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Topic Starter Topic: nerd rage part 2

i liek boobies
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PostPosted: 05-01-2011 05:05 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


So, Rage isn't too far away now, current indications are September 2011. My current machine is 2 years and a few months old, and I was timing my upgrade to coincide with the release of Rage. Provided id stay on track, I'd be looking to have a new PC up and running by late August/early September at the latest.

Creating this thread so we can nerd it up about Rage specced PCs.

The game's being released on consoles as well, so chances are it'll be optimized enough to run on anything semi-recent. Having said that, I'm sure we'll be able to crank up not only the resolution, but also the graphics settings to much higher details than available on console. Hence the need [well, less need and more desire I suppose] to upgrade.

As always, I will be targeting one or two notches below top-of-the-line. No real fixed budget, but I do want to make smart choices [good value for money options].

The 2 big decisions [no surprise there] will be Intel or AMD and nVidia or ATi.

I know Sandy Bridge was released a few months ago, but then Intel had to recall motherboards due to chipset/manufacturing bugs. Assuming they're over that hurdle by now, is Sandy Bridge the way to go as far as platform is concerned? Does AMD have anything competitive with i5/i7 when it comes to gaming? Does Intel or AMD have anything in the pipeline due before September?

I've always been an nVidia fan, and historically, they've always done better on OpenGL games than ATi have. What does the landscape look like here? One more thing, is HDMI out on modern graphics cards standard by now? My current GTX260 doesn't have HDMI. I'd like to be able to hook the PC up to my TV.

RAM, 8GB enough? 12? 16? Anything important to look out for here?

On-board sound is still good enough for me. I think optical out is pretty much standard now.

Setting aside the "don't wait to upgrade because there's always something new around the corner" mantra, and given the timeline [anywhere from now to August], what would be the best time to upgrade and which way would you go?




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Elite
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PostPosted: 05-01-2011 07:05 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


U4EA wrote:
I know Sandy Bridge was released a few months ago, but then Intel had to recall motherboards due to chipset/manufacturing bugs. Assuming they're over that hurdle by now, is Sandy Bridge the way to go as far as platform is concerned?

Look for the B3 revision, All of the brands have it stamped everywhere and usually include it within the model number.

Does AMD have anything competitive with i5/i7 when it comes to gaming? Does Intel or AMD have anything in the pipeline due before September?

Look up the AMD Bulldozer, or something to that effect.. thats what is comming... the only other thing that i know that is comming is the i9 with Quad channel memory.. but AFAIK there is no Due date.

I've always been an nVidia fan, and historically, they've always done better on OpenGL games than ATi have. What does the landscape look like here? One more thing, is HDMI out on modern graphics cards standard by now? My current GTX260 doesn't have HDMI. I'd like to be able to hook the PC up to my TV.

The landscape is masstive, and very populated, Get a budget and play within... All cards have HDMI and at times, Display port built into them.
Choices, Choices... there is no clear cut winner.


RAM, 8GB enough? 12? 16? Anything important to look out for here?

Sure, 8 is enough, but... The more the better, you know? Currently I'm running 6 :)

On-board sound is still good enough for me. I think optical out is pretty much standard now.

Yes, and Yes.




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I'm the dude!
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PostPosted: 05-01-2011 07:09 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


My brother just picked up a Sandybridge i7 a month ago with one of the updated Asus mobos and I think a GTX 560. I keep wondering if he'll notice if I sneak into his apartment (I have his house keys) and swap my first generation i7 parts for his.



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Elite
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PostPosted: 05-01-2011 07:16 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I have the 1366 i7 950, and when its compared to a 1155 i7 2600K, the 2600 can be up to 20% faster...

But honestly, i don't think many people would notice 20% :)




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I'm the dude!
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PostPosted: 05-01-2011 07:18 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AmIdYfReAk wrote:
But honestly, i don't think many people would notice 20% :)


^ new internet meme.



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i liek boobies
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PostPosted: 05-02-2011 02:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


OK, so I understand how games generally don't benefit much from the whole multiple core thing. A single core operating at a higher clock speed should theoretically outperform a multicore processor in a game that's not built to take advantage of multiple cores.

BUT, having said that, this chart still seems a bit disappointing no?

