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Topic Starter Topic: Frostbite [pre-alpha] by Scorch_
Scorch_
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PostPosted: 08-08-2014 12:35 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


This is a smallish duel map with the intent of fast game play much like aerowalk and toxicity with the theme of the map being a cold / winter environment similar to that of coldwar and siberia though its early enough in development that I might change the theme later on. Right now my primary focus is getting the layout, flow, and major placement right so no detail has been added to the map yet (other then the floating bridge).

Image

Image

Download

Feedback
some specific things I'm looking for feedback on are
  • Flow of the map
  • over all layout and position of the major items
  • pathing from the the first floor to the second floor
  • the ice (while I think the ice is a unique hazard not seen on many other maps I'm not sure how much it would affect gameplay and have considered removing it)

lastly a few notes in a later build of the map I plan on putter a mound of snow under the MH but I've yet to get around to that I'm also aware of this brush error and will fix that as well in a later verison.




Last edited by Scorch_ on 08-08-2014 02:17 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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KittenIgnition
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PostPosted: 08-08-2014 12:48 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'd like to test your map, but the bsp is giving me an error I've never seen before :(

ERROR: SHADER_MAX_VERTEXES hit in FillCloudySkySide()
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Scorch_
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PostPosted: 08-08-2014 02:23 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


KittenIgnition wrote:
I'd like to test your map, but the bsp is giving me an error I've never seen before :(

ERROR: SHADER_MAX_VERTEXES hit in FillCloudySkySide()


I've also never seen that error before after doing some googling it seems to have something to do with the sky shader but since it works fine for me in both ql and wolfcam I'm not really 100% sure what the problem is and how to fix it. I played around with the sky a bit and reuploaded it so maybe give it a try now if that fails you could always try it out in wolfcam.
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AEon
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PostPosted: 08-08-2014 08:34 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


A few things I noted:

  • The use of shaders that make areas slippery, like e.g. ice, is pretty rarely used. Your central yard makes massive use of this feature. Personally I find it annoying to keep sliding into a wall, when trying to go somewhere else. Well, one could see it as a form of skill one needs to learn, maybe.
  • The ice under the MH is fine.
  • Since this is very early in your build, a tip: Be very careful with off-grid brushwork. Your brush approximation of a circle in all the moon-gate doorways is presently showing gaps, especially for the one with the vertical grating. I love those doorways, but you may need to cleanly rebuild them on-grid, or experiment using bent patches for them. The small round window is showing the worst brush gaps, it should be simple to create using patches instead.
  • When on the upper floor, running from the RA to the RL, continuing, you run into a dead end wall, the exit of your TP. Only way to continue is to jump down to the round window. This badly breaks up the flow of the map IMO here.
  • Several windows of the upper floor, but even the round window, I would expect you have the chance to jump through them, not presently.
  • I love the area around and above the MH.
  • On the upper floor I do feel that the ceiling is too low. Maybe break out some more of the ceiling to expose sky to make it less claustrophobic, or lift the ceiling somewhat.

This very early on in the design, so it is pretty difficult to make meaningful comments. Hmm...

But what is there feels like it could turn into an interesting very compact map.
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Scorch_
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PostPosted: 08-09-2014 12:56 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thanks for the feedback

AEon wrote:
  • The use of shaders that make areas slippery, like e.g. ice, is pretty rarely used. Your central yard makes massive use of this feature. Personally I find it annoying to keep sliding into a wall, when trying to go somewhere else. Well, one could see it as a form of skill one needs to learn, maybe.

concerning the ice in the main area I've added some more snow so hopefully its less annoying to move around in now and I can always add more but I don't want to add to much I think that I will have to find the right balance for this.

AEon wrote:
  • Since this is very early in your build, a tip: Be very careful with off-grid brushwork. Your brush approximation of a circle in all the moon-gate doorways is presently showing gaps, especially for the one with the vertical grating. I love those doorways, but you may need to cleanly rebuild them on-grid, or experiment using bent patches for them. The small round window is showing the worst brush gaps, it should be simple to create using patches instead.

Much like the other brush issue I pointed out in my first post I'm also aware of this odds are I will have to rebuild them using patches as you said but that will be something I do in a later version.

AEon wrote:
  • Several windows of the upper floor, but even the round window, I would expect you have the chance to jump through them, not presently.

This was intentional I planed on adding some detail to them later that would make them thinner then they currently are so I made the space for them a bit wider.


AEon wrote:
  • On the upper floor I do feel that the ceiling is too low. Maybe break out some more of the ceiling to expose sky to make it less claustrophobic, or lift the ceiling somewhat.

