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Topic Starter Topic: Is America Dying?
HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 01-19-2022 03:18 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Not a troll thread.

What's going to happen? :dts:
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Captain
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PostPosted: 01-19-2022 04:13 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It's a rough time to be a blockheaded blubberboy in floriduh
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Dark Metal
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PostPosted: 01-19-2022 05:10 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


America is eating itself like a lesbian with a 4 foot tongue.



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xer0s
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PostPosted: 01-19-2022 08:07 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Dark Metal wrote:
America is eating itself like a lesbian with a 4 foot tongue.


Are you talking about something specific or just in general?

I’m not sure we’re any worse off than we were when Trump was prez just a few years ago…
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Transient
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PostPosted: 01-20-2022 12:08 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Bin Laden won.
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 01-20-2022 12:14 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I think Bin Laden was little more than a catalyst to expose what was already there.
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PostPosted: 01-20-2022 12:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


More like an accelerant.
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 01-20-2022 02:23 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yeah that's probably a more accurate term.
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raw
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PostPosted: 01-20-2022 05:26 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
Not a troll thread.

What's going to happen? :dts:


Yes. Our democracy is dying and is on its last leg due to corruption.

Voting Rights since the 2020 election, Republican-controlled states have passed voter suppression legislation almost sweepingly while using the big lie to justify it. Florida claimed it had the most-secure election ever and was cited as the model of how mail-in ballots should work. However, despite these boasts, the Republicans who control Florida have passed and actively fought to suppress the vote of anything Democrat.

Florida votes to allow convicted felons to vote
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/convict ... d=73822173

DeSantis fought this in the Republican-controlled courts and this was the result.
https://apnews.com/article/florida-voti ... c74ae93de3

Florida Enacts Sweeping Voter Suppression Law
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/ ... ession-law

DeSantis broke Florida Senate tradition and submitted his own districting map with the subtle threat that this would be the only map he would accept from the Senate as he will veto anything else. The new map breaks up minority districts to provide more Republican officials.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politi ... 82259.html

Once submitted, DeSantis will be sued by Marc Elias.
https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1 ... 63846?s=20

Apparently, also in 2020 there were ghost candidates with similar names to Democratic candidates which was a ploy to siphon off legitimate votes for Democrats to give Republican candidates an advantage. It worked and the Republican candidates won by narrow margins.

Apparently, this was funded by the power monopoly in Florida FPL who used dark money groups to fund the operation to subvert democracy. You literally cannot get power anywhere else.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politic ... story.html

Also, Publix the largest and most-predominate grocery store chain in Florida (if you live here you know how dependent you are upon this chain for certain products) has also paid money into the big lie and also supported the insurrection and the attempt to subvert democracy.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/florida/2 ... ump-rally/

Florida also has the most arrests for folks involved in the January 6th insurrection.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/new ... 055949002/


This is JUST my state. I could provide examples of this ALL DAY for other states as well. If we do not get the big voting rights bill passed, we will see the collapse of the American democracy by 2024. The 2022 midterm elections will be the breaking point if Democrats lose and do not gain seats in the Congress (house/senate).

Edit #1
To answer the question, we aren't dying, our democracy is and we are sliding into authoritarianism. There's a very narrow chance we can save the democracy but it all lies on the Democrats pulling together to get the votes needed to pass voting rights legislation which is looking grim thanks to Joe Manchin (WV) and Kirsten Sinema (AZ). They are bought and paid for by big interest groups so while I have faith, it doesn't look great to me.

Edit #2
It's easy to blame the Democrats for everything right now but it's of note that NOT A SINGLE REPUBLICAN supports any voting rights legislation not even the moderates or the ones that supported the same voting rights decades ago. This effort by a single party to destroy American democracy for their own power grab is quite disgusting. I think it's quite obvious to anyone who has paid attention.
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seremtan
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PostPosted: 01-20-2022 01:34 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


can someone give me a quick explanation of this whole voting rights kerfuffle? can't everyone just vote right now? what's the story?
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raw
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PostPosted: 01-20-2022 02:10 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


seremtan wrote:
can someone give me a quick explanation of this whole voting rights kerfuffle? can't everyone just vote right now? what's the story?


