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Topic Starter Topic: Re: Inf_dm1 Alpha
spookmineer
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PostPosted: 09-26-2009 02:35 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Infernis!

I haven't been able to play the map yet (netbook, not installed Q3) but:

Image

These colours! They are to die for! I can't believe no one mentioned this before me (ok, only commenting the colours, but still).
Maybe I'm mistaken (not having played the map) but this golden/yellow is the coolest I've seen ever. And I know how hard it is to light a map.

Again, not having played this map, does anyone disagree in the slightest?
The colours make (at least) the screenshot, and maybe the map - again not played it.

But those colours...

Oh, and the tiles in that screenshot seem to be misaligned.
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monaster
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PostPosted: 09-26-2009 07:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


spookmineer wrote:
Infernis!
These colours! They are to die for! I can't believe no one mentioned this before me (ok, only commenting the colours, but still).
Maybe I'm mistaken (not having played the map) but this golden/yellow is the coolest I've seen ever. And I know how hard it is to light a map.

Again, not having played this map, does anyone disagree in the slightest?


Totally agreed!



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Infernis
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PostPosted: 09-26-2009 11:06 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Perhaps if AEon get's around to making a set of it we will see some maps using it. Otherwise stick to Evillair his set if you want to try it out :D

Anyone care to comment about the gameplay?



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Fjoggs
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PostPosted: 09-27-2009 04:24 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Infernis wrote:
Fjoggs wrote:
Always sad to see so many similar faces in an old thread, and having no idea where they went. :(


When I saw that you replied I expected one of the old school mapping legends to have provided me with the feedback needed to make this play great. Oh well :p


ehehe, I'll try to jump around on it later today. Battling a monsterheadache atm. One too many last night. :p
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Infernis
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PostPosted: 09-29-2009 04:43 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


/me bumps this thread :clownboat:



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AEon
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PostPosted: 09-29-2009 06:14 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Did you release a new version, I am still at inf_dm1g.pk3. After another 100 frags:

  • The map pretty much works as it is... I'd really be surprised to see it change much from this point on, and if so, that would actually be an eyeopener.
  • You may want to change the PS (Player Spawns) in your map, there are several right in the middle of the gameplay paths. In the midst of combat Xaero spawed right in front of me - man that was scary. Even though this is kind of a lame idea, because fKd is already doing this in his template map, but you might like to think about adding a few niches/alcoves for the PS to get them out of the main paths or something along those lines.
  • IMO, the PG and the 25H there could be move more into the back wall.
  • The map needs more health with "only" 2x25 at LG, 1x25 at PG, and 2x25 at the 2nd TP. One 50H in the central floor of the 2nd TP (on the other side of the Quad wall). And another 50H on the steps of the 1st TP (near the RA) or at the top end of the RA bridge, IMO, would help the player live a bit longer.
  • Only design issue to solve are the TPs... presently they feel a bit, "uninspired", IMO.
  • I love your 90° stairs, they are really fun to run up :)

Oh, I am presently bored out of my wits. I'd love to play around with the .map file if that was acceptable for you. It's amazing how much fun it is to edit these template texture maps.
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Infernis
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PostPosted: 09-29-2009 10:40 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thanks AEon. Your feedback has been really helpfull.

I totally agree about the player spawns. I've been trying to come up with something better. Your not the only one to comment about the health, so I'll gladly take those suggestions to heart.

The TP's are placeholders. I got a TP in mind but I'm awaiting permission if I can use them. I'll put up an updated version of the map later this week.

BTW, you set you thought about doing a set based on those template textures. At ESReality people said positive things about it and the other guys here loved them too. So there seems to be interest in such a set. You might want to look into that.

Ofcourse you can have the .map file. Drop me a pm with an adress I can sent it to or decompile.



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Inf - Leaving in it's torturous wake nothing but vicious, cannabalistic, mutated, radiated and horribly disfigured hordes of satanic killers!

Last edited by Infernis on 09-29-2009 11:38 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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AEon
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PostPosted: 09-29-2009 11:34 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I must have crossed over to the dark side, but while dozing I had a few ideas for your map I just had to try out in geometry, and then remembered that q3map2 lets you decompile bsp files: First time test worked well, so I experimented >:D. The editor shots should better explain what I was thinking about (obviously the red textures denote changes to your map):

    Image

    a) I am a bit proud of this one. The LG room's JP never really worked for me, a big break in gameflow IMO. It then occured to me to use your really cool 90° stairs...
    b) ... placed two of them in a slightly larger room (by two floor grids pushed back the rounded wall), using your rounded off walls to create a column (sorry, fKd for borrowing the deco grate in the center of the column ;)). Now you can run up the stairs very quicky to get the LG. Moved the 25H to the inside of the flat areas where a player may miss picking them up. Also note that I move the PS (Player Spawn) behind the LG.
    c) Experiment with letting a skybox or some sky into the map.
    d) Second test with sky, IMO the walls should be raised a bit. Very ugly, presently... but a nicely decorated ceiling with lots of sky should very much elevate the boxed-in feeling of the map.

