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Topic Starter Topic: Q4 - Kat's Cradle - kat
Kat
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 11:56 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


With the release of the VIA map pack I can finally do the usual pimage here of Kat's Cradle (or "How not to build a tourney map"!).

As per usual it's a 'cave' map and surfaces are relative uneven so don't be expecting a smooth ride - the advantage of this is that it does test you're skills a bit more than usual (at least it does for me).

Uses custom models and textures all of which were modelled in Blender 3D - I'll be releasing the source files at some point soon for anyone interested in taking a look at te models in the raw.

Irony factoid - Despite the complants that generally surround Doom 3 / Quake 4 mapping regarding lighting being on the dark side, this map is actually brighter then kat1024, go figure! :icon25: Having said that though, lighting is a bitch :icon6:

Downloads
Direct download from VIAcga - download is c. 8MB
Mirrors will go up as and when so pop over to Kat's Cradle @ Quake3Bits for more info on that as it happens!

Screenshots
[lvlshot]http://www.quake3bits.com/images/maps/kat_q4dm1/quake_4_dm1_3.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://www.quake3bits.com/images/maps/kat_q4dm1/quake_4_dm1_1.jpg[/lvlshot]
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StormShadow
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 01:38 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Finally got a chance to play this one.. its gorgeous :) Lots of fun to bounce around in as well.. it would make a great FFA.

GJ!



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Jenny
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 01:49 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The person who reaches Railgun first would have great advantage. Not tourney map, possibly a FFA.

but WOW, so unique and good looking, excellent.
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Kat
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 02:17 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Jenny wrote:
The person who reaches Railgun first would have great advantage. Not tourney map, possibly a FFA.

but WOW, so unique and good looking, excellent.
Yeah, I had a really hard time deciding whether to leave that in or not. In the end I left it in place in favour of it being in a relatively open area.

You're both right though, it's *really* a FFA map badly disguised as a tourney map! I just entered it to the comp for the hell of it :p
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QuakerX
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 02:20 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Love it. Very original. Going to play some games on this later after work...
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Method
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 02:21 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


If there was a way to clip all those surfaces, so you can ramp jump everywhere the map will be very fast-like. Good job on the very unique map, Kat.

-Method



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Kat
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 02:28 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Method wrote:
If there was a way to clip all those surfaces, so you can ramp jump everywhere the map will be very fast-like. Good job on the very unique map, Kat.

-Method
Oddly enough the map *was* heavily clipped originally but in doing that it revealed some really, really bad collision problems - Quake 4 simply doesn't like brushes being burried in models, for some reason it can't tell the difference between surfaces properly, so clipping a floor or wall will often have you dropping or passing through them. The only thing that seems to work is to leave as much as possible of the floor surfaces as unclipped models and then use 'flat' clipping along the walls.

I quizzed the Raven guys about this and was told they had similar problems and had to remove a lot of modelled areas becasue of it.
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Method
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 03:07 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


On a side note, one of the first things I noticed when I begun building my map, was that unlike Doom 3, Quake 4 player model will stay on the clip brush. In Doom 3, the model actually touched the floor, even though it was covered with clip. I had to remove some clip brushes too, because the player appeared to be floating when I expected the model to touch the floor.

-Method



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seremtan
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 03:12 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


that looks shit hot :icon14:
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Jenny
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 03:24 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Kat wrote:
Yeah, I had a really hard time deciding whether to leave that in or not. In the end I left it in place in favour of it being in a relatively open area.


Large open areas don't work as good as Q3. Mainly because of scaling.. slower rockets, shorter LG beam, overpowered RG(due to bigger hitboxes), nailgun has slow projectile speed and HB is weak(compared to Q3 plasma). Q4 is rail, rail, rail with a touch of mg/hb on such maps.
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+JuggerNaut+
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 04:44 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


gorgeous :up:
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Munsie
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 05:05 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Very nice looking, Two.. Radiant textures up.. Yea, similar to thumbs I suppose?

~Munsie
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Geit
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 05:29 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Looks absolutely amazing!



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Oeloe
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 06:13 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


My A64 3200+ w. GF6800 GS drops to 53 fps in the most open area on this map. :o Perhaps you should have put those crevasse death traps near the railgun. :)
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jester!
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 06:26 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


How about with vertex on Oeloe? P4 3gig 6600GT, locked at 63 with vertex.
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pjw
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 08:56 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


One of the coolest Q4 maps I've seen yet. This has a really wonderful look to it, and the lighting is really nicely done. Gorgeous.

And yeah, I don't know if I would have left RG in, but...shrug. I might have, at that. :)

This is a keeper.



