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Topic Starter Topic: LD 20 Brush Contest (Posts and Questions Thread)

Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-30-2010 02:19 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


LD 20 Brush Contest Volume 1:

See the announcement here.

Post any questions, comments, other random stuff about the contest below.



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-30-2010 05:28 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I saw the other thread about there being a contest about making a map with only 20 brushes. I started the moment I read it, and I'm just about done with the basic structure (I have little to no intention of winning, may the best map win) but I wanted to enter it for funzies just because ..it's 20 brushes, and it's been fun to work on so far.

My question is this, I read in the rules that you can have a basic cubic skybox and the 6 brushes used to make it don't count towards the total 20.

My map has a skybox that is both basic and cubic, however 5 of the 6 sides are treated as walls/floor, and the uppermost edge is hellsky.

So, while it's a cube that I've hollowed out, resulting in six brushes, it is an integral part of the layout. In a way, you could say it's a "world" box as opposed to a skybox. Do these 6 brushes still count towards the 20?

If I can't add more brushes, I'm leaning towards adding light-emitting concrete. This is going to be silly.




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PostPosted: 11-30-2010 05:45 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


5 of those brushes would definitely be counted, the 6th is questionable and I'll wait for other judges/organizer to comment.


(Note: merged threads)



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-30-2010 06:35 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Interesting (I thought this thread was locked? oh well, neat)

I found one easy way around my problem anyway, deleted one brush, built another somewhere else. I'll be able to do crazier things once I actually get into shader modification so I don't need different brushes for different things.

I might wanna see how far I can push some visual envelopes with this one, since the structure was so simple to throw together....I'm sure there are some creative geniuses out there that know exactly what to do with 20 brushes, right now, that's not me. (eggnog) But I do like to mess with everything I can get my hands on, like 8 stage shaders or anything else silly I can do with surfaces in quake 3.




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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 11-30-2010 11:56 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


VolumetricSteve wrote:
If I can't add more brushes, I'm leaning towards adding light-emitting concrete. This is going to be silly.


:olo:



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-02-2010 03:44 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
5 of those brushes would definitely be counted, the 6th is questionable and I'll wait for other judges/organizer to comment.


(Note: merged threads)


Agreed!



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-02-2010 06:13 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


My God! 20 brushes? Are you crazy? :dork: Well.. I'll try it, THIS is real challenge :cool:

But I have one question about models. You know, I can make by models very complicated map, but it can be done only with help of clips. So, are botclips, playerclips and so no allowed? And if they are - are they counted into 20 brushes?




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-02-2010 06:54 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


You can't use models.
Only visible brushes count towards the brush count. Clips/hints/alphaMod etc do not count as they have no visible faces in game.




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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 12-02-2010 06:56 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It's 20 visible brushes.
I think the rules should be clearer on the use of map models, because you could create a whole level out of 1 single map object and caulk and player clip the whole thing up and be done with it. I assume that's not allowed, is it?



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-02-2010 08:13 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
It's 20 visible brushes.
I think the rules should be clearer on the use of map models, because you could create a whole level out of 1 single map object and caulk and player clip the whole thing up and be done with it. I assume that's not allowed, is it?


9. Any content that falls outside the rules should be checked with a judge on whether it is allowed before submission. This rule set is fairly comprehensive, but a lack of mentioning something use does not automatically mean it is allowed.

I'm going to say no, that's not allowed.



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PostPosted: 12-02-2010 08:24 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


See #3 (I should also mention that visible func_ entities count as brushes - like if you make a door out of a brush).

Quote:
Rules (Quake 3):

1. A maximum of 20 visible brushes may be used in the level geometry.

2. A maximum of 10 visible patches are allowed in place of a brush (e.g. you can use 16 brushes and 4 patches).

3. Use of all entities (lights, triggers, etc) is allowed and does not add to the 20 brush limit. With the exception of map-models [either stock or 3rd party). This also includes prefabs.