The ceiling I had in place was just temporary to make the map feel a bit more filled out I should have noted that in my first post but since you brought it up I've done a bit of work on it by the ra and the upper windows to make it a bit less claustrophobic let me know what you think.


AEon wrote:
  • When on the upper floor, running from the RA to the RL, continuing, you run into a dead end wall, the exit of your TP. Only way to continue is to jump down to the round window. This badly breaks up the flow of the map IMO here.


I 100% agree with this so what I've decided to do is close the hole from the 2nd to 1st floor then make a new hole in the wall right above the stair case leading up to the 2nd floor. This allows you to jump down to the stair case rather then just coming to a dead end completing the upper level circle.

Image

Image

Two things worth bring up though the first is that the hole is not detailed in a later version I've thought about making it a large circle window like door ways and the one in the main area or I could make look as if the wall was blown up I have a few options for this and I'm not sure which would be best right now so I just left as just a square hole.

The second is that while I like opening in the wall and it helps the flow of the map it also causes this side of the map to be a high traffic area with the stairs, the hole in the wall, the teleporter below, and the MH near by I feel as if you could maybe control / see to much of the map from this spot.

An alternative idea I had to the hole in the wall was having a teleporter where the dead end was that would take you to the other side this would make this spot a bit less powerful but would only allow for a clock wise circle on the upper part of the map I also felt while testing it that going through the teleporter was a bit more disorienting then the hole in the wall was.

Now both of these solutions come with another problem which is the lower teleporter this one was a bit of an easier problem to fix though I used some previously empty space by the jump pad to create a aerowalk like teleporter exit that allows you to get up to the second floor if you come out of it correctly.

Sorry about the wall of text but I just wanted to make sure I addressed everything below is a download link to the new version of the map as well as some things I would like feedback on


Download

Feedback
  • The amount of snow in the main area
  • The stair area including the hole in the wall above them
  • The new lower teleporter exit
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AEon
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PostPosted: 08-09-2014 08:33 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The problem I see with the hole as it is, are bots, they would need to jump to get through it and won't do that.

I did not suggest another TP since the map already had one, and because the map is so small only one TP at the most should be used IMO.

Since I really like the MH area (both floors), maybe something like that can be used on the other side of the map. Maybe try introducing a 3rd level to the map for a bit of extra hight.

Played v1.1:

  • The hole in the wall actually works rather well. Maybe still add steps for the bots.
  • Cutting into the ceiling looks a lot nicer now.
  • I wanted to ask if the TP exit is some strange TP-trick-jump... I actually was able to pull off such a jump for the first time... so yes it is. Personally I am not a fan of such jumps, especially since bots cannot perform such jumps.
  • On the RA level, the bend, I always try to jump across the ice yard below, and fail. Your floating bridge might be placed in the gap as a shortcut?
  • The JP feels a bit awkward... not sure what to do about that though.
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Scorch_
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PostPosted: 08-15-2014 07:12 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thanks again for the feedback here is a new version of my map I would go over whats changed but so much has changed it wouldn't be worth it. Just like before I've not really worked on any detailing as I'm still trying to nail down the layout.

Image

Image
(the pictures are kinda dark but it looks better in game)

Download

Feedback
  • map layout
  • item placement
  • pathing from one floor to the next (are there to many ways to move between floor, to few, ect)

thoughts /notes:

I know dead ends are generally a bad idea but I'm not quite sure what to do with this back area here I thought about putting a teleporter here or maybe removing the wall but I think that would make that area a bit to open.

Another area that I feel could use some reworking is the wall opposite to the stairs as it looks pretty plain right now I'm not sure if this is just because it lacks any sort of detail or maybe I need to put something there such as a small room, jump pad, ect.

lastly I ended up removing the cold/winter theme while I still like the idea I just don't think it was used that well obviously this causes a problem for the name of the map and I'm not really sure what to call it now but for the time being and to avoid any confusion I will just keep the name the same
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AEon
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PostPosted: 08-15-2014 07:55 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Quick note... all your grated textures are missing or do not work in my clean install of wolfcamql. I recommend a second clean install of the game to let you actually test for missing content in the pk3.
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Scorch_
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PostPosted: 08-15-2014 08:42 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AEon wrote:
Quick note... all your grated textures are missing or do not work in my clean install of wolfcamql. I recommend a second clean install of the game to let you actually test for missing content in the pk3.


The texture I used for them should be one of the default textures as its used in quite a few quake live maps such as toxicity, warehouse, and the edge to just name a few. I also just did a fresh install of wolfcam and all the textures are visible for me they are also visible in quake live as well.
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AEon
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PostPosted: 08-15-2014 10:00 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Very very strange.
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