Not sure if it's quick to explain. However, voting isn't a right given at birth or citizenship and there are a lot of games being played to prevent folks from voting like long lines, criminalizing giving folks food/drink while in long lines, voter-id (sort of a poll tax), gerrymandered maps, ...etc.
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Transient
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PostPosted: 01-20-2022 02:54 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


They used to make black people guess how many jellybeans were in a jar, and if they got it wrong, they couldn't vote. We aren't very far off from that.
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HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 01-20-2022 05:28 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The extreme measures that Republicans are seeking to put in place to curtail voting by minorities aside, there is a narrative that has been widely adopted by Republicans (75%?) who believe voter fraud was the reason Trump lost. This despite court rulings and no actual meaningful evidence produced. Both equally frightening, but it is the whipping up of tensions over the latter belief that I believe can cause violence.
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raw
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PostPosted: 01-20-2022 05:48 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It already caused violence on January 6th and GQP people I know down here are ramping up for a civil war since like 2017. Full MAGA boners over it.

Look at this!
https://www.wsj.com/articles/oath-keepe ... 1642693058
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HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 01-20-2022 06:18 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


And Trump co-opted so many politicians to back his plan to overrule the election results. It's really interesting that it didn't work in the end.
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HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 01-20-2022 06:21 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


And can we agree that one main aspect of the divide is white supremacy? Not to mention the existential threat to Repubs due to changing American demographics. Which is an ironic duo.
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raw
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PostPosted: 01-21-2022 03:36 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


White fragility is real and white supremacism is the biggest threat to the US currently.
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seremtan
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PostPosted: 01-21-2022 08:13 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


is it though?

as opposed to, say, an entrenched plutocratic class buying the laws they need to hold on to their position? (and don't say "but most of that plutocratic class are white" - would it improve anything if the exact same racial profile as the country as whole?)
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raw
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PostPosted: 01-21-2022 10:02 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I agree that the class war is the issue and is disguised as culture wars to keep us fighting with each other while they enrich themselves and chip away at our rights.

It’s been a downward spiral for democracy since Citizens United.
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Captain
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PostPosted: 01-21-2022 10:13 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


raw wrote:
It’s been a downward spiral for democracy since the Constitution.


Fixed :p
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raw
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PostPosted: 01-21-2022 12:13 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


:olo: I was actually waiting on that.
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seremtan
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PostPosted: 01-21-2022 03:19 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


looking forward to this fascism everyone's so hyped about

finally the fucking trains will run on time :!: :|
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HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft
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PostPosted: 01-21-2022 05:45 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


seremtan wrote:
is it though?

as opposed to, say, an entrenched plutocratic class buying the laws they need to hold on to their position? (and don't say "but most of that plutocratic class are white" - would it improve anything if the exact same racial profile as the country as whole?)

The plutocrats in America are pretty much equally served by both parties at this point. Their role shouldn't be diminished mind you. They are pulling strings and winning hearts and minds (manipulating fearful, deprived humans).
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 01-22-2022 12:06 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eh ... Plutocrats? What's that? Not Disney related I guess
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raw
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PostPosted: 01-22-2022 04:31 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Control by the wealthy
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TLMUFDVR
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PostPosted: 01-23-2022 06:40 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


raw wrote:
seremtan wrote:
can someone give me a quick explanation of this whole voting rights kerfuffle? can't everyone just vote right now? what's the story?


Not sure if it's quick to explain. However, voting isn't a right given at birth or citizenship and there are a lot of games being played to prevent folks from voting like long lines, criminalizing giving folks food/drink while in long lines, voter-id (sort of a poll tax), gerrymandered maps, ...etc.


As citizen of the U.S. you have the exclusive right to vote:
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/
Fourteenth Amendment
Section 2
"...and citizens of the United States,..."

We just need one valid ID for each vote of US citizen 18 years of age or older, born or naturalized in the U.S., who has residency(50 day min.) of the single state voting from who is alive and on own free will wanting to vote(BOTH in person or absentee).

Image
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raw
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PostPosted: 01-24-2022 05:39 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That's a broad stroke that doesn't even begin to cover the issue. Example: A state ID costs money, money that some people do not have. Typically, a utility bill or other form of identification (without a cost) is used to prevent an unintended (and illegal) poll tax.

