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Topic Starter Topic: AEtour - Beta 3 - d/l (2nd update)
AEon
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PostPosted: 05-17-2006 10:13 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AEon's Tourney - a FFA / 1on1 map for Q3A

    This map's layout was created by Wildfly (fellow mHs clan member currently working on the Q4 version of the map). Initially designed as Tourney 1on1 map, but I usually play against 3 bots on Hardcore in FFA... that is kinda fun as well.



Original Sketch & Q4 Preview by Wildfly
    Image
    Image

    The layout is basically 3 concentric rings... and I wanted to find out if a map mostly made of patches could be built. This is the result of 4 days work. Hint brushes improve visibility plus the caulk hull I "squeezed" between the patches.


Current Q3A Screenshots for Beta 1
    Image


Items
    Other than the MH, RA, YA and Rail, most of the other items have been liberally scattered by myself. Some feedback on better placement would be nice. The Quad is in there for fun, will probably be removed.

List: Weapons/Items
    RG, RL, SGx2, PG, GL, RA, YAx2, MH, and Quad (lots of health and ammo).

Clipping
    I have clipped off all the windows, and the "sculpture", and the boxes but everything else still needs clipping. Especially the top of the map.

Deco
    I want to add more glow (light shaders), do decorate the drab walls.

Download
    Get latest beta later in thread.

Todo
  • Clean up the pk3, remove useless files.
  • Add more visuals.
  • Optimize item placement.
  • Full player and bot clipping.
  • Fix lighting.
  • Fix ugly triangle patches near windows.

As always feedback welcome.




Last edited by AEon on 06-21-2006 03:40 AM, edited 5 times in total.
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Foo
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PostPosted: 05-17-2006 10:20 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Quality. If we can get this up on hex's server (where the geocomp maps are rotating) we can jump on and play some rounds?



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PostPosted: 05-17-2006 10:21 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Would be nice, needs to be early though, biology final tomorrow.

Edit: Nice map, I'm seeing the skybox's lines though. Nvidia gf 5200
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corsair
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PostPosted: 05-17-2006 10:51 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


just downloaded - Ive got to install quake3 though cause I formatted a few days ago, looks like a cool small map. The layout kinda reminds me of one I drew myself;

http://corsair.planetquake.gamespy.com/tsmk/lyut5nl.jpg

^^ that one
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AEon
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PostPosted: 05-17-2006 11:05 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


corsair,
I love sketches, nice. Did that ever make it into a map?

Wildfly based his initial idea on q2dm1, and the inner arena sorta reminds one of it. Only this time we have gone all the way "round" :)


Skybox... alas I have the same problem on my ATI X800, and always have. IIRC that was some "complicated" way to use a "model" that would actually fix the problem?

Code:
q3map2.exe -v -meta -skyfix


Alas does not fix the problem.
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Lenard
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PostPosted: 05-17-2006 11:18 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Looks like it could be a really fun fast n furious tourney map. BUT your ya's are too close together and this happens:

Image



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AEon
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PostPosted: 05-17-2006 12:14 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I suppose you jumped right out of the map with a Quad-Rocket-Jump :)... later on all that will be clipped off. You can presently do some interesting roof-walking if you want.

The YAs, right... still thinking what to do about that.

Sculpture... just played against 3 bots on hardcore 2 x 100 frags, and noted the clipping I did on the sculpture still throws you off, and the bots do not get it at all. Hmmm... will probably need to change that... maybe add a central JP in the middle of the map, a tube that goes through the top platform... Plasma is another issue. Hmmm...

Other than that it was actually fun, if I dare say so... quick mapping rules :)
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Foo
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PostPosted: 05-17-2006 12:37 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Played a 15-min CPMA game. The demo for which is here:
http://www.quake4world.com/junk/Foo(POV)-vs-JXN-aetour-2006.05.17-21.17.43.zip

The main issues feedback was:

* Item positioning is poor. The RA is in a pretty good place but the YAs are too close to each other, and there needs to be another rocket launcher.

* The PG is pretty useless. The level is way too open for it to be much use in any situation. LG would work better.

