Items and layout alpha...

[Hipshot]

(removed link)

I need help with how to place items and weapons in this map, and also if there are any major layout issues that needs fixed.
I find the map kinda fun, cause you can jump and trick alot on this, and its also pretty high, which I find cool. Its a large map, larger than DM6.

There are 2 teleporters, 1 jump pad, 1 MH, 1 RA, 1 YA, 2 Shotguns, 1 RL, 1 LG, 1 RG and some health and shards... I need to know how to place more items and weapons, cause I'm not very good at that.

Map's not caulked and not vised in any way, some people might find it easier to play using r_lightmap 1, since it might be easier to see then.
You don't need to worry about looks, I can garantee that it will look good when I'm done with it.

[lvlshot]http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6469/shot01418zk.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6060/shot01408ui.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5962/shot01459un.jpg[/lvlshot]

[Survivor]

Dear sir, it's so huge it feels like i'm using walk in quake. Nice for big games. Haven't concerned myself with layout. I'm not good at it either

[Hipshot]

Yea, its somekinda 8+ map or somthing...
I was suppoed to make a 1vs1 but can never stop myself :/ And now I like the design so much I won't scrap it.

[Lukin]

I've only took a glance at the map so I can't tell about item placement. To be honest I believe it's not that important in FFA :P I think there should be at least one powerup somewhere and more health.
Another thing is the layout. IMHO the map is too tall. Going up through all those stairs is just boring and kills the flow. "Horizontal layout" seems to be fine.

P.S. Remember to use -patchmeta. Some players use /r_subdivisions higher than default 4. In game it looks like that:

[o'dium]

Yeah, it really is HUGE in places, I mean totally over the top massive open bits I know its only early with no deail so i can only hope that you fill it more.

And also, your steps are to small it seems, it feels odd running up them?

[Hipshot]

Yea, I probably need to do something about the size,... hard to develop the map as for now... problem is where the hell should I cut it...

[Hipshot]

actually the stairs are standard 8us...

[CrinklyArse]

looks cool. but...
how'd i get your map to play?
i put it in baseq3 and did /map ht, but i guess i need something else cos its a bsp?

[o'dium]

looks cool. but...
how'd i get your map to play?
i put it in baseq3 and did /map ht, but i guess i need something else cos its a bsp?

no.

Just type sv_pure 0 before typin map ht.

[AEon]

Not sure what to comment either... so I'll just mention a few personal preferences when playing maps that possibly may help you...

1. The big question to ask is: Is the priority to make a bot playable FFA map. Or this more of a sculpture that happens to be also a FFA map. In the former case some of the visual/gag stuff (movers/traps) should be dropped for better gameflow. If the latter case, then go full blow architecture.
2. I don't like lifts. To me that is Quake2 not Q3A. I prefer jumppads.
3. You are using quite a few movers, for the RA and also the "pit of death" where you have to jump past two "squashers" to get a 25 health. Movers IMO always kill gameflow, because you can't properly keep running, you must stop and time. This is the case for the RA mover. The other case is basically a "trap", and traps are IMO single player and not for DM/FFA maps. Personally I'd remove the movers.
4. You are also using 3 "floating" platforms. The jump and run element will probably look quite cool, but gameflow-wise that is another annoyance. And what makes all the mover use even worse is bot support. Bots will have a very hard time understanding them. And lets face it our maps will primarily be played against bots. I'd keep the 3 platforms, add some cool support architecture under them, and nicely connect them with "bridges" to make it easy for bots. I'd kill the up/down movement completely.
5. I like the vision of the map, your arcs and how at one point in the map you can see 3-4 stairs criss crossing. That is very cool.
6. As someone pointed out vertical maps look cool, but that makes "normal" gameplay very hard on the player, since he will (at least I do) prefer horizontal gameplay for the most part. A way to approach this would be to define running paths on distinct levels, i.e. low level where the LG is, then some med level and a top level, and use the vertical design more for the look and less for the running paths. And then add a few architecture defined (ledges, holes in floors) etc. to connect the areas (different hight levels, with interesting shortcuts) to up on the gameflow dynamic.
7. I like your rounded off stairs, these are actually quite fun to run up. The long straight stairs on the other hand IMO take to long to get up.
8. In large maps I like to add acceleration pads to increase the game speed, and add some flying fun to the map. You might like to try jumppads that catapult players up those straight stairs, and place interesting items on the stairs, so that folks will be motivated to use the stairs at times, i.e. run *down* the stairs to get the items.
9. You are probably quite aware that player instinctively prefer to run about on the top level in a map. This makes the med and lower levels of the map important gameplay wise. If there is nothing here that "tempts" players, they will stay on the top level.
10. I normally place items last in an almost done map. So I have no idea how one would place extra items in this map, until the basic gameflow is there. Presently I have trouble in several areas imagining why a player would want to go there.
11. Cutting down the size in some areas will be tough, but once you are in the clear what paths should lead where you may get a better idea.
12. Something you may want to look into are all the pits of death. 5-6 times I nearly accidentally jumped into the abyss. Maybe add some architecture (i.e. railing) that helps the player understand where things get dangerous. Note: With too much abyss the player will *not* be able to navigate the map running backwards (well unless he is very skilled), for fear of falling off the map. A personal teleporter pickup might help folks avoid falling to their death.
13. Since the map is quite large, and if you *really* want to keep the open feel, then you may like to try to turn the map into a rail arena where the railgun is the weapon (several railguns in the map). I.e. for instagib. With all the stairs and long distances I have a hard time imagining how other weapon combat will work in FFA.
14. The Flight powerup may be something for this map. And add a Quad ... I love Quads )

Hope that is of some use.

[CrinklyArse]

looks cool. but...
how'd i get your map to play?
i put it in baseq3 and did /map ht, but i guess i need something else cos its a bsp?

no.

Just type sv_pure 0 before typin map ht.

didnt worky

[o'dium]

you did put it in /maps yes?

[CrinklyArse]

i did /map without the s

edit: and it says '/maps' is an unknown command.
edit2: sorry not trying to nick this thread or anything

[o'dium]

no. Did you put the file in baseq3/maps?

[CrinklyArse]

ohhhh no just baseq3 like i said

[CrinklyArse]

ok it worked, not got much to say about weapons but i would like to say thats mighty big! interesting map, wondered around for ages and still felt i had covered only half the map, it will make a very good rail whore map

[Lukin]

...

• As someone pointed out vertical maps look cool, but that makes "normal" gameplay very hard on the player, since he will (at least I do) prefer horizontal gameplay for the most part. A way to approach this would be to define running paths on distinct levels, i.e. low level where the LG is, then some med level and a top level, and use the vertical design more for the look and less for the running paths. And then add a few architecture defined (ledges, holes in floors) etc. to connect the areas (different hight levels, with interesting shortcuts) to up on the gameflow dynamic.

...

Vertical maps look cool and play cool. But there is no point in making 5 meters tall wall when you can make 3 meters tall wall, have this same good vertical layout, faster gameplay and better flow.

[Oeloe]

It feels more like a defrag map than like a FFA map to me. There are some interesting parts in it though, but also large chunks of architecture that don't add anything to the map. The floating platforms and movers aren't that annoying.