Forget all the SYSMark and general system benchmarks and scroll all the way down to the 4 games.

Compared to my current E8500 [3.16 GHz], the i7 950 [3 GHz] is 4 fps higher in L4D2 and Crysis Warhead and in fact just a bit over 2 fps LOWER in Fallout 3. OK, so Fallout 3 is an old game and wasn't built to take advantage of multiple cores, but still, sheesh! Well even Crysis Warhead and L4D2 are running on older engines, so it does make sense.

Significant improvement in Far Cry 2, which makes sense as it's a more recent game and presumably coded with multicores in mind.

One would hope with Carmack's typical engine wizardry that the Rage engine would cope well with the multiple cores, but I guess we won't know until some sort of benchmarks start floating through.




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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 05-02-2011 02:50 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I find it rather odd that a game like Fallout 3 doesn't support SMP since it runs on XBox 360 as well and that has 3 cores in there too.

Maybe apples and oranges, but I would assume that for games in the past, say, 3 to 5 years, multi-core support is a given?




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Glayven?
Glayven?
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PostPosted: 05-02-2011 03:07 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
Maybe apples and oranges, but I would assume that for games in the past, say, 3 to 5 years, multi-core support is a given?


Not really. While offering support for multiple cores on PC is expected, it isn't always the focus. Since the Xbox 360 and the PS3 are multi-core, multi-bus systems, it's of course expected that the engine is optimized for each platform.

Mass Effect 2 was released with the minimum PC system specs demanding a multicore processor. This was very apparent when people with older single core systems bought the game and flooded the ME forums with complaints about the game's only dualcore necessity being the loading screens. One week and a quick patch later, all those people with single core systems were playing the game at the same performance as the dual core systems, while still seeing the same loading screens. After releasing the patch, the devs at Bioware clearly re-stated that the game's minimum spec was still a dualcore, but that didn't stop them from fixing a near-sighted tech decision to appease the thousands of customers who didn't upgrade their systems.

In short, my point is that any dev who ignores the huge customer base that is still running single cores is cutting their own throat.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 05-02-2011 07:29 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


You absolutely do not need 8GB of ram or more to play any game I know of. Just about the highest memory footprint I've heard of a game having would be about 3GB and even that's a stretch.

Things I'd use 8GB for:

Workstations with multiple displays to necessitate the multiple programs open at once to require 8GB of ram.

High Performance Computing (Folding@Home and the like)

Servers



Considering how much memory video cards have now, there's even LESS of a reason to get more ram because your videocard is doing all the heavy lifting. In the context of gaming, your CPU essentially serves to be a router or a waypoint as data streams into your GPU. Your CPU only needs to be able to Keep up with your GPUs bandwidth needs, performs some tasks in a timely manner (AI, loading sequences, I/O mangement, game dynamics) and be able to quickly address ram. If I were building a gaming PC from the ground up, I'd go with a mid-range cpu, high-end GPU, and 4GB of ram, and maybe an SSD (Intel branded 40GB drives are about 100 bucks, for a gaming machine I wouldn't go for it) for booting/swap and old fashioned Hard drives for other stuff.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819103808
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820178265
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 0lightning
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product

I can't think of a game that configuration won't completely kick the shit out of. You can add on to that, certainly, but each addition will add on far more cost than performance.




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I nose it!
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PostPosted: 05-09-2011 05:43 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I was considering changing my phenom ll x2 550BE (which I've got overclocked to 3.8 even though intel burntest doesn't like it :p ) for an x4 955, also with a view to better framerates in gaming. But most people told me that it wouldn't make much if any difference in most games and that I'd be better off buying a second 5850. Even so, I've pretty much decided to go i5 and this comparison shows it beating the 955 quite a bit. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/288?vs=88 And I'll no doubt overclock it. Some people get theirs up to 5Ghz. I'm going to buy a motherboard with both quad sli and quad crossfire and have been advised to wait for the Z58 motherboards and not bother with a P67 (I was going to buy the Asus Sabertooth Intel P67).
Crossfire is where very large fps increases should be gained, and that's what I'm looking for as I'm sure you are.