* Central area is very, very big and you can control everything from the rail platform

Suggestions for development were:
* 2 rocket launchers not one. One of them where the rail is, one of them near the MH
* Current RA room is very flat and open, and the 2 entrances to the room that are close together both face in on the same direction which makes for a crappy area to fight in. Perhaps the route from the MH could come in a bit higher with the RA placed back against the opposite wall instead.
* Main room is very open and pretty much a shooting gallery. The teleporter nook doesn't let you escape so there's an entire corner of the level where you can get badly hemmed in, only there's no good item there to attract you. Would suggest re-thinking the teleporter arrangement so there's some kind of exit point in that area of the room as well. Perhaps flip the ramp that leads to the MH room so it comes up from around that area instead.



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AEon
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PostPosted: 05-17-2006 01:11 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Quote:
Foo:
* Item positioning is poor. The RA is in a pretty good place but the YAs are too close to each other, and there needs to be another rocket launcher.
* The PG is pretty useless. The level is way too open for it to be much use in any situation. LG would work better.
* Central area is very, very big and you can control everything from the rail platform


  • YAs, right... the initial idea was to to balance the RA with 2xYA. Move the MH into the other corner of the room, and where the MH is place a YA.
  • 2nd RL... hmmm... noted that the PG is pretty useless as well. I play RG most of the time and SG, and ironically for the first time the GL as well.
  • Had hoped the central area would be made smaller with the sculpture. IMO that worked in part. Problem is the bots love the central area, making it a very strong focal point.

Quote:
Suggestions for development were:
* 2 rocket launchers not one. One of them where the rail is, one of them near the MH
* Current RA room is very flat and open, and the 2 entrances to the room that are close together both face in on the same direction which makes for a crappy area to fight in. Perhaps the route from the MH could come in a bit higher with the RA placed back against the opposite wall instead.
* Main room is very open and pretty much a shooting gallery. The teleporter nook doesn't let you escape so there's an entire corner of the level where you can get badly hemmed in, only there's no good item there to attract you. Would suggest re-thinking the teleporter arrangement so there's some kind of exit point in that area of the room as well. Perhaps flip the ramp that leads to the MH room so it comes up from around that area instead.


  • 2 RLs... ok. Kick the Plasma. But where does the RG go?
  • Personally I hate the LG, mainly because only folks with really low ping are good with it. Or possibly I just don't get that weapon. I found the LG pretty useless in Q4 as well.
  • Flat RA room... ironic, I added the ramped floor, but that was not enough as it seems ;).... Maybe ramp the floor downwards in the middle ring, to another TP.
  • Entrance to RA room from PG, move that higher, jo will do that you are right. That will move the JP closer to the room. Place RA boxes into other corner ok.
  • "TP escape": Noted that as well. The TP does not actually get you out of trouble. Fun as it may be. A TP destination in the MH room (a corner might be a better idea.
  • That makes me wonder if a second teleporter might be spiffy. One that uses the current TP destination. Maybe in the RA room.
  • The main area's teleporter, possibly put the RG there instead.
  • I'd prefer not to flip the ramp though.


Foo, what do you think of my suggestions? IMO with two teleporters that may make the map even faster, plus add a few more paths.

If others find the ideas ok, I'll start the changes tomorrow.

And the cycle of map changes begins :)
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Foo
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PostPosted: 05-17-2006 01:31 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AEon wrote:
  • YAs, right... the initial idea was to to balance the RA with 2xYA. Move the MH into the other corner of the room, and where the MH is place a YA.


Balancing the RA with 2YAs will work, but you need to make sure the down player must work hard to get both armors, and also ensure that the up player can't guard both of them easily as he can in this case. Both YAs require the player to become badly vulnerable for a long time to grab either one of them.

I'd be tempted to try a 2 YA no RA layout... the level is already well stacked with the MH being there as well. I dunno... these are the kinds of changes where I'd play the map 20 times and move things around each time until I was comfortable.

Quote:
  • 2nd RL... hmmm... noted that the PG is pretty useless as well. I play RG most of the time and SG, and ironically for the first time the GL as well.


    • GL works well in this map for checking the opponent, for example you can throw them towards the railgun from the central area and get the player exiting the RA room.

    Quote:
  • Had hoped the central area would be made smaller with the sculpture. IMO that worked in part. Problem is the bots love the central area, making it a very strong focal point.


