Learning Blender 2.7.3

[AEon]

Sorry to open a thread on this... but I am trying to learn Blender, and there seem to be a few things in the design philosophy that you cannot really look up in the manual, since they think that is normal .

1. Can it be that a global snap to grid does not really exist? I found all sorts of specific snapping, but when transforming the initial cube Rotate and Scale (I have bottom icons: Snap during transform and Snap Element, Increment) turned on, they neither rotate snap nor scale snap. Translate works at least.

2. As I understand it, the editing in Blender initially pretty much centres on the the origin of the 3D view? Not like in Radiant where you normally could not care less where you start work?

3. Tips of properly setting up the grid to actually relate to GTKradiant's grid would be helpful. I found a tutorial that converts to Q3A .map format, but they guy already finished building his content. Blender uses a "floating point grid"... ieek.

4. Tips on where to download the proper Q3A Map import/export modules would help. I found something but that seems to have been for Q2.

Hope we have a few Blender experts that can help out to better understand the concepts behind Blender vs. Radiant.

-= AEon Does =- a modelling tool

Thanks.

[Ferrao10]

blender towards q3 level-editing? kats-bits.

Not the torrent site but the other one

[Theftbot]

1.-- shift-TAB(incrementing snapping) works for translating/rotating/scaling though if your in 8 grid/subdiv. still scales in 1/10th increment
2.-- pretty much yes though alot of the tools work by the 3d Cursor(location)
3.-- Blender grid settings are accessed by pressing n key over to the right in the display settings lines 16/scale 1.00/subdivisions 8
most of the map exporters use 100% as scale use 64% to make a default cube a 128^3 brush in radiant
4.-- There is no map importer(it would be really nice though) but for 2.73 this: https://github.com/BabylonJS/Babylon.js ... rs/Blender works well

[Theftbot]

also: If you set the display grid to lines 16/scale .64/subdivisions 8 then you can use 100% in exporter scale

[AEon]

Thanks... figured out the grid one... though my settings for that seem to have been reset again after reloading Blender.

5. Is there a way to make Blender remember the interface layout I choose? E.g. I use ctrl+cursor up to maximize the interface and remove all the animation/scene stuff I don't need. And also reorder the panels under "n"... but none of that gets saved. I would be hoping for some form of interface session saving. Or simply for the editor to just remember what I set up.

6. Is there a fly mode in Blender? You can rotate around the origin (MMB, I hacked it to the RMB) (world or object etc), pan the view (shift+MMB), and zoom in/out (ctrl+MMB)... strangely the cursor keys (so far) do not seem to be used at all?

7. I noted that you can turn on "modules" for all sorts of things in the preferences IIRC. Are these actually available on restarting Blender? Had the feeling I was missing something.

8. Is there a way to Bevel objects? Have not yet found it. Have to read up on edge, face, and vertex mode though yet.

[spoiler]Some whining: I still have the feeling every single thing that should be boundlessly trivial to do, like put selected brush into a group, select another one also add it to that group, since I assume it to be the active one fails. A new group was created for the second brush. I wonder if the RC 2.7.3 I am testing is actually so broken... apparently whoever went to an insane amount of work to create the interface, thinks around bends all the time. Or I am just too stupid... sigh. As if the intuitive way to do it has been avoided on purpose... heaven forbid you can trial and error how something works. If id had forced to us to build maps with Blender, only modellers would have created maps, and possibly very beautiful they might have been. But easy brush manipulation this ain't. Just goes to show how ingeniously intuitive Reflex is as an editor (OK it does have almost no features ). Sorry about that... I am just not tough enough, like modellers seem to be.[/spoiler]

[Theftbot]

5.-- Make a bare mapping blend file w/your settings,or save startup file Ctrl-U
6.-- Fly mode SHIFT-f move around WASD.
7.-- In Preferences on the bottom is a "Save User Settings" button that saves them.
8.-- In the specials menu(edit mode w-key) there is bevel.

[AEon]

I seem to have made a cardinal mistake of hiding the scene panel... that makes some things clearer.

I just bevelled a cube, and noted that the way I created it in Radiant was wrong in the corners, the corners should be triangles. Anyway that tool alone is worth understanding the editor...

Watching beginner tutorials... apparently a faster way to learn than trying to read the manual.

[Hipshot]

Youtube is your channel man, usually much easier than reading when it comes to learning how to use an application in the beginning.

[AEon]

Indeed found this series of tutorials on YT: Blender Basics (6 parts) for Blender v2.6.6... they are slightly old, and v2.7.3 has changed, but these explain many things. I'd recommend you listen, and then with Blender open, retry the little tests to see that you can repeat them. Especially the "Modeling" one is crammed with info.

Using 3ds Max theme in Blender now... I am such a traitor .