AMD Bulldozer is out next month and comes in 3 flavours, quad, hex and octo.
The 8 core FX 8110 (AMD Bullldozer) is another possibility for you and me depending if it's close to the reasonable price of the i5. Apparently, it could well be a lower cost than the i5.
I will quote someone who saw a screenshot of an FX 8110 bench,

"Well, the main thing to take from the screenshot, if its real, is sub 8 seconds on superpi at 3.8Ghz is completely immense. Superpi is one of the few things that can use the full width of a single i7 core, its kind of best case scenario. My system isn't set up for ultimate speed but right now my P2 quad at 3.84Ghz gives 17.5seconds on superpi, if a Zambezi is down to under 8 seconds, thats a ridiculous, massive increase in throughput and speed. matching Intel in Intel's best case scenario benchmark, you literally can't overstate how MASSIVE that is.

Also, the cheapest Bulldozer octo core will cost less than a 2600K, probably below a 2500k, while the highest bin might well be closer to a 2600k.

I've been quietly optimistic for Bulldozer but never in a million years would have expected even a sub 10 second superpi. Phenom is a 3 issue core (but a slow one) i7 is a 4 issue core, Bulldozer is a 2 issue core, but with MASSIVE improvements so it should be much closer to an i7 than a Phenom 2 is. Bulldozer isn't a well hidden secret that its designed to be a pretty awesome multicore chip.

People incorrectly took that to mean they didn't care about single thread performance, that was rubbish it just meant AMD wouldn't increase core size 20% to increase single thread performance 5%, its a waste. It was focusing on efficiency, but fast single thread performance IS efficient. But that is why I was expecting good but not epic single thread performance increases, that Super pi increase, if believed, is in the range of best ever increase in performance type EPIC."



So you might wanna wait a bit for user opinions about the bulldozers to start coming in, as I'm going to do.
The flagship 8 core will be the FX 8130p.


edit, it seems the sub 8 seconds superpi for the FX 8110 is fake.
Quote:
'We have been contacted by GIGABYTE and they confirmed that the chat conversation and all the details are fake '
http://www.rumorpedia.net/exclusive-amd ... -gigabyte/

Image




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i liek boobies
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PostPosted: 08-25-2011 02:45 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


OK, so the time is approaching and I've gone decidedly mid-range and made the following picks:

Processor: Intel Core i5-2500K
Motherboard: Intel (Socket 1155) board of some description
Memory: 8GB DDR3 RAM
Graphics: ZOTAC NVIDIA GTX460 D5 1G
Primary Storage: OCZ SSD 3.5" SATA 120GB Vertex2
Secondary Storage: existing 1TB SATA
Optical: watever

Input and motherboard ideas appreciated. I'm also checking out reviews and my local stores to see what's decent and available.




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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 08-25-2011 03:09 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


8GB is considered mid-range these days? Jesus Christ...




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Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
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PostPosted: 08-25-2011 03:14 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


saves devs from optimizing their code :up:




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i liek boobies
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PostPosted: 08-25-2011 03:20 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


RAM's cheap these days eh? I meant mid-range for the C/GPU, the two bits that really matter :p

There's also an SSD in there if you want to complain :D




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Elite
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PostPosted: 08-26-2011 05:24 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


U4EA wrote:
OK, so the time is approaching and I've gone decidedly mid-range and made the following picks:

Processor: Intel Core i5-2500K
Motherboard: Intel (Socket 1155) board of some description
Memory: 8GB DDR3 RAM
Graphics: ZOTAC NVIDIA GTX460 D5 1G
Primary Storage: OCZ SSD 3.5" SATA 120GB Vertex2
Secondary Storage: existing 1TB SATA
Optical: watever

Input and motherboard ideas appreciated. I'm also checking out reviews and my local stores to see what's decent and available.



That is very close to what i have,

I7 950 @ 3.8ghz ( till new Power supply :) )
Asus p6X58D-E
6GB Corsair 1600Mhz 6-8-6-20
2X Zotac GTX 460 1GB
OCZ Vertex 2 60GB
2X Wd black 640GB in raid 0 w/ICH10R

You'll be more then happy with it overall.

One note for the SSD, How much more is it for the agility 3? the price gap is usually VERY small, You'll maintain the IO/Sec that the vertex 2 offers, but you'll roughly double the read/write speeds.

The only downfall for the switch is that the Agility 3 doent come with a 2.5" to 3.5" adapter.

i see this in your future!!!