    • You could shrink the central area a little more by bulking out the walls in other areas... the end result would be the central area closing in uniformly all round by perhaps 64-128 units all round. That'd definitely help.

    Quote:
    • 2 RLs... ok. Kick the Plasma. But where does the RG go?

    After the other changes suggested we'd have to try another round to see how it played before suggesting a good spot. It would probably fit well down where the teleporter is currently.

    Quote:
  • Personally I hate the LG, mainly because only folks with really low ping are good with it. Or possibly I just don't get that weapon. I found the LG pretty useless in Q4 as well.


    • It's not critical, I guess. The dynamic in CPMA is a bit different and the LG would become a more significant weapon on this level due to its open nature.

    Quote:
  • Flat RA room... ironic, I added the ramped floor, but that was not enough as it seems ;).... Maybe ramp the floor downwards in the middle ring, to another TP.

    • The core issue with the RA room was both being on the ground with RLs and having long drawn out rocket fights becuase there wasn't much to bounce the rocket shots onto except the ground. This can work when players are able to get vertical distance from the ground (jumppads - see Q3DM17 or any rocket arena level) but when you're both strapped to the ground with no means of going upwards nearby the fight gets frustrating. Moving the MH jumppad closer into this room may well solve this problem by accident:

    Quote:
  • Entrance to RA room from PG, move that higher, jo will do that you are right. That will move the JP closer to the room. Place RA boxes into other corner ok.

    Quote:
  • "TP escape": Noted that as well. The TP does not actually get you out of trouble. Fun as it may be. A TP destination in the MH room (a corner might be a better idea.
  • That makes me wonder if a second teleporter might be spiffy. One that uses the current TP destination. Maybe in the RA room.
  • The main area's teleporter, possibly put the RG there instead.
  • I'd prefer not to flip the ramp though.



    • If you flip the ramp, it has the following effects:
    1. You get an exit from the current dead area below the Railgun perch
    2. You can place your second teleporter in the area the ramp used to reach down to.
    3. You get rid of this redundancy:
    Image

    I'd like to try the level again after you've made some changes, then we might be able to come up with a host of new or different suggestions and we'll probably find that some of the changes we thought would work, didnt.

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    corsair
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    PostPosted: 05-17-2006 03:01 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    I've taken a look at it in free for all, cause 1v1 with bots dont give a clear picture anyway - From what I've read here in a quicky the two yellows may be too close together, which is nonsense I think, its morely a very good decision cause one wouldn't think of it that easy, for they're indeed very close to eachother :]

    I suggest leaving every item as it is, untill you've played several tense 1v1 games online.

    I like the map, and it's quite much as I expected it to be from the shots. A few things appeared to me;

    - The jumppad in the mid that launches to yellow and quad (i didnt look at the shot very well apparently, for I didnt see the hovering items) ; I expected the 'sadistic' part of the stairway to the items to be the only one, instead of an additional incredible risky towards a mere yellow armor (and quad, but that wont be there in 1v1 I take)

    - You've got two vertical jumppads in the outer rims of your map, which quite suprised me. I think you should consider adjusting them so that one is launched diagonaly, somewhere in between what launchpads and jumppads do, so to keep the speed in the game, and give the player better sight at where he is heading too.

    I know I said that it might be best to leave the items as they are now, but that might be the worst suggestion ever. This is how I'd alter the placement;

    first; get rid of the middle jumppad, put the yellow on top of it, instead of in mid air

    second, (depending on whether armorshard/smallhealth respawn is the same as that of the YA); add shards/smallhealth on the way to the top, so that a non-timing player can still jump towards taking the first step to the top, when he sees a shard spawning.