My point is that while we have the "right", the fact that we have to enroll into something that should be automatically enrolled. The system is used to suppress votes.
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seremtan
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PostPosted: 01-24-2022 09:02 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


TLMUFDVR wrote:
Image


"register to vote" =/= "vote". some of those countries only require id to register; others will require it to both register *and* vote. as i understand it, the move in the US is to demand id for both registering *and* voting on the door. the latter requirement is unnecessary and almost certainly bullshit designed to deprive some people of the vote

for instance, in the UK, you generally get on the electoral roll by paying council tax at an address, though you can register separately if you don't pay CT (i.e. you're a student). once you're registered, that's it, you're done. when an election comes along you get a card to take to the polling station (though it isn't mandatory to present the card)

what you don't get is id'd at the door, or have to provide further proof once you're registered at an address
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Captain
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PostPosted: 01-24-2022 11:08 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


In Canada we're required to present the voting card you get in the mail and separate government-issued ID, but we're also a country with a broken election system.
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Dark Metal
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PostPosted: 01-24-2022 11:49 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Captain wrote:
In Canada we're required to present the voting card you get in the mail and separate government-issued ID, but we're also a country with a broken election system.


That’s somewhat misleading. You’re not required to present the voting card. You do need two pieces of ID however the list is long and many aren’t “government issued”. A credit card and utility bill is enough.

https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?s ... dex&lang=e



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Captain
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PostPosted: 01-24-2022 12:16 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


You're right, my bad. I assumed the voting card was mandatory because it says to bring it with you and they always ask for it :paranoid:
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duffman91
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PostPosted: 01-24-2022 01:17 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Without getting too political about it, I think that the electoral college and voting districts are mostly to blame. I would condone an age limit for certain posts. In the 90's, the system felt relevant. After the last two elections, I can't say that I feel the same.
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TLMUFDVR
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PostPosted: 01-24-2022 07:08 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


raw wrote:
That's a broad stroke that doesn't even begin to cover the issue. Example: A state ID costs money, money that some people do not have. Typically, a utility bill or other form of identification (without a cost) is used to prevent an unintended (and illegal) poll tax.

My point is that while we have the "right", the fact that we have to enroll into something that should be automatically enrolled. The system is used to suppress votes.


As a citizen your automatically approved, just need to prove citizenship for tracking. A bill statement is not a secure document to prove citizenship. For example a DMV non-driver ID card from NY, the fees seem trivial(https://dmv.ny.gov/id-card/fees-refunds):
Fees for Standard Non-Driver ID Cards
STANDARD NON-DRIVER ID CARD------------------------------------VALID----FEE
Under age 62, your next birthday is within the next 6 months----4 years-----$9.50
Under age 62, your next birthday is more than 6 months away---8 yearS----$14.00
Under age 62 and receive SSI---------------------------------------10 years----$6.50
Age 62 or older-------------------------------------------------------10 years----$6.50
Age 62 or older and receive SSI-------------------------------------10 years----No Fee
Any age and receive temporary assistance---------------------------4 years----No Fee

Birth certificate or naturalization document are others, so where is this massive suppression? The court does not identify this as a substantial burden either: "The Court added that, although obtaining a government-issued photo identification is an inconvenience to voters, it surely does not qualify as a substantial burden." ***
*** Crawford v. Marion County Election Board, 128 S. Ct. 1610, 1621 (2008) (plurality). See Fourteenth Amendment, Voting and Ballot Access, infra.

I would vote to pass law to waive the fee for any citizen making less then 50K for example to end this debate and "get er done" so to speak.
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 01-25-2022 12:05 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Maybe I'm naive, but having a valid ID when going voting is a requirement here in The Netherlands as well. It doesn't seem like an outlandish requirement to me. It's used to make sure people don't vote in someone else's name or vote twice. I feel like calling ID a method to suppress voters is an overreaction to all the other voter suppression going on in the US.
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seremtan
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PostPosted: 01-25-2022 02:09 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


in the UK we just present the card we get through the mail and they tick it off their (paper) list. then again, voter fraud in the UK is effectively zero, so there's no need for a solution to a non-existent problem :!:
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