Quake3World.com Forums
     Level Editing & Modeling
        Pre-early tournament map layout suggestion


Post new topicReply to topic
Login | Profile | | FAQ | Search | IRC




Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Topic Starter Topic: Pre-early tournament map layout suggestion

The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 1922
PostPosted: 08-21-2014 05:52 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Well, I start with some basic layout for now non-existing tournament map, which I would start building after developing of current deathmatch map will end and it goes final... My goal was to follow Pat Howard's gameplay layout guides, some high valuable items are suggested to be in place (Red Armor, Railgun, Rocket Launcher) and some small items (Armor Shards, Small Healths), included also Lighting Gun next to RL, it's not so much high valuable item though it can cause pretty much damage... Quad Damage was set in open area on the ground level, in center of the floor. Map will not be symetrical. Including a photoshop drawing I made from scratch :) Map would be for Vanilla Quake 3, with some changes it can be later converted for Quake Live and sent to devs to be ckecked out (LG is for example a lot stronger in QL than in Q3). Feedback is more than welcomed :)




Attachments:
File comment: Photoshop scratch for pre-early layout of duel map
czq3duel1_pre-early-layout.jpg
czq3duel1_pre-early-layout.jpg [ 56.87 KB | Viewed 358 times ]

_________________
[ Websites | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube | Instagram ]
When you feel the worst, turn to the sun and all the shadows will fall behind you.” - John Lennon
Top
                 

Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 494
PostPosted: 08-21-2014 08:59 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


i think you are off to a good start but it is a little hard to give you detailed feedback just looking at this on paper. paper is a great tool, but remember at this point the map exists mostly in your mind. all i can say about gameplay is the map looks very small. this is okay if you just want a fun map to play with friends, but if you want something to play competitively you can't have the entire map visible at once in this way.

i have a few suggestions about your layout process (in no particular order):

- your diagram looks way too pretty for this stage. the diagrams i made in my articles were for finalized maps, that is the only reason i spent so much time on them. in the beginning, draw on paper to a level of detail where it's not very annoying to scratch things out and draw the whole map out again. otherwise, you will get annoyed quickly. again, paper is mainly a tool for YOU. if YOU can tell what you are doing, it doesn't matter if it is a quick and dirty drawing.

- if color-coding helps you, use the paint brush tool in Photoshop or something simple like that.

- quad is basically never used in tourney maps. it is way too powerful. stick to armors and MH for power items.

- when designing an area, try to give the player multiple options for how to enter/exit that area. for me, the magic number is three. unless i want an area to be really dangerous, i try to give the player three choices of how to get in or out. some areas, like large rooms, have more than three connections, but i've always felt three is a good standard.

take for example standing on the ground level in the middle of pro-q3dm6 at the MH. you can go through either of the two doors to the LG or the SG or you can go up the bouncer to the RL - that's three options.

if you have less than three options, it becomes very easy to lead a player as he moves along a certain path, or trap him completely.

- when you block out your map, try doing it the way i did my most recent alpha. use one texture. any other textures you use should be special surfaces. don't even worry about lights, just use ambient lighting. don't worry about ceilings, they will get in the way in your editor. it's called a "floorplan" for a reason. the floors and walls are the only important things at this point.



- everything should be blocky. try to stay mostly on the 64u grid and sometimes on the 32u grid. definitely avoid the 16u grid or lower (with very few exceptions). if you find yourself worrying if a path should be 16 or 32 units longer and you haven't even completed the layout yet you are spending time on the wrong things.

- as always, my strategy is to learn from the best. not everyone likes this, but i find it really helpful to decompile famous maps and retrace them in all types of ways to get a feel for their scale and how they work. when you are just learning, i'd suggest spending as little as 50% of your time creating maps. spend the other portion of the time studying/playing good maps, watching pro games, and figuring out what went wrong on your last project and what you can learn from it.

when you do this, it can be hard not to copy other people's work since you are studying it so closely. i wouldn't worry to much at this point. just be honest about what you're doing. it's perfectly okay to say, "i was really inspired by map X, and i used it as a basis for this layout as a way to learn." it won't be too long before you'll have some of your own creative ideas that you can take to completion and release as full maps.

hope that helps!
pat

p.s. don't bother with QL devs like SyncError until you have a finished product to show them.




Top
                 

Immortal
Immortal
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 2476
PostPosted: 08-21-2014 12:53 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Another map by CZghost? How many are you working on now?




Top
                 

The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 1922
PostPosted: 08-22-2014 12:44 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@fkd: For now at nothing, Radiant is still jacking :( I just have creative mind now, I imagined a tourney map and wanna keep it alive. As I said, I would start making this map after the current deathmatch map I am working on, now pending to Radiant issue solve, goes final. I am planning forward, not working actualy on two or more projects besides...

@pat: Well, i tried to enlarge the map a bit, the result is a bit bigger map than I was planning out, but yet small enough to asume it as duel map. Will include drawing later. Just for now, it sits on my paper, I'll start making digital drawing in Photoshop on afternoon after the lunch. My drawing skills even with pen are quite poor, my handwriting is almost unreadable, not to mention drawing skills with mouse :) Will include also scan of my initial drawing on the paper just to compare with color coded and clean digital version of scratch :)



_________________
[ Websites | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube | Instagram ]
When you feel the worst, turn to the sun and all the shadows will fall behind you.” - John Lennon


Top
                 

The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 1922
PostPosted: 08-22-2014 06:29 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Well, having yet again only digital version, now it gets bigger and more "chunky" than previous layout concept. Bigger size requires more weapons and items, quad is no longer here.

Attachment:
File comment: Pre-early duel map layout concept
czq3duel1_pre-early-layout.jpg
czq3duel1_pre-early-layout.jpg [ 166.39 KB | Viewed 361 times ]
The abandoned arrow in 4th region is pointing to death pit, it may change during development. Blank circle without description in 3rd region would contain some holdable item (PT or medkit), the one in 2nd region should wear RG. I forgot to include descriptions of these annotations, sorry for that :) Rocket Launcher may be under the grate as a risk of being shot when grabbing that high valuable item...

For now, it might stay as a paper concept only, until I will finish the deatmatch map now pending for Radiant permissions issue to be solved.



_________________
[ Websites | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube | Instagram ]
When you feel the worst, turn to the sun and all the shadows will fall behind you.” - John Lennon


Top
                 
Quake3World.com | Forum Index | Level Editing & Modeling


Post new topic Reply to topic


cron
Quake3World.com
© ZeniMax. Zenimax, QUAKE III ARENA, Id Software and associated trademarks are trademarks of the ZeniMax group of companies. All rights reserved.
This is an unofficial fan website without any affiliation with or endorsement by ZeniMax.
All views and opinions expressed are those of the author.