    third; replace the other YA with the quad. This is something personal, I myself am not too big a fan of centralised quad locations, for they bring in the item into battle too easily. The edge where the YA resides, could be a good alternative quad location, although I could be terribly wrong. thats for FFA, for 1v1cpma you could add the green armor there, for vq3-1v1 you might wanna add another weapon and/or a +50hp. (just writing meh thoughts here, hope you dont mind : p)

    fourth; nah, Ill leave it with these three, they're probably all bollox anyway. I'm going to stick with my suggestion - keep it as it is, its good fun :)


    oh, and about that layout of mine, It never made it into a map, I do have it as a caulk hull though. It was destined to be a q3 map, just before the release of quake4, I was busy at the time, and then, bang, the q4 release. I immediately started mapping for it, and now still, I'm working on the very same map that I started back then. (its nearing completion though, perhaps a beta in a few weeks, possibly a month) :D
    (if yer interested, and havent seen it yet, there's a few screenies of it in the screenies thread ; http://www.quake3world.com/forum/viewto ... art=1190#5 (somewhere at 1/3th of the page))
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    AEon
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    PostPosted: 05-17-2006 03:43 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    Foo,
    that idea with flipping the ramp, possibly a candidate for beta 3, once the other changes show that they are not enough. The redundancy you pointed out is interesting. I was wondering why some parts of the map are kinda boring, but I just could not put the finger on it.

    Personally, anthing that add to the gameplay possibilities, thus making the layout interesting is "good" in my book.
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    AEon
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    PostPosted: 05-17-2006 04:17 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    corsair wrote:
    From what I've read here in a quicky the two yellows may be too close together, which is nonsense I think, its morely a very good decision cause one wouldn't think of it that easy, for they're indeed very close to eachother :]


    In general things that don't fit the first time at times may turn out to be quite interesting. It took me many hours to somewhat understand Q4DM1, same with Q3DM17 (instagib only that is), or Q3DM7.

    With the suggestions to make the central area less large... I might build a 4th ring in patches, just to see what that leads to.


    Quote:
    I suggest leaving every item as it is, until you've played several tense 1v1 games online.


    My problem is I *hate* 1on1 :)... one guy - usually not me for sure - knows the map ad nauseum, and the other player is made his bitch. Since my maps never made it into any competitive mods, one can just as well make them fun. Good point to take it slow.


    Quote:
    - The jumppad in the mid that launches to yellow and quad (i didnt look at the shot very well apparently, for I didnt see the hovering items) ; I expected the 'sadistic' part of the stairway to the items to be the only one, instead of an additional incredible risky towards a mere yellow armor (and quad, but that wont be there in 1v1 I take)


    Hehe... it actually takes skill to get to the "sculptures top"... well... from the bottom of the arena. I am not much of a strafe jumper but from the GL area and the RG you can actually reach the top level. I'd like something like that to stay in the center of the map, 2-3 ways to get at something special in the maps center, maybe the RA or simply as you suggest further down a YA. Though I still like the Quad.

    If I am not mistaken the items can be changed for FFA vs. Tourney, right? Never did that. So the FFA e.g. could keep the Quad, whereas Tourney would loose it.


    Quote:
    - You've got two vertical jumppads in the outer rims of your map, which quite suprised me. I think you should consider adjusting them so that one is launched diagonaly, somewhere in between what launchpads and jumppads do, so to keep the speed in the game, and give the player better sight at where he is heading too.


    Ahh... right... the JP to the MH will go up less, in the next version. Will keep you comment in mind.

    In Q4 I'd use ramps (and Ramp Jumps)... alas in Q3A my crummy strafe jumping always slows be down on ramps.


    Quote:
    first; get rid of the middle jumppad, put the yellow on top of it, instead of in mid air


    Had the Quad there for a compile, the bots loved that :)


    Quote:
    second, (depending on whether armorshard/smallhealth respawn is the same as that of the YA); add shards/smallhealth on the way to the top, so that a non-timing player can still jump towards taking the first step to the top, when he sees a shard spawning.


    Woha... wild :)... Would one not see the YA from most of the map? But interesting idea, never thought of using shards/small healths as "timers". Presently I like the 50 health (much like in q4dm1) because if you need health it's an useful amount. That was the reason I don't use 25 health. The small healths are more like acustic pointers, that could be more important for 1on1 though.


    Quote:
    third; replace the other YA with the quad. This is something personal, I myself am not too big a fan of centralised quad locations, for they bring in the item into battle too easily. The edge where the YA resides, could be a good alternative quad location, although I could be terribly wrong. thats for FFA, for 1v1cpma you could add the green armor there, for vq3-1v1 you might wanna add another weapon and/or a +50hp. (just writing meh thoughts here, hope you dont mind : p)


    Ahh... interesting... I usually fall for things done often, like central Quad. I noted when playing, that it is actually almost a "skill" to get the YA next (lower down) to the RG. I tend to fall right past that ledge. The bots on the other hand love the ledge. I like the idea of placing the Quad there. Noted.

