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Topic Starter Topic: Re: Boston bomber got the death penalty.
Scarface
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PostPosted: 05-17-2015 10:01 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Life in prison so society can continue to pay for this man to stay alive who was responsible for death and destruction or society pays a one time fee to end this mans time on our planet.

Edit: Maybe not a one time fee, but at least not a life time fee
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YourGrandpa
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PostPosted: 05-17-2015 10:48 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


seremtan wrote:
morally speaking it isn't, but you made an argument based on the cost of incarceration, and cost is something that can be measured and therefore compared

it's as if you haven't got the balls to just say "murderers deserve to die", and make a moral case for that position (one that doesn't involve a tedious and irrelevant "how would you feel?" rhetorical gesture)


You are aware that you're posting in the Boston Bomber thread, aren't you? The cost was referenced as it relates to this or similar situations. Where it's more than clear that the individual/s are guilty of heinous crimes against humanity. Furthermore, I don't think every murderer should be executed. But in cases like this the death penalty is warranted and should remain an option for punishment. My "what if" scenario was also completely relevant as it relates to one's personal involvement. People who think the death penalty should be abolished seem to be emotionally disconnected and refuse to acknowledge the pain/trauma of the people affected. They what to take the moral high ground and somehow pretend that these animals have a worth or social value. When in reality these cold blooded killers have no respect for human life and never will.

Now get out your broad brush and paint up some more fictitious anecdotes. But whatever you do, don't address the what if.
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losCHUNK
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PostPosted: 05-17-2015 11:22 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


In the US, executed prisoners are considered to be homicide victims because that is what happened to them, they were deliberately killed. The death penalty doesn't deter murderers and terrorists, it doesn't prevent these crimes from happening and it doesn't teach the perpetrators a lesson, all it does is cause another death, and that's often after years of appeals and legal arguments. The parents of the child murdered in the bombing didn't want Tsarnaev to have the death penalty because they wanted the emotional closure that they would have got if he had been sentenced to life without parole. What happened that day in 2013 was horrific, it was an evil crime that caused three deaths and 260 injuries, but will adding one more death to the toll do anything? I doubt it.

This is without approaching the debate that if you support the families wishes to kill the perpetrator then you're supporting revenge - which has no place in law other than the death penalty.



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mrd
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PostPosted: 05-17-2015 12:38 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


syp0s wrote:
saturn wrote:
Capital punishment is an ignominious act of prehistoric eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth sentiments that don't belong in modern societies.

It doesn't work as a warning, it doesn't quench your thirst for retaliation, and it's a total shame if the convicted was innocent. Especially since our legal systems are prone to flaws.


More than that though, the fact that a government can have a legal right to kill its citizens is a terrifying thing. I reject the death penalty on those grounds alone.


I think in the US' case, the only thing the death penalty is about anymore is the maintenance of (or at least the perception of the maintenance of) government power. US stands alone among Western cultures as a country which practices capital punishment. We all know it serves no purpose to deter those who would commit the acts for which it is apparently there to deter. The US is drunk on visions of Empire, the death penalty is merely a facet of that.
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YourGrandpa
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PostPosted: 05-17-2015 08:41 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


So you're saying you know for a fact that capital punishments hasn't deterred one murder? Or are you saying it doesn't deter every murder? Because I can assure there isn't a law or punishment that is going to deter every crime.
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scared?
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PostPosted: 05-17-2015 08:51 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Capital punishment is retarded cuz it's way better to be executed than serve life in prison.... Unless ur a moron...
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YourGrandpa
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PostPosted: 05-17-2015 09:20 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Capital Punishment serves a specific purpose. It's rids society of people who can't coexist. Only a moron doesn't recognize the necessity.
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Ryoki
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PostPosted: 05-17-2015 11:54 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I have to laugh at the economic pro death penalty argument every time; it might be counterintuitive, but the death penalty actually costs the taxpayers a lot more than life incarceration. Something to do with the endless appeal process or whatever - you can google that shit, it's well known.

Seems rather a bit desperate when folks feel they have to justify the death penalty from that perspective in any case, it's usually an argument that's used when they realize that morally they've lost the discussion. Lols.



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seremtan
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PostPosted: 05-18-2015 03:37 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


don't waste your time Ryoki. this thread will go nowhere, like every other thread on this subject
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Ryoki
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PostPosted: 05-18-2015 04:07 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Heh, wasn't going to really - was mostly looking for something to type whilst avoiding the workload that's built up in the last few days (that'll teach me to take a day off).

It's the same with discussion about guns, religion or the actual shape of gramps' head. We've had quite enough of those and never has someone even remotely convinced someone else.



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MKJ
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PostPosted: 05-18-2015 05:09 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


we got nightshade to leave though.
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Ryoki
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PostPosted: 05-18-2015 05:24 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Was that over a gun discussion? I figured he just got bored of finding new ways to tell us we're all cunts.



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Scarface
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PostPosted: 05-18-2015 05:36 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ryoki wrote:
I have to laugh at the economic pro death penalty argument every time; it might be counterintuitive, but the death penalty actually costs the taxpayers a lot more than life incarceration. Something to do with the endless appeal process or whatever - you can google that shit, it's well known.

Seems rather a bit desperate when folks feel they have to justify the death penalty from that perspective in any case, it's usually an argument that's used when they realize that morally they've lost the discussion. Lols.


"Cases without the death penalty cost $740,000, while cases where the death penalty is sought cost $1.26 million. Maintaining each death row prisoner costs taxpayers $90,000 more per year than a prisoner in general population. There are 714 inmates on California's death row."

