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Topic Starter Topic: Higgs boson found?

Tap, Nap, or Snap
Tap, Nap, or Snap

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 03:11 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-0 ... e-particle

I don't pretend to understand this stuff at all, as I really don't follow it closely, but there's been a lot of squawking about a new boson that could be the Higgs.




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Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu

Joined: 24 Nov 2000
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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 03:14 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


indeed. the ability to theoretically create one was recently announced, and now they seem to have succeeded.
this changes. everything.




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Glayven?
Glayven?

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 04:52 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


All this does is confirm what we already know. The media have no idea what they're screeching about and are acting like this discovery will give us all new physics....or sumthin.

"God particle" lol...




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 05:26 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


GONNAFISTYA wrote:
All this does is confirm what we already know. The media have no idea what they're screeching about and are acting like this discovery will give us all new physics....or sumthin.

"God particle" lol...


I'm definitely glad I came here and read this, because my girlfriend's Dad, a fellow of the Royal Institution and professor at Caltech for NASA says that the discovery of this particle is one of the biggest findings in all of science.

He's gonna shit bricks when I tell him that he's talking shit because GONNAFISTYA, a guy on the net, says it's all meaningless.




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 05:33 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Can't imagine the feeling to have vindication/confirmation of something this huge after 30 years of practical experiment. The notion that someone could create such a seemingly crazy theory based on mathematics, then wait for technology to be invented so that it can be tested and proven is just incredible. Just shows you how much weight theoretical physics really carries.




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Glayven?
Glayven?

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 06:13 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


0psys wrote:
GONNAFISTYA wrote:
All this does is confirm what we already know. The media have no idea what they're screeching about and are acting like this discovery will give us all new physics....or sumthin.

"God particle" lol...


I'm definitely glad I came here and read this, because my girlfriend's Dad, a fellow of the Royal Institution and professor at Caltech for NASA says that the discovery of this particle is one of the biggest findings in all of science.

He's gonna shit bricks when I tell him that he's talking shit because GONNAFISTYA, a guy on the net, says it's all meaningless.


I never said it was meaningless, I said it confirmed what we already knew. Are you a moron or something? Perhaps your girlfriend's dad can seep some of his intelligence youre way, because you continually look dumber and dumber (and really fucking bitter) every time you post.




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Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 06:14 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


we didn't know, we theorized and assumed.

and by "we" I mean "they"




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Glayven?
Glayven?

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 06:16 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Read up on dark matter and dark energy...they are two intractable components of physics (like the Higgs boson) that we've integrated into our knowledge base without knowing exactly what they are.

But hey I'm sure if we found the particles for dark energy and dark matter sys0p would find a way to be bitter about it.




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 06:40 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


GONNAFISTYA wrote:

I never said it was meaningless, I said it confirmed what we already knew. Are you a moron or something? Perhaps your girlfriend's dad can seep some of his intelligence youre way, because you continually look dumber and dumber (and really fucking bitter) every time you post.


You kind of did say it was meaningless. At the very least, you implied simultaneously that it wasn't really a big deal, and that you, personally, were slightly superior to everyone who'd got excited about it.

And no, it didn't confirm what "we" already knew, it validated key mathematical equations that predicated its existence.

Again though, people who disagree with you aren't automatically "bitter" about some perceived slight; stop being such an egomaniac.




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Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 06:42 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I've had to listen to my brother rant on and on about pretty much everything astrophysical. I'm well aware of dark matter and its kin sir.




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Glayven?
Glayven?

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 06:53 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


0psys wrote:
You kind of did say it was meaningless. At the very least, you implied simultaneously that it wasn't really a big deal, and that you, personally, were slightly superior to everyone who'd got excited about it.

And no, it didn't confirm what "we" already knew, it validated key mathematical equations that predicated its existence.


Exactly...what the discovery of the Higgs boson has done has confirmed that "probably" the Standard Model is nearly 100% complete. The reason this discovery was so "important" is that it allowed us to move forward with our current theories on physics without having to completely turn everything upside down and rethink physics.

Like I said...the media are acting like we've discovered new physics. That's the part that I'm turning my nose up against...the inevitable media circus.

As to how you interpret my posts I'll leave that to you and your bitter world to understand. I have an idea...why don't you put me back on your ignore list?

0psys wrote:
Again though, people who disagree with you aren't automatically "bitter" about some perceived slight; stop being such an egomaniac.


Who the fuck is disagreeing with whom? You are insane.

And seriously...the sheer amount of projection you put onto people here for shit you do constantly is nothing short of incredible....and insane.