    Quote:
    fourth; nah, Ill leave it with these three, they're probably all bollox anyway. I'm going to stick with my suggestion - keep it as it is, its good fun :)


    Hehe... I am still thinking of changing the design of the central area. We'll see how that goes in the next version. Since I am in mapping mode, there will probably me a new version out tomorrow evening :p


    Quote:
    oh, and about that layout of mine, It never made it into a map, I do have it as a caulk hull though. It was destined to be a q3 map, just before the release of quake4, I was busy at the time, and then, bang, the q4 release. I immediately started mapping for it, and now still, I'm working on the very same map that I started back then. (its nearing completion though, perhaps a beta in a few weeks, possibly a month) :D


    Aha... pity ;)... had almost hoped it had not been done. Would have been a fun project to place the sketch into the editor as background image (IIRC GTKradiant 1.4 let you do that), trace the sketch and build a "quick" map. Quite a large FFA map, 7 bots would have a hard time seeing each other if I read the sketch correctly.

    Quote:
    (if yer interested, and havent seen it yet, there's a few screenies of it in the screenies thread ;


    Very beautiful lighting. All those textures come as a bit of a shock though, for simple "all in grays" me 8-)

    Ironic that all the mapping ideas, I'd prefer to do in Q3A, mainly because of the bots and the fun playing against them.
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    Foo
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    PostPosted: 05-17-2006 04:43 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    corsair wrote:
    - You've got two vertical jumppads in the outer rims of your map, which quite suprised me. I think you should consider adjusting them so that one is launched diagonaly, somewhere in between what launchpads and jumppads do, so to keep the speed in the game, and give the player better sight at where he is heading too.


    Just wanted to discuss this because it caught my eye.

    One think I was going to mention about the map is that the central area causes the outer ring to feel a bit too overextended... It feels like there's some dead areas (the long MH room center especially), and perhaps an accelerator pad bridging some of this space would solve that.

    Give me a few mins, I'll see if I can rustle up an illustration.



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    Foo
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    PostPosted: 05-17-2006 05:07 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    Right, some theory, 'cause I love theory.

    Image

    This incredibly bad diagram shows the routes around the map. The stars represent areas of contention, or where fights are going to break out because several routes converge.

    From this we can see a few things:
    * Contention areas #2 and '3 occur where there is a 180-degree meeting of doorways (2 routes come into the same room on the same vertical level and in the exact same direction). Conventional deathmatch theory would consider this to be a bad trait as you get standoffs without very few options as to how you can play the situation.
    * The red armor sits right on a point of contention. This is probably why the placement felt correct when we played the map.
    * Point number 4 has only 2 routes in, but 3 routes out and a clear view across area #1, which makes it interesting. It might be overpowered, or it might be a 'quirky' area. Any good tourney map needs one or two 'quirky' areas to make it interesting.
    * The long route between #2 and #3 is very isolated. It stands out on this diagram as the longest line with nothing interesting along it.

    Gimme a bit longer and I'll come up with some more nonsense...



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    Last edited by Foo on 05-17-2006 05:29 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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    Foo
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    PostPosted: 05-17-2006 05:27 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    Consider the following 2 adjustments:
    Image
    The blue arrow represents an accelerator pad placed between the current RA room and the current MH room.

    The green arrow is the original main room accelerator pad, but now it goes straight across the room to the current rail ledge instead.

    The end result is something like this:
    Image

    * #4 becomes a more interesting location since it gets 3 routes in.
    * You get a new area, #5. Assuming the current MH area provides a ramp to get up to where the jumppad takes you across to the railgun, this would produce an area with 3 routes in (from #3, from #2 and teleporter) and 2 routes out (across to rail or up towards #3).
    * The long dead section previously on the MH route how has a new area in it, and the corner corridor is sped up by a jumppad.
    * The main room teleporter now acts as a legitimate escape route


    Right, insane rantings over. If you understood any of this then fair play to you. I suck at diagrams.