Interesting, I was misinformed. I had always assumed the death penalty was cheaper, with no real knowledge on the matter as I'm in Canada and haven't really cared to research it.

I am in all honesty on the fence about the matter. It doesn't make sense to me to just gather all the degenerates in one place and feed them until they die. The "eye for an eye" ideology of capitol punishment serves no purpose other then to remove them permanently. Maybe we could put them in cells with sex crazed razorback gorillas who will plow them over and over again?
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seremtan
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PostPosted: 05-18-2015 07:55 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ryoki wrote:
Was that over a gun discussion? I figured he just got bored of finding new ways to tell us we're all cunts.


yeah his marine corps training really let him down there
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shaft
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PostPosted: 05-18-2015 11:17 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


scared? wrote:
Capital punishment is retarded cuz it's way better to be executed than serve life in prison.... Unless ur a moron...



"The Supermax is life after death," said Hood, who served as ADX warden from 2002 to 2005. "It's long term. ... In my opinion, it's far much worse than death."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/13/us/dzhokh ... ax-prison/
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HM-PuFFNSTuFF
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PostPosted: 05-18-2015 11:59 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


YourGrandpa wrote:
seremtan wrote:
so you've never heard of life imprisonment, which counts as a 'viable alternative' in the civilised parts of the world?


Yeah, I'm for life in prison too. But I don't think I or anyone should be forced to pay for it. I mean I'm all for those who want to keep this terrorist alive to build a jail cell on their own property, hire armed guards to watch him 24/7, pay for his maintenance, food, electric, plumbing, medical, etc. for the rest of his life. Otherwise, end him and his burden on society.

However, I find it hard to believe that anyone would offer this guy life in prison if ran up and stabbed your family member in the face right in front of you.

IJS.


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lars63
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PostPosted: 05-18-2015 12:50 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I think its true that life imprisonment is probably worse than death, that said, Like Scarface I didn't realize how much more the death penalty costs. Maybe we all should do something like in the movie "Escape From New York", find someplace remote, dump them and let them all fend for themselves. Blow them out of the water if they try to escape. That isn't going to happen either, still a shame to spend all that money on them alive or dead



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Κracus
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PostPosted: 05-19-2015 03:42 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Life in prison at least lets him reflect on what he did and the grief he caused. It also lets society show him why he's wrong.

Killing him solves nothing, it'll just perpetuate the cycle of violence and I'm sure some lunatic will see this as justification for further attacks on innocent people.

If we as a society can't let a disgusting human being like him live in captivity then we're not much better than he is. Besides, how many people are dead as a direct result of Obama?
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feedback
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PostPosted: 05-20-2015 01:44 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


If the death penalty was worse than life in prison, 99% of criminals wouldn't desperately try anything they could do to get out of it.



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seremtan
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PostPosted: 05-20-2015 03:24 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


as a rule, criminals try to get out of any punishment of any kind for their crimes. people who don't try to duck the costs of their actions tend to be the law-abiding ones
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MKJ
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PostPosted: 05-20-2015 03:40 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


isn't serving your sentence abiding the law though?
/philosoraptor
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xer0s
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PostPosted: 05-20-2015 04:37 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


seremtan wrote:
as a rule, criminals try to get out of any punishment of any kind for their crimes. people who don't try to duck the costs of their actions tend to be the law-abiding ones


feedback has a good point though. How many guys serving a life sentence are begging for the death penalty?
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Κracus
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PostPosted: 05-20-2015 04:49 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


There's people in both camps either way. If I was going to spend the next 80 years in jail I might rather be killed too, fuck that.

But it isn't their choice. So what if people on death row want to live? That's not the point. The point is not stooping to their level because that doesn't solve the problem. Who knows, perhaps there might be medical/clinical uses for these people on death row. We might learn from them to avoid similar issues in the future. Yeah it costs us money to keep them alive but if you're really about changing society then that's part of the cost. Those are the prices we pay as free people to evolve society past this petty revenge mind frame that we all cling to when someone has horribly wronged us.
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Pext
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PostPosted: 05-20-2015 05:29 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Quake 3 World

Your college level discussion is waiting...
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Κracus
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PostPosted: 05-20-2015 05:40 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Get the fuck outta here with your pretentious college level bullshit. Like you're any different posting on an online gaming forum, if you expect something else you're in the wrong neighborhood motherfucker.
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Pext
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PostPosted: 05-20-2015 05:52 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Seems like I hit a nerve.
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xer0s
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PostPosted: 05-20-2015 05:56 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


You're in the wrong neighborhood mother fucker...
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Pext
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PostPosted: 05-20-2015 06:16 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


:olo: That Kracus guy allways cracks me up.
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seremtan
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PostPosted: 05-20-2015 08:44 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


xer0s wrote:
feedback has a good point though. How many guys serving a life sentence are begging for the death penalty?


you tell me

a rhetorical question isn't an argument
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xer0s
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PostPosted: 05-20-2015 08:46 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I don't have those statistics. It was a serious question. How many?
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shaft
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PostPosted: 05-20-2015 09:33 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


What's the suicide rate in supermax?
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seremtan
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PostPosted: 05-20-2015 10:06 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


xer0s wrote:
I don't have those statistics. It was a serious question. How many?


then fucking google it you lazy cunt. you're the one making the argument
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xer0s
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PostPosted: 05-20-2015 10:17 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm not arguing...
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lars63
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PostPosted: 05-21-2015 12:47 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'll bet its pretty hard to suicide in Super max



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seremtan
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PostPosted: 05-21-2015 10:40 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


MKJ wrote:
isn't serving your sentence abiding the law though?
/philosoraptor


no
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