    Image

    e) The other area where I felt the JP is a bit useless, even though it *does* save tons of polygons was the Quad area. Experimented with straight stairs...
    f) ... rounded off stairs...
    g) ... rounded off stairs II. Not sure any of these versions are any good, but I liked the idea not having to use the JP. Maybe you can come up with a more pretty solution. Also experimented with the Quad placement.
    h) Your RL arena is one of the central fighting areas, IMO, it would help to move the stairs on the right, more to the right, as shown. This leaves bots/player more space on the floor area for the RL. I then placed the RL right under the bridge. Note the 25H health at the top of the stairs, felt that something should be placed there.

If you like I can PM you the .map file, but I'm sure you can do that with the your original map code very quickly, since your map is nicely modular, *if* the ideas are actually worth something.

On the texture set, just checked, would need the permission from evillair to expand it. Presently I am not so sure the set should *really* be used for a map. fKd's map looks pretty cool in that set as well, but I am pretty sure he will "properly" texture it. Expanding the template texture set should be relatively simple (I think)... you'd only need an original texture you want to see abstracted to then turn it into black and orange. One could then expand the theme in color as well - see my red texture shots above. It would then be simple to use several colors in the map... e.g. orange base, then yellow, or red or some other color for decoration.

Great map...
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Infernis
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PostPosted: 09-29-2009 11:53 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Excellent!

You should be proud of a) and b)! Awesome find!

Not sure about e), f) and g) though. The whole idea behind that area was to make you vunerable while getting out. Putting a stair that would kill that. Maybe some boxes to make you jump?



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AEon
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PostPosted: 09-29-2009 12:12 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Infernis wrote:
Not sure about e), f) and g) though. The whole idea behind that area was to make you vunerable while getting out. Putting a stair that would kill that. Maybe some boxes to make you jump?


That would probably be better, i.e. the boxes, the JP gets you out of that pit very quickly. Started hollowing out all your ceilings, much like mitering, could not resist.
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Infernis
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PostPosted: 09-29-2009 12:16 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Your a mapping machine AEon.

Working on a lot of your suggestions right now.



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Infernis
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PostPosted: 09-30-2009 12:57 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Latest version here.

Changes:

Changed the spawnpoints to minimize bots spawning in front of you.
Removed the quad.
Changed the RA and YA to make running for them less easy.
Swapped a couple of weapons.
Added health.
Changed the LG room.
Removed the JP near the forum quad. Added boxes instead.
Created more space in the RL area.

I hope you all want to give it a go. Ofcourse a screenshot [old one] is provided as well.

I think the layout is pretty much done. I would like comments on item placement and spawn locations. Bot support is added. They use it rather well. Each area is visited. Tourney seems a bit dull though. I think I can go pretty it up now. What do you think?

Image



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spookmineer
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PostPosted: 09-30-2009 07:42 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


spookmineer wrote:
Again, I haven't been able to play the map yet (netbook, not installed Q3).
Sorry, would have loved to...

Again,
Oh, and the tiles in that screenshot seem to be misaligned.
The floor tiles :paranoid:
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Infernis
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PostPosted: 09-30-2009 09:47 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


spookmineer wrote:
spookmineer wrote:
Again, I haven't been able to play the map yet (netbook, not installed Q3).
Sorry, would have loved to...

Again,
Oh, and the tiles in that screenshot seem to be misaligned.
The floor tiles :paranoid:


I know mate, but it doesn't matter. It's just temporary :)



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AEon
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PostPosted: 10-01-2009 11:04 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Sorry, had overlooked the last version. Might be good to give your versions a revision number, and add that number to the name of the pk3 file, e.g. Inf_dm1_alpha_r14.pk3. The .bsp file can stay the way it is.