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    AEon
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    PostPosted: 05-18-2006 12:23 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    Foo wrote:
    Right, some theory, 'cause I love theory.
    Image


    Hehe... nice diagram... such "sketches" usually make things a *lot* clearer.
    • I certainly agree about the longest path between 2 and 3,
      maybe add a second break in the wall to build something like a 2nd RG pad. Though that could make the central arena even more frantic.
    • "#2 and #3 occur where there is a 180-degree meeting of doorways"... Personally I like #3, because they converge into a doorway where the GL is.

      But #2 indeed needs work.
    • "Point number 4 has only 2 routes in, but 3 routes"... actually it has or will have 4 ways out... 2 doors, one jump into the central arena and one right onto the TP ramp.

      Probably the reason this area is so interesting to camp at :)


    I'll probably start sketching out a few ideas later.

    Note: The map is in 1/16th ring increments. And I will not change that because it would be a really really painful thing to do, so there are some limits to what "creative" control one has. This is probably the reason why 2 to 3 vs. 2 to 1 to 3 have such simular paths.
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    AEon
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    PostPosted: 05-18-2006 01:37 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    Foo wrote:
    Image


    The blue arrow represents an accelerator pad...
    Hmm... that is a 3 segment 3/4 * 90° acceleration section. No idea how flying around bends is supposed to work.

    The green arrow is the original main room accelerator pad, but now it goes straight across the room to the current rail ledge instead.
    If the RG stays on the ledge, that would be hilarious to rail folks flying towards you.


    Foo wrote:
    Image


    #4 becomes a more interesting location since it gets 3 routes in.
    Might almost get too much attention, it already is a vantage point on the central arena though.

    You get a new area, #5.
    I like that idea.

    The outer ring where the MH is could be a ramp up to a ledge for the Acceleration Pad (AP), and the segment to the right (of the boxes could go down, to let the player pass under 5.

    I am not sure about letting the player actually access 5 when that area is connected to the TP.


    The long dead section previously on the MH route how has a new area in it, and the corner corridor is sped up by a jumppad.
    Not sure how to do that around a bend. Several triggers may be confusing for the player, though it would be a novelty in a map.

    Just noted that would also make that area a one way street, right?

    Quote:
    I suck at diagrams.


    Actually they are quite good :)... mine on the other hand ;)


    What I wanted to try is this:
    Image

    Get more flow into the way the teleporters move you across the map.

      a) The segment to the right of boxes goes down, to the new lower level b) height.

      b) and a) now intrude more into the corridor and the JP would have to go up less. b) could also be a pit, with JP1 turned into a AP (as Foo suggested), one way run flow though.

      c) Above a) a break in the wall could add another access to the arena.

      d) Central "sculpture" will have a "flat" rounded top with YA (possibly RA).

      e) Now is the desination of the TP1 (where the RA presently is), RA into other corner.

      f) RL moved into middle of room, ramp in floor "middle" moved down into TP2 "pit". TP2 used the original AP.

    This way you could flee via TP1 keep running if you like into TP2 and via AP move about quite a bit in the map, if you wanted. Needs some more stream-lining I fear.

    Anarchy! ;)




    Last edited by AEon on 06-21-2006 03:42 AM, edited 2 times in total.
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    Oeloe
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    PostPosted: 05-18-2006 03:32 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    AEon wrote:
    Hmm... that is a 3 segment 3/4 * 90° acceleration section. No idea how flying around bends is supposed to work.
    Just by gliding along a curved piece of architecture (patch).
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    AEon
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    PostPosted: 05-18-2006 04:24 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    Ahh... yeah that would work.

    Presently I am using a much flatter JP in that area. But the idea of "gliding along patches" could be interesting.


    c) not only is a hole in the wall, but also has an acceleration pad that allows for jumps over to the RG, like Foo suggested. Keeping the other AP though.

    Almost done with all the changes, working on TP2 now.

    Map already looks a lot more interesting. But more changes are inevitable.
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    AEon
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    PostPosted: 05-18-2006 09:44 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    AEon's Tourney - Beta 2 - a FFA / 1on1 map for Q3A


    Current Q3A Screenshots for Beta 2
      Image

    Weapons/Items
      RG, RLx2, SGx2, GL, RA, YAx2, MH, and Quad (plus lots of health and ammo).