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i liek boobies
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PostPosted: 08-27-2011 05:24 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Vertex2 vs. Agility3 is a difference of $194.68 or $225.99, so about $30.

In light of all the comments, I'm scaling the memory back from 8GB to 6GB [fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu-----]

Also considering the GTX 560 Ti instead of the GTX 460: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/313?vs=330

As far as motherboard and video card brands go, is there any in particular to beware of? Or can you just safely grab the cheapest and be done with it?

Thanks for the feedback everyone.




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Your Other Daddy
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PostPosted: 08-27-2011 05:30 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


mobo go ASUS or gigabyte

gpu go EVGA



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Elite
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PostPosted: 08-27-2011 06:33 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


U4EA wrote:
Vertex2 vs. Agility3 is a difference of $194.68 or $225.99, so about $30.

In light of all the comments, I'm scaling the memory back from 8GB to 6GB [fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu-----]

Also considering the GTX 560 Ti instead of the GTX 460: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/313?vs=330

As far as motherboard and video card brands go, is there any in particular to beware of? Or can you just safely grab the cheapest and be done with it?

Thanks for the feedback everyone.



one thing that you're un-aware of, You simply CANT do 6GB on a 1155 based system.. that would consist of 1X4GB and 1X2GB.

Ram is stupid cheap, Stick with 8GB.

Good switch up for the Videocard, the 560TI is a decent amount faster then the aging 460 line.

Mobo Stick with Gigabyte or asus... you'll be fine.




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I'm the dude!
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PostPosted: 08-27-2011 04:54 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


560TI is a good upgrade over the 460 considering you are currently running a 260, it'll be a bigger jump that's well worth the price difference.



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i liek boobies
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PostPosted: 08-28-2011 04:01 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thanks gents. Keeping the RAM @ 8GB, motherboard is Gigabyte, and making the switch to 560TI and Agility3. My local computer shop has all the parts I want, cheaper/equivalent than online deals + shipping. Hopefully will be picking it up next weekend.




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Elite
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PostPosted: 09-02-2011 05:59 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Well? :D




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PostPosted: 09-03-2011 03:51 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Unexpectedly busy Saturday so I wasn't able to make it down, it'll have to be next weekend :(




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i liek boobies
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PostPosted: 09-09-2011 11:52 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote





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Elite
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PostPosted: 09-13-2011 04:12 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


How do you like the upgrade sir? :)




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i liek boobies
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PostPosted: 09-13-2011 04:39 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It's great! I had only gotten a few minutes into Deus Ex on the old PC before deciding to wait for the upgrade, so I'm currently playing through that. Flawless, maxed out @ 1680 x 1050 so it's good fun. OS/Game load times are very quick. I haven't really tried anything else on it yet.

Video conversion time was something that bugged me on the old PC, and multicores are supposed to speed that up considerably. But, I also recently got a new helmet and haven't yet mounted my camera to it, so I have nothing to convert :(

Next on the list is getting an HDMI cable and hooking it up to the TV.

Bring on Rage!




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Elite
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PostPosted: 09-13-2011 06:57 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote





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i liek boobies
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PostPosted: 09-13-2011 07:32 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Nice. BTW, any thoughts as to why my Agility 3 scored 7.3 while your Vertex 2 scored 7.9? Could it be the size of the drive, or perhaps the difference in motherboard? Could the processor have anything to do with it?




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Elite
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PostPosted: 09-13-2011 07:45 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


We're both on the ICH10 chipset, I'm running it in raid mode along with two blacks.

Personally i think its an error.




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i liek boobies
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PostPosted: 09-13-2011 08:07 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


An error?! Yikes! What sort of error? I'll try re-running this later. I would have thought running an SSD in raid mode with a mechanical drive would be slower, not faster.




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Elite
Elite
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PostPosted: 09-20-2011 03:49 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


i mean an error on my score, Not yours!

My SSD is running JBOD beside the Two WD blacks that are in Raid 0.




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i liek boobies
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PostPosted: 10-12-2011 10:05 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


U4EA wrote:
Having said that, I'm sure we'll be able to crank up not only the resolution, but also the graphics settings to much higher details than available on console.

Egg :arrow: face




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Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
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PostPosted: 10-14-2011 01:57 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


:olo:




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