Last edited by GONNAFISTYA on 07-04-2012 06:55 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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no homo
no homo

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 06:55 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


GONNAFISTYA wrote:
I never said it was meaningless, I said it confirmed what we already knew. Are you a moron or something? Perhaps your girlfriend's dad can seep some of his intelligence youre way, because you continually look dumber and dumber (and really fucking bitter) every time you post.


your



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Unquantifiable Abstract
Unquantifiable Abstract

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 07:05 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


0psys wrote:
Can't imagine the feeling to have vindication/confirmation of something this huge after 30 years of practical experiment. The notion that someone could create such a seemingly crazy theory based on mathematics, then wait for technology to be invented so that it can be tested and proven is just incredible. Just shows you how much weight theoretical physics really carries.


It must be amazing for all involved

I'm pleased with myself when I decide to trying something new with chicken and it pays off a few hours later, never mind theorising the basic building blocks of the universe. I'd class that as a good days work in fairness...




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 07:16 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Don Carlos wrote:
0psys wrote:
Can't imagine the feeling to have vindication/confirmation of something this huge after 30 years of practical experiment. The notion that someone could create such a seemingly crazy theory based on mathematics, then wait for technology to be invented so that it can be tested and proven is just incredible. Just shows you how much weight theoretical physics really carries.


It must be amazing for all involved

I'm pleased with myself when I decide to trying something new with chicken and it pays off a few hours later, never mind theorising the basic building blocks of the universe. I'd class that as a good days work in fairness...


LOL, yeah, it's like imagining Teriyaki chicken, but having to wait for the technology to create teriyaki, then combining them and realising it tastes fucking awesome!




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Cool #9
Cool #9

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 08:17 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I say from now on, we refer to the Higgs Boson as chicken teriyaki



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Unquantifiable Abstract
Unquantifiable Abstract

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 08:22 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I concur




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Elite
Elite

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 08:23 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


GKY is right, nothing will really change with this, no matter what laymorons and eager news sites want you to believe.

On the other hand, an idea over 50 years old is just about to be proven correct with an accuracy level that would make even the most pedantic of us lose interest.

In the right circles this is huge! But a new soda flavor at the quickie-mart will probably be more life changing, to the general public than this finding.




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Unquantifiable Abstract
Unquantifiable Abstract

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 08:28 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Tsakali wrote:
But a new soda flavor at the quickie-mart will probably be more life changing, to the general public than this finding.


2 ultra retarded posts in one day - I am impressed




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Elite
Elite

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 08:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


oh yeah ? how is a unification theory gonna affect your life? just shut up.




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 08:44 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Tsakali wrote:
GKY is right, nothing will really change with this, no matter what laymorons and eager news sites want you to believe.

On the other hand, an idea over 50 years old is just about to be proven correct with an accuracy level that would make even the most pedantic of us lose interest.

In the right circles this is huge! But a new soda flavor at the quickie-mart will probably be more life changing, to the general public than this finding.


See, I haven't seen a single news story portray this find in the way you or GFY say. The ones I've read have kept to the fact that it is a confirmation of a widely held but as-yet-unproven belief.




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Glayven?
Glayven?

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 08:46 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


lol




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 09:12 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Tsakali wrote:
oh yeah ? how is a unification theory gonna affect your life? just shut up.


This find isn't related to unification theory. The Higgs Boson underpins the Standard Model of particle physics, but it's existence, as I understand it, doesn't move science any closer or further from a reliable unification theory.




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Lead Pipe Mafia
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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 09:18 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


They haven't discovered the Higgs bozon, they just found a mass that's similar to the higgs and is PROBABLY the higgs but it's not confirmed yet. They would need to confirm the spin is 0 and other variables to confirm this is the higgs, it's just likely that it is.




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Elite
Elite

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 09:20 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


0psys wrote:
Tsakali wrote:
GKY is right, nothing will really change with this, no matter what laymorons and eager news sites want you to believe.

On the other hand, an idea over 50 years old is just about to be proven correct with an accuracy level that would make even the most pedantic of us lose interest.

In the right circles this is huge! But a new soda flavor at the quickie-mart will probably be more life changing, to the general public than this finding.


See, I haven't seen a single news story portray this find in the way you or GFY say. The ones I've read have kept to the fact that it is a confirmation of a widely held but as-yet-unproven belief.

the problem is not in the underlying facts, but the way they present it as if THIS will finally let us time travel or go faster than the speed of light, or get GKY to look good in bootcut jeans.
The real impressive feat in my eyes is the construction of the particle accelerator ... the amount of engineering and science brain flexing that is on display. This is the Antikythera Mechanism of our generation.




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Elite
Elite

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 09:23 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


0psys wrote:
Tsakali wrote:
oh yeah ? how is a unification theory gonna affect your life? just shut up.


This find isn't related to unification theory. The Higgs Boson underpins the Standard Model of particle physics, but it's existence, as I understand it, doesn't move science any closer or further from a reliable unification theory.