    Changes since Beta 1
    • Near MH boxes added a new ledge to main arena. (Foo)
    • Move MH on ledge, accessible via boxes. (Foo)
    • Ledge has AP2 to old RG position. (Foo)
    • TP1 has a small windowed room for RG.
    • TP1 destination in RA room.
    • TP2 added in RA room, leads to old AP.
    • Central pad changed, has YA on it. (Corsair)
    • YA below RG now has Quad. (Corsair)
    • RG replaced by second RL. (Foo)
    • JP1 now jumps up less high, forward run flow better. (Corsair)
    • 2nd YA under new ledge and MH.
    • Removed window next to JP2 (towards old RG).
    • PG removed. (Foo)

    Download
      Get latest beta later in the thread.

    Todo
    • Clean up the pk3, remove useless files.
    • Add more visuals / Deco glow.
    • Optimize item placement.
    • Full player and bot clipping.
    • Optimize lighting.
    • Fix ugly triangle patches near windows. (Done mostly)

    As always feedback welcome.

    P.S. Not quite sure if this merits a new thread. Usually I'd open a new one, but in this case... oh well :)




    Last edited by AEon on 06-21-2006 03:42 AM, edited 2 times in total.
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    Fjoggs
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    PostPosted: 05-18-2006 09:50 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    Let's see. You want competitive tournament feedback right?
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    Foo
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    PostPosted: 05-18-2006 10:33 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    Just played a half-round but initial feedback is:

    * We were playing on regular Q3 this time, and the RA and YA being so close together feels too strong.
    * new MH ledge is good, though the side facing off towards the RA needs blocking off, it's too strong. It also perhaps needs a better route up than just some boxes.
    * Central pillar structure is good, still looks a bit flimsy with the top bit wider than the rest of it.
    * old accelerator pad seems redundant now.
    * The teleporters being so close together (exit one, enter the new set) means you can cover most of the map in only a few short moves.

    Game played pretty fast for vanilla Q3 tho... The amount of time you spend in view of the other player feels about right, although invariably you're quite a long distance from each other and the only effective weapon currently is the railgun for that. I still think it needs an LG, I went reaching for it many times.



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    AEon
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    PostPosted: 05-18-2006 11:09 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    Foo,
    the RA and YA being so close together feels too strong.

    Played 2x100 frags against the hardcore bots.

    Moving the YA to the other side of the map - path between GL and upper RL - that corridor is not often frequented.


    ...new MH ledge is good, though the side facing off towards the RA needs blocking off, it's too strong. It also perhaps needs a better route up than just some boxes.

    I was thinking about blocking off one side. Since I never jumped down on that side, I always take the AP to the RL. Will block off. A better route, I was thinking of adding a third TP (where the small boxes in the GL room are), that exits up on that ledge.

    What I really really like doing is the teleport and jumppad run... lower TP, RA, TP2, over to GL, a TP3 would then finish the loop to AP2 (where the MH is).

    I bet nobody plays like that, but I love the jumping ;)


    Central pillar structure is good, still looks a bit flimsy with the top bit wider than the rest of it.

    Yo... I had the idea to turn it into a cut off cone. And using some clever player clip to add "steep stairs" on all sides. That way the bots should be able to reach the top if the pillar from the arena floor.


    Old accelerator pad seems redundant now.

    Hmm... sorta. But I love that AP... Especially following a bot with a railgun, and shooting it in flight with the RG ;)


    The teleporters being so close together (exit one, enter the new set) means you can cover most of the map in only a few short moves.

    That was the idea :)


    ...railgun for that. I still think it needs an LG, I went reaching for it many times.

    Personally it took me quite a while to *not* find the RG up on its old ledge. The RL there is OK... sorta. I definitely played the RG a lot less in beta 2. Used to be RG 80% of the time in beta 1, now about 40%.

    Bots seem to take more clever paths now. I have a bot attract in both TPs and the AP (next to the MH).

    The roundish corridor under the MH, the one you wanted to have a AP catapult you around the corner, could be a good idea, once the YA there is gone.

    Suggest where to put the LG and I'll give that a try.

    I never added TPs to my maps, but here I definitely love them :p
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    Oeloe
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    PostPosted: 05-18-2006 01:05 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    The map is a bit more interesting now. Although i haven't played it yet it feels that connectivity is still lacking.