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Kat
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 10:02 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


pjw wrote:
One of the coolest Q4 maps I've seen yet. This has a really wonderful look to it, and the lighting is really nicely done. Gorgeous.

And yeah, I don't know if I would have left RG in, but...shrug. I might have, at that. :)

This is a keeper.
Thanks pjw.

I can in all honesty say that a good 2/3rds of the time spent on the map build was *just* on the lighting. I think part of the problem there was me not planning the map properly in relation to the light volumes on such a 'soft' featured map - it makes hiding the volume bounderies tricky.

So generally speaking then is the railGun a more dominant weapon in Quake 4 than it was in Quake 3? I can't say I noticed myself when I was testing the map with some buddies but I'm not a 'railer'.
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Black_Dog
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 10:08 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Quote:
On a side note, one of the first things I noticed when I begun building my map, was that unlike Doom 3, Quake 4 player model will stay on the clip brush. In Doom 3, the model actually touched the floor, even though it was covered with clip. I had to remove some clip brushes too, because the player appeared to be floating when I expected the model to touch the floor.


Doom 3 uses an IK solver to ensure that the player's feet will touch the "floor" (that is, anything solid to IK) regardless of the actual player entity position. Some of the clip types are not solid to IK, so the player can appear to pass through that clip and be standing properly on the floor.

Since in Quake 4 there is no use of IK the player will stand on clip brushes, and any difference between the visual and collision geometry will look wierd.
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wviperw
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PostPosted: 02-03-2006 11:04 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Quote:
So generally speaking then is the railGun a more dominant weapon in Quake 4 than it was in Quake 3? I can't say I noticed myself when I was testing the map with some buddies but I'm not a 'railer'.


Yes, very much so. The main reason is because hit boxes are bigger than in Q3 (plus the entire scale of Q4 is kinda screwy), so it is easier to hit your target. Add to this some of the maps that are played (e.g. - Lost Fleet) and it's not uncommon to hit 50-60% rail in a game. Lots of games are coming down to who has the better rail, which is just silly.



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Dr4ch
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PostPosted: 02-04-2006 04:44 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Really outstanding but i really miss a waterfall ;)
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Geit
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PostPosted: 02-04-2006 12:10 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


After trying it out, I can see how this wouldn't be a succesful Tourney map, but it looks breath-taking, absolutely great work on that and it works nicely as a FFA map.



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sock
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PostPosted: 02-04-2006 08:01 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Awesome, looks breathtaking from the screenshots.
Good work kat :)

Sock



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Geit
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PostPosted: 02-04-2006 09:12 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


sock wrote:
Awesome, looks breathtaking from the screenshots.
Good work kat :)

Sock

Hey Sock, you still here? :icon25:



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sock
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PostPosted: 02-04-2006 10:28 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Geit wrote:
Hey Sock, you still here? :icon25:


Sometimes I stop playing WoW and surf forums, but most of the time Im lost in WoW.

Sock



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Kat
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PostPosted: 02-04-2006 10:48 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


sock wrote:
most of the time Im lost in WoW...
'Oblivion' awaits ;)
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pjw
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PostPosted: 02-04-2006 11:32 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


sock wrote:
Awesome, looks breathtaking from the screenshots.
Good work kat :)

Sock


You *do* realize that we know who you are even if you don't sign your posts...right? ;)

And yeah, Oblivion. :drool:
I have never been this excited about a game. I just start thinking about Oblivion and how cool it's going to be and how many hours I'm going to spend playing it, and

Image

Oops, sorry. That keeps happening--I'll get a tissue and clean off your thread...
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Inition
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PostPosted: 02-07-2006 07:54 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


pjw: you need help!
kat: awesome release! Its really a stunning map.
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surgeon62
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PostPosted: 02-08-2006 08:58 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


pjw wrote:
I have never been this excited about a game. I just start thinking about Oblivion and how cool it's going to be and how many hours I'm going to spend playing it, and

[lvlshot]http://www.planetquake.com/pjw/grafix/cum.gif[/lvlshot]

Oops, sorry. That keeps happening--I'll get a tissue and clean off your thread...


ROFL :p

Awesome map. It is great to see a map that doesn't have the boxy textures/ angular layout that a lot of the Q4 maps coming out now have. I usually only look here for maps, but are there other maps out now that are more unusual like this one? I have always liked the more unusual maps for Q3.



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Kat
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PostPosted: 02-08-2006 03:09 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


If you mean 'terrain' type maps then no, there aren't that many. LvL is the only place I know where there are a couple of mappers doing interesting work (none standard 'box' maps)
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