4. Decals and custom sounds are also not allowed.

5. There no texture limit. Stock or 3rd party textures can be used. In case you are using 3rd party textures you must also include the credits. Otherwise the map will be dismissed.

6. The creation of a basic skybox will not add to the 20 brush limit.

- A simple cube may be used to set up a skybox. Complex skyboxes that contain more than a simple cube setup is not allowed.
- A basic sky entity with a skydome mesh may be used to set up a skybox. Complex skyboxes that contain more than a simple skydome mesh setup is not allowed.

7. Brushes are not allowed to have more than 32 surfaces.

8. All submissions should be as complete as possible.

- Do not delete the brushes from your editor once you are done. We need to be able to see what you built and how you built it, so removal of the brushes after completion is not allowed.
- Place all weapons and game type specific entities where they should be. All submissions should be fully functional in their specified gametype(s).
- Include a name, description, level screenshot and the .map file. These are required and do affect marking if not present.

9. Any content that falls outside the rules should be checked with a judge on whether it is allowed before submission. This rule set is fairly comprehensive, but a lack of mentioning something use does not automatically mean it is allowed.

10. The value of each submission is a subjective thing. Judges will do their best to judge evenly and equally. To prevent unpleasantries, all marks given by the judges are final and are not up for debate.



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-02-2010 09:17 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Anthem - that's what I was asking about :) thanks!

Obsidian - yes, but my problem was if I can create whole level like one model and than clip it. With 20 models I can create very complex map. But ok, that's not allowed and thats good :)




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-02-2010 12:27 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm already done with two versions of one map(one with baseq3 textures, one with AEon's texture pack beta 2), and a whole extra new map. How many of our 20 brush maps can we submit for this? I could crank these things out all day, this is a blast.

fun fact : my compiler DESTROYS even the most complex compile modes when there's only 20 brushes, I almost wanna map like this all the time!

I can't wait to see what other folks are putting together.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-02-2010 10:48 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I didn't consider the fact that people might want to submit more then one map :)

BHut only one submission is allowed, so choose your best ;)



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-02-2010 10:59 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Poop. That sucks, because I *just* finished another one, I have three unique maps now and one variation.

*edit

grumble...grumble...I'll pick one......hrmpfh.

also, how are fog brushes counted? like the one I have in just like a list mist on the floor to make it look nice, I can't imagine the way it's laid out it has any impact on gameplay so I don't know if it'd count as one of the 20.




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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 12-02-2010 11:51 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
See #3 (I should also mention that visible func_ entities count as brushes - like if you make a door out of a brush).

Quote:
Rules (Quake 3):

3. Use of all entities (lights, triggers, etc) is allowed and does not add to the 20 brush limit. With the exception of map-models [either stock or 3rd party). This also includes prefabs.


I saw that, but the way you've worded it, it's like map-models are an exception to the rule that entities do not add to the 20 brush limit. So in other words, if I add 1 map-model to my map, that counts as 1 brush, no matter how complex or large it is. This would allow the scenario I described before.

Maybe you should simply state that mapmodels are not allowed?



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PostPosted: 12-03-2010 08:29 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Rule: No mapmodels or I will pee on you head.

There. Happy?



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-03-2010 08:35 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Bad day Obsidian? :owned: Stay cool... :p




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Warrior
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PostPosted: 12-03-2010 10:21 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


For everyone who wants to submit several maps. It's a fun contest with no prizes, so create some fake accounts and submit as a ghostwriter. >:D
Don't forget to use diffrent file hoster etc.



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PostPosted: 12-03-2010 10:24 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Uh... no. Cheating on a "fun" contest just makes you a douche (and I will also pee on your head).



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-03-2010 11:23 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Stand back, he's serious, obsidian will pee on every head.

That's the obsidian guarantee.


Plus I think I know which map I want to submit, so I think I can put away the raincoat.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-03-2010 11:49 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
Uh... no. Cheating on a "fun" contest just makes you a douche (and I will also pee on your head).