    I don't understand how you managed to get those skybox lines in btw. I still see them (not the usual black lines though) with conformant texture clamp off on my GF 6800GS...
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    AEon
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    PostPosted: 05-18-2006 01:31 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    Oeloe wrote:
    I don't understand how you managed to get those skybox lines in btw. I still see them (not the usual black lines though) with conformant texture clamp off on my GF 6800GS...


    They never were gone on ATi cards, supposedly Nvidia was doing something "wrong" in OpenGL, that fixed that problem. But the new cards seems to have the same problem now.
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    Oeloe
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    PostPosted: 05-18-2006 02:10 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    I know, i've had (still have) ATi cards. On other maps with real skyboxes (lika your map aesafe) i don't see skybox lines, so something must be up with the skybox in aetour.
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    AEon
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    PostPosted: 05-18-2006 03:10 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    Are you sure... that's very weird since I have been using the same q3map2 options since aesafe etc... and there I seem to remember the same lines as well. Very strange.
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    Oeloe
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    PostPosted: 05-19-2006 12:57 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    Just to be clear: the lines are there on aesafe on ATi cards and my GF6800 too, unless i disable conformant texture clamp. IIRC that was an openGL function that nVidia used in a wrong way, which id compensated for in the engine. Sadly the icculus build doesn't fully fix the problem, the lines are still vaguely visible (not if you zoom in on them for some reason). Hopefully they addressed it in a more recent build...

    But perhaps it's the -skyfix that causes the lines to show up, because that parameter isn't enough to make the lines disappear. Try compiling without it. Otherwise it must be something Hipshot did to his skybox textures?
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    AEon
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    PostPosted: 05-19-2006 04:22 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    Will try a compile without the -skyfix option for beta3.
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    AEon
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    PostPosted: 05-31-2006 10:17 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    Anyone have a nice suggestion for a skybox?

    Orangy... the one I am presently using I want to use for AEglow at some point.

    [Edit] Found one... using Hipshot's Stormydays.
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    Hipshot
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    PostPosted: 05-31-2006 01:10 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    I have a unrealsed sky that you might like, I haven't used it yet because the map I made it for was set to hold for a while. However, if you want you may use it. Pm me if so...

    http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/469/ ... re12dr.jpg

    full res sample

    http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/9762 ... 6009pq.jpg


    (Edit: Maybe it will fit the DM7 better(?))
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    wviperw
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    PostPosted: 05-31-2006 01:34 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    I liked the very circular flow going on, but I didn't like all the vertical jumppads slowing you down. Also, the top of the level needs to be ramped steeper so you can't play around up there and it also needs player clip so players can't jump outside of the level.



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    AEon
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    PostPosted: 05-31-2006 02:15 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    wviperw wrote:
    I liked the very circular flow going on, but I didn't like all the vertical jumppads slowing you down. Also, the top of the level needs to be ramped steeper so you can't play around up there and it also needs player clip so players can't jump outside of the level.


    Hmm... about the vertical jumppads, since there is only one left, IMO that one case should be ok. The other vertical JP is almost a AP since it is so flat.

    The top of the map, if I read that correctly, simply needs to be totally clipped off. You will not be able to walk around up there at all, once I get to it. The "holes" in the roof, I am still debating with myself, they would let you get into the outer corridors from the arena via Rocket Jump.


    While I am at it, a current shot of the Arena (lighting too bright at present):
      Image



    Hipshot,
    yo, I seem to remember Tempest? Nice skybox. See how you like your skybox I am currently using (in Beta 3), gives the map that more peaceful feel IMO.




    Last edited by AEon on 06-21-2006 03:42 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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    wviperw
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    PostPosted: 05-31-2006 04:14 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


    Hmm, well I remember at least one tall JP and then there was an annoying short one that didn't really make any sense to have in since you could just put a ramp/stairs there.

    Regarding clipping the top of the map, be careful not to clip too much. Clipping should generally match the visual so if it looks like a player should be able to RJ over the wall to trick his opponent then he should be able to. Also, with those ramped edges up top I was saying make them steeper because it'd be more fun to get launched up to the top (say your opponent hits a midair rox while you're coming out of the tele) and to kind of slide down the ramps rather than hitting an invisible wall.



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