  • The PG in the 2nd TP arena really works well, creating the second battle arena next to the RL arena.
  • The RA replacing the Quad also works well. I like the boxes, that actually take some skill jumping to get out of the pit. And as "wanted" I got stuck, and the bots clobbered me :D. And the GL here allows for some convenient RA pit spamming with grenades.
  • Since the PG arena now is another battle area, it might be nice if you tried to hollow out the "walls" on the lover level to give the player more space to fight. E.g. when standing at the PG, looking towards the TP, the path above to the left, could be turned (in part or completely) into a platform giving the player a lot more space to move. The upper path, behind the PG could also be a candidate for this. I like the way you added an interesting wall indentation at the upper end of the bridge (RL room), something like that in the PG rooms lower level could be spiffy.
  • Nice remake of the stairs in the LG... looks great. What makes me a bit nervous is the nice "high" detail level you have in the LG room, you may need to up the geometry detail in the rest of the map too... but that is probably already in planning when you go beta.
  • The 1st TP (RL arena) destination placement in the upper PG arena is neat.
  • You might want to change the destination of the 2nd TP to the niche at the top end of the bridge in the RL room. The corridor you presently use as an exit is *very* dangerous, splash-damage-wise and also leads to telefrags.
  • The bridge is a bit empty, maybe place 3x5H there to give the player something to pick up. It would also be an interesting audio cue for the folks playing below the bridge.
  • The LG room's stairs could use a light at the far wall, bit dark here.
  • The "smaller" stairs in the RL arena also seem to help.
  • So does the 50H in the PG arena and the 25H in the RA arena. Maybe add another 25H where the YA used to be.
  • The YA presently is right in the middle of the passage... maybe "indent" (see upper end of the RL bridge wall) the wall here and place the MH into that niche. This way the bots/players can pass the YA (accidentally) letting someone else pick it up.
  • Bots play the map well, actually a bit better, IMO, since they now use the 2nd arena a lot as well.
  • To help the bots "climb" the boxes better you may want to add some "fake" botclip stairs, that let them exit the pit. Yes, this is a bit cheating, but players cannot cheat so it should be fine.
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AEon
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PostPosted: 10-02-2009 09:05 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


After testing the map some more I started to wonder why the bots so rarely take the upper level paths, i.e. starting at the top end of the bridge all the way around, right to the LG.

Because there is almost nothing up here. Except the LG and 2x25 at the 2nd TP. Some health, ammo, and maybe a powerup (e.g. a MH), on the upper paths would motivate the bots to roam more.

The PS next to the 2nd TP is problematic. The bots respawn and immediacy leave the PG room via TP, abandoning that arena.
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Infernis
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PostPosted: 10-03-2009 12:56 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That I didn't notice. Suggestions will be implented in a new version.

Thanks!



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AEon
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PostPosted: 10-03-2009 10:08 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


OK, cannot bear to see you guys have all the fun :toothy:, starting a template based map for fun as well. I will very carefully try to avoid copying anything you or fKd created.

On the interesting side I started to create new template textures. E.g. a new fully functional AP shader/texture based on the id designs and also recreated an orange/black fan. I'll look into other designs and try to create a template version for them too.

If you are then interested you'd be welcome to use them in your own map. Here the very first textures:

    Image Image
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Pat Howard
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PostPosted: 10-03-2009 12:07 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Looks good, AEon, they fit nicely. A teleport shader would be useful too, and maybe some item markers? I'm gonna start pumping out some alphas as well soon now that Q is basically done. Probably won't use these textures though. They're nice but it gets confusing with every map looking the same.

Infernis, I just played a game in this map. Sadly I can't give you that much info. I'm already testing all the other alphas right now. I will say one thing though: The biggest thing I noticed is that the grenade launcher is insanely powerful in this map. With bots the way they are now, there are very few instances where it's even worth it to switch to a different weapon. I can't imagine how it would be with more than three players. Anyway, I'd think about that. You could add some gutters along the perimeter of the floors to catch a few strays, or open some hallways up a little more.

-pat
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Infernis
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PostPosted: 10-03-2009 01:24 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@AEon:

Looking nice! Really handy to have as well :)

You can copy whatever you want as far as I'm concerned.


@Pat:

I'm glad you pointed this out to me. The GL is indeed too powerfull in this map. The gutter idea is nice. I could add those to the 2 atriums and the RA room. That should minimize it's overall effectiveness.



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AEon
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PostPosted: 10-03-2009 02:09 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Sofar did some 16 textures... if you have a wish for a specific one, provide a list of texture names, and I'll look into those.

As a preview... (should create a new thread for these):
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fKd
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PostPosted: 10-03-2009 02:13 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


i'd take whatever textures you have made for temp01 :D
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Infernis
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PostPosted: 10-03-2009 11:22 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I second that.

Not that I mind though, but I would create a seperate thread for the textures to get them more exposure.



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AEon
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PostPosted: 08-28-2013 10:46 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Now I remember... that was the time I actually "created" textures of sorts. Looking forward to more work on this map.
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