I agree with this. I may not pee on your head, but I may defenestrate you at least.



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-03-2010 12:54 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Well Obsidian, you shoud keep drinking a lot of water if you want to pee all our heads :)

But i suppose it will be no neccesary in my case - but I have another question for you, my dear jurors... Can I use "light painting"? I mean projecting shadows on walls with use of INVISIBLE (please, read the word "invisible" very well) brushes to cast shadows on walls?




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-03-2010 12:58 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Noruen, what are you up to? I...just....what?




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-03-2010 01:11 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


VolumeticSteve - that's secret :)




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-03-2010 01:40 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@Noruen

Sure, just make sure you adhere to the 20 brush limit. Even if the brushes are invisible, they are not entities.



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-03-2010 01:56 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


At the risk of getting peed on, I think Noruen wanted to know if an invisible brush would be counted towards the 20 brush limit because it's invisible and the rules say it shouldn't count toward the limit beause it's not visible in-game, but I think the confusion came from the fact these invisible brushes can cast shadows so they're kinda....visible by proxy...kinda? and that's a factor for which there isn't a rule as far as I know.

*escapes before he can get peed on*




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-03-2010 01:57 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I dislike you Anthem! :disgust: :tear: ;)




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-03-2010 03:51 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hmmmmmmmmm. This is tough. Part of me wants to say no, but the rules really do say "visible". Here's a question: Would they be solid? Would they contribute to the gameplay at all or would they simply be to create silhouettes?

Obs or Infje, what are your opinions? I wouldn't mind per se if this was done.



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PostPosted: 12-03-2010 08:16 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I would say no. The rules say no decals, texture projection works on the same principles as decals, it's just another method of doing it. I have nothing against external lightmaps if you're smart enough to figure out what I mean by that.


BTW, I was seriously sick last Saturday and was hospitalized. I became severely dehydrated due to not being able to keep any water down and my blood pressure fell and hit the floor. I was so dehydrated, I couldn't pee for an entire day. I was hooked up to an I.V. and they pumped about 2 litres of water in me. So now I'm under doctor's orders to drink a much larger quantity of water than normal. I'm just saying...



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-03-2010 08:49 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HOLY SHIT what the hell happened...? oh well, at least you're in good health now and perfectly capable of peeing on all of your enemies.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-04-2010 01:11 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


So I CAN't manipulate lightmaps in editor, but I can "hack" lightmaps in bsp file? I have suspicion you two guys don't like me...

Obsidian - are you seriously seriuos, or is it only the pee menace? But anyway, to drink a lot of water will cause that only almost clear water will go out. So there is nothing we shoud be worried about :D Thank to the secret powers of nautre for Obsidian's hydratation :)




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-04-2010 01:15 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
I would say no. The rules say no decals, texture projection works on the same principles as decals, it's just another method of doing it. I have nothing against external lightmaps if you're smart enough to figure out what I mean by that.


BTW, I was seriously sick last Saturday and was hospitalized. I became severely dehydrated due to not being able to keep any water down and my blood pressure fell and hit the floor. I was so dehydrated, I couldn't pee for an entire day. I was hooked up to an I.V. and they pumped about 2 litres of water in me. So now I'm under doctor's orders to drink a much larger quantity of water than normal. I'm just saying...


I'm with Obsidian on this.



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 12-04-2010 06:59 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yeah, I understand the use of this (as a decal and such). I guess I was curious to see this more than anything. :P I agree too.



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Warrior
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PostPosted: 12-04-2010 08:31 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@Noruen:

- use caulk brushes to make shadows
- compile the map
- export the lightmap
- delete the caulk brushes
- compile again
- import the lightmap
- profit

It's also possible to include decals into custom textures. Just tile the texture often enough, then insert one decal with your favorite graphics editor.

By the way, why are decals not allowed? A decal is a visible brush and should counted as one of the 20.



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