[dONKEY]

Slightly off topic. After reading this thread, and your other, it reminded me of chats I used to have with Kat about the use of staitic meshes in level design. Regarding how the editor is much of a compositor now, with assets designed in a third party application.
Even with Q3, I mostly map that way now. Looking at Hipshot's source files, it seems he has been doing it too.
The two things I really wish had been added to Radiant (or Q3map2) were a one click method of creating ase models and allowing simplified collision hulls to be part of the model. That feature made using models in Q4 so much easier.

[cityy]

Regarding how the editor is much of a compositor now, with assets designed in a third party application.
Even with Q3, I mostly map that way now. Looking at Hipshot's source files, it seems he has been doing it too.

And then there are fools like me who can't be arsed to wrap their had around UV mapping. I admire you guys for having the patience to deal with this!

[Hipshot]

I'm doing it a lot, however, many of my modeled shapes are made in radiant and then exported to ASE using Q3map2. But more complex angles and shapes, I do in Max like the trees and the terrain in my levels are vertex painted and shaped also in max.

I should be moving over from max to blender too really, mostly because it's free. I really really like max though and have been using it for so many years now.

I'm gonna investigate further. When you work low-poly like I do, all these applications are more or less the same in it's basic functions.

[Theftbot]

dONKEY:

[AEon]

Well... figured out how the bevel thing works, and applied it to a cube... that was really interesting. Next need to figure out how clipping works. There seems to be some form of "knife" command... hmm... and get the import/export to Q3A installed and tested.

Anyway, here a animated bevelled glass cube... that used up 100% of my i7 920 four cores... uncanny:

• Glass_Cube_Bevelled_001-0140.mp4 (688 KB, on MediaFire)

The last time I really tried to create something was on my Amiga 4000... about 20 years ago... we do seem to have come a ways .

I have to admit I am starting to like what Blender can do... even though I still find basic navigation less than ideal. But key frame animation and rendering can quickly be learned watching a tutorial.

[AEon]

4.-- There is no map importer(it would be really nice though) but for 2.73 this: https://github.com/BabylonJS/Babylon.js ... rs/Blender works well

Alas, simply do not know how to download the files. It certainly cannot only be one file... there is no zip download activated...

And
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/eternalcoding/a ... ender.aspx
then explains how to install the plugin.

I even developed "AEradiant" for a very brief time on GitHub, and back then you could download the latest compiles... hmm...

[Theftbot]

http://www.filedropper.com/ioscenemap

[AEon]

Thank you... that works for export to Q3A .map... is there a import .map also available?


Installing above Exporter:
For those interested, the above exporter needs to be unpacked into:

• Blender\<version number>\scripts\addons\

creating the io_scene_map folder there. Launch Blender, then under File menu, User Preferences, Add-ons tab, find Import-Export: Quake MAP format, enable the addon, and do not forget to hit the Save User Settings button at the bottom of the window. You may need to restart Blender for the addon to take (not sure, I did). After you then create some primitives, select the ones you want to export, use File menu, Export, Quake MAP (.map) to save them in Q3 map format. In Radiant use File menu, Import... to load the primitives into the editor.


Been testing a bit, your suggestion for grid Scale 0.800 leads from a 1.6 sided cube to 160u in Radiant, so 0.01 = 1u.

I noted that the bevel tool actually hollows out the inside of the cube. Is there some way to fill out a hollow object in Blender? I.e. to later do a CSG merge and turn it all into one brush?

Update:
Created a 0.64³ cube in Blender (that is a 64³u³ one in Radiant), turned on Edit Mode, then via Ctrl+B (Bevel) manually set offset to 0.04, segments 1 and profile 0.5 (?), the rest unselected. This recreates "exactly" (dimensions and mostly in shape) the brush cubes in Radiant. But when importing this in Radiant, the brushes (now angled) that define all 12 bevelled cube edges have gone missing. I.e are not loaded and shown by Radiant. Seems these are sub-unit or something... for the larger 160³u³ cube it worked. Hopefully I did not set up something properly...

[dONKEY]

@Theftbot, that's useful, but not quite what I meant.
Remember region compiles?
I thought it would be useful, within a working map, to be able to select a group and compile/convert with a single click, model save in the correct place etc. It's no big deal to manually do it, but in a large map and working with a ton of details, it would streamline the work process.

[Hipshot]

Hmm, Aeon, I think that you might be going in the wrong direction here. I think you should make the bulk of your level in radiant and then use a modeling application to create assets for the level instead.

[AEon]

Hmm... I actually am... I only did the bevelled cube as a Blender test... so created that asset in Blender... it turns out the "asset" fails to import properly into Radiant. And the cube is the most trivial case... so this does not bode well at all.

The bevelling in Microbrush 3 on the other hand may be different but at least works without problems.

There seems to be an import/export path for Blender that uses ASE models. That might be more stable... but I really do not want to build everything in Radiant in models... since the lighting is inferior to brushwork. I have seen Sock actually texture ASE models via model parameters... but it certainly would not be like texture painting to recolour or caulk the ASE models. Hmm...