I was under the impression that since this is what gives mass to something, it would finally bring the weak force into perspective in relation to all other forces. :shrug:




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 09:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Tsakali wrote:
the problem is not in the underlying facts, but the way they present it as if THIS will finally let us time travel or go faster than the speed of light, or get GKY to look good in bootcut jeans.
The real impressive feat in my eyes is the construction of the particle accelerator ... the amount of engineering and science brain flexing that is on display. This is the Antikythera Mechanism of our generation.


Again, though, I haven't seen any news sites portray it how you say it. First hit from Google brings up the BBC report: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18702455

Seems pretty solid to me, there's nothing in there that seems to tally with what you're saying. Maybe US websites are a bit different?

Also, what's really wrong with sites acting that way? These discoveries, and the potential hyperbole they generate are the kind of stories that inspire the younger generations to follow science. If a kid now Googles Higgs Bosons as a result of a grandiose claim in the news, but finds it to be bullshit, then at the very least, something was still responsible for making a kid investigate particle physics.

I begin a physics degree at the end of this year (carrying the points over from a PPE degree), and it was stories like this that got me interested in physics in the first place.

But, like I say, I still haven't read anything that you describe on a credible news site. I'm also surprised nobody has linked an example.




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 09:33 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Tsakali wrote:
I was under the impression that since this is what gives mass to something, it would finally bring the weak force into perspective in relation to all other forces. :shrug:


It depends what kind of Higgs Boson was discovered. It could be one that conforms to the Standard Model, in which case particle physics would simply be more complete, or, it could exhibit unexpected behavior which would suggest that something else is out there. If it's one that conforms to the current Standard Model, then we know nothing new, because the mathematics that predicated it 50 years ago is simply confirmed as being right, meaning we've always known about its behavior in relation to other particles.




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Elite
Elite

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 09:40 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


getting the new generation excited is all good and well, but you can't have a factual article induce high levels of layman interest without being in risk of sensationalism. Also, I don't think any site has precisely used any of the 3 claims I mentioned but they 'sound' that way, and that's the kind of shit people start thinking about.

here for instance:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... esday.html

you'll find the quote:
"The Higgs boson is regarded as the key to understanding the universe"
Which is sensationalizing to say the least. There are a few other gems like that on most articles I've come up to.

you might say this is not a reputable site, but these are the types of sites most people get their info from.




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Lead Pipe Mafia
Lead Pipe Mafia

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 09:43 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yeah but it's not confirmed this is the Higgs Bozon. Even if it was, it'd be decades or longer before anything materialized from that knowledge. The theory of its existence has been around awhile, we're not learning anything new, we're just confirming what we think we know and right now, they've confirmed a new state at 125 GeV that's consistent with the Higgs but as far as confirming it's the Higgs bozon we're not there yet.




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 09:52 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Tsakali wrote:
getting the new generation excited is all good and well, but you can't have a factual article induce high levels of layman interest without being in risk of sensationalism. Also, I don't think any site has precisely used any of the 3 claims I mentioned but they 'sound' that way, and that's the kind of shit people start thinking about.

here for instance:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... esday.html

you'll find the quote:
"The Higgs boson is regarded as the key to understanding the universe"
Which is sensationalizing to say the least. There are a few other gems like that on most articles I've come up to.

you might say this is not a reputable site, but these are the types of sites most people get their info from.


While the article is slightly sensational, there's not much hyperbole in the quote you selected. It is ONE of the keys to understanding the universe at the sub-atomic level.

Please don't think I'm defending the Daily Mail, though, I'd slit my wrists before I defended that site.

Also, the comments on that article are LOL




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Glayven?
Glayven?

Joined: 23 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 10:01 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Man this sys0p douche loves to argue with people who aren't really arguing with him.

Perhaps his court-mandated anger management counselor would have something in their notes about this?




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 10:12 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Κracus wrote:
Yeah but it's not confirmed this is the Higgs Bozon. Even if it was, it'd be decades or longer before anything materialized from that knowledge. The theory of its existence has been around awhile, we're not learning anything new, we're just confirming what we think we know and right now, they've confirmed a new state at 125 GeV that's consistent with the Higgs but as far as confirming it's the Higgs bozon we're not there yet.


It's something ridiculous like 1 in 2,000,000 chance of it being something else though. At the very least, all the CERN naysayers can no longer say it was a waste of money and effort.




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Elite
Elite

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 10:43 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


to get such a project going with a ROI of intellectual enlightenment simply, is a very impressive feat. It almost gives me hope for the future of humanity.

Granted , there will probably be money generated for universities and other institutions through faculty accolades, but this ain't your typical 'business major' game plan.




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 11:13 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Definitely. They're talking about building a bigger one for some other experiment, but I'd like to see them get funding in this climate.

Probably decades away.




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Elite
Elite

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PostPosted: 07-04-2012 11:19 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


what other experiment? :ducky:




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