[Hipshot]

Lightmaps are not inferior on models, just use "spawnflags 4" on them, so they actually gets lightmapped =)

[phantazm11]

I have seen Sock actually texture ASE models via model parameters...

I would like to see more information concerning this. Do you know where you would have seen this. Everything I find concerning texturing models has to do with UV mapping and painting the texture from that.


Also, did you make sure that the models was tripled (or that the quad polygons were all converted into triangles) when you were exporting. I'm not 100% sure that all ASE exporters do that for you automatically, and your model won't import into Radiant with quads.

[AEon]

I have seen Sock actually texture ASE models via model parameters...

I would like to see more information concerning this. Do you know where you would have seen this. Everything I find concerning texturing models has to do with UV mapping and painting the texture from that.

If you look at Sock's Pyramid of the Magicial source files... i.e. the .map and then check the properties of the ferns (plants), IIRC that is where I found that. I then used it in AEdm7 a bit... I think on the cubes too... checked on the ferns in AEdm7... green ones and dead ones... they both use the same ASE model, but different textures set under the model's properties (N-key) in Radiant using:

Code: Select all

model models/mapobjects/aedm7/pom_shrub01a.ase
but
_remap *;textures/aedm7/pom_leave01b
and
_remap *;textures/aedm7/pom_leave01d

Turns out the "_remap" is a q3map2 directive.

These "textures" are actually shaders:
[spoiler]

Code: Select all

// ****************
// **** PLANTS ****
// ****************

textures/aedm7/pom_leave01d		// fern (dead)
{
	qer_editorimage textures/aedm7/pom_leave01d.tga
//	q3map_backShader textures/aedm7/pom_leave01d_back
	q3map_vertexScale 1.5
	qer_alphafunc greater 0.5
	surfaceparm alphashadow
	surfaceparm trans
	surfaceparm nonsolid
	surfaceparm nomarks
	{
		map textures/aedm7/pom_leave01d.tga
		rgbGen vertex
		depthWrite
		alphaFunc GE128
	}
}

textures/aedm7/pom_leave01d_back
{
	surfaceparm trans
	surfaceparm nonsolid
	surfaceparm nomarks
	{
		map textures/aedm7/pom_leave01d.tga
		rgbGen const ( 0.2 0.2 0.2 )
		alphaFunc GE128
	}
}

[/spoiler]
You should be seeing all this in Sock's Pyramid of the Magician... I am using less plant models in AEdm7.

Hope that helps.

Also, did you make sure that the models was tripled (or that the quad polygons were all converted into triangles) when you were exporting. I'm not 100% sure that all ASE exporters do that for you automatically, and your model won't import into Radiant with quads.

I didn't do that... and have no idea where to find that option in Blender... hmm... would explain my problems. Note I am using the io_scene_map exporter, that saves .map files, not ASE ones. Should that make a difference.

[phantazm11]

I thought you were talking about texturing inside the model program using Radiant-like texturing methods. I assumed that from something he posted in his thread...I'm going to ask him about that.

Converting Quadrangles to Triangles in Blender:

Code: Select all

Mode: Edit mode

Hotkey: CtrlT

Menu: Mesh » Faces » Convert Quads to Triangles or Face Specials » Triangulate

As its name intimates, this tool converts each selected quadrangle into two triangles. Remember that quads are just a set of two triangles… Note that it does not work on FGons. 

I always do this RIGHT BEFORE I EXPORT and I don't save the model after it is tripled in order to preserve the quads in case I need to make changes to the model later. It is always better to work with quads (IMHO) because it is harder to apply complex changes later on if the model is tripled (beveling, extruding, etc.)

Does that make sense?

That applies to ASE models...I don't have a clue how your .map exporter handles the conversion, but it is worth a try.

[AEon]

I only a few moments ago found the command as well... Edit mode, have all faces selected, Mesh menu, Faces, Triangulate Faces (Ctrl+T) its now called in 2.7.3 RC.

Keeping the quads, since those are Blenders "inherent" faces, makes total sense. Then again this is pretty much the case in Radiant as well. Only us "nuts" manually miter, and we probably all found out what a pain it is to work with mitered geometry.

My own test, followed your steps exactly, bevelled "finial" cube, selected all faces, Ctrl+T, checked indeed all faces were turned into triangles... exported as .map, loaded into Radiant same problem. The bevelled edges are not loaded, all the more strange since the bevelled corners and faces are all there.

Good tip... though I still suspect that sub-unit issue. Checked the .map file, and it is totally off grid, ever so slightly. Select all, vertex mode and Ctrl+G in Radiant seems get the vertices on the grid again. Even with the missing edges, the way brushes are created for Radiant, it really seems to be less and less worth the bother... if even simple geometry already has such issues. Hmmm....

Something I may try is to simply use a base "module" that is 128³u³ and create that size in Blender... import to Radiant and then scale it down there... though that sounds evil. Nope the thin edges seem to be the issue in relation the the cube size itself.... so much for that.