Quake3World.com Forums
     General Discussion
        good news! bush delivered...nawlins is fixed...
Post new topicReply to topic
Login | Profile | | FAQ | Search | IRC




Previous topic | Next topic 
Topic Starter Topic: 
HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft
Canadian Shaft
Joined: 01 Mar 2001
Posts: 19998
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 09:19 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
Okay so you're in charge of hiring a new employee for your company. You receive several resumes in the mail. One resume is froma person named Shaniqua.

Do you,

a) Carry on reading the resume?

b) immediately start mentally raging on about how black people shouldn't name their children such preposterous names?
Top
                 
Massive Quasars
.
.
Joined: 15 Dec 2000
Posts: 10168
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 09:23 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I think nawlins should be left to fend for itself, no federal flood insurance (horrible idea from the start), no federal funds. Suspend the more burdensome economic regulations, permit "price gouging", no minimum wage, etc. (don't have a ready list with me).

I hear alot about bringing back the culture as it was, if they can manage to restore the city to it's prior state without taking money from others to do so, more power to them. Atm though, I see a $110 billion hole courtesy of all taxpaying citizens (and taxpaying illegals).
Top
                 
Massive Quasars
.
.
Joined: 15 Dec 2000
Posts: 10168
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 09:33 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Grudge wrote:
IF YOU'RE NOT WITH US YOU'RE AGAINST US


you know the rules in a geoff thread, take a position and attack the character of your critics if they challenge it



_________________
ImageImageImageImage
Top
                 
Nightshade
Tap, Nap, or Snap
Tap, Nap, or Snap
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 27667
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 10:20 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
True or false?

"Blacks face significant discrimination in America."


True.

True or False?

"We live in a society where racism towards white people is perfectly acceptable."
Top
                 
Massive Quasars
.
.
Joined: 15 Dec 2000
Posts: 10168
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 10:37 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


riddla wrote:
one thing mentioned in the documentary which some people are ignorant to watch is how 100% of the oil profits offshore of Louisiana are siphoned federally and never get back to the state :!:


I don't know the situation there, but I wouldn't be surprised if Louisiana was getting the shaft.
Top
                 
seremtan
Etile
Etile
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 34898
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 10:40 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Massive Quasars wrote:
seremtan wrote:
:switzerland:


can't be neutral in this discussion, son


like stephen colbert, i don't see colour

also: i'm not your son, kiddo
Top
                 
HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft
Canadian Shaft
Joined: 01 Mar 2001
Posts: 19998
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 10:51 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Nightshade wrote:
HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
True or false?

"Blacks face significant discrimination in America."


True.

True or False?

"We live in a society where racism towards white people is perfectly acceptable."


False.
Top
                 
Nightshade
Tap, Nap, or Snap
Tap, Nap, or Snap
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 27667
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 11:00 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Wrong. It's 100% correct. I have to go to class atm, but I'll cite some examples later.

Quick example: Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle.
Top
                 
R00k
straight at you
straight at you
Joined: 18 Dec 2000
Posts: 27931
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 03:11 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
Nightshade wrote:
True or False?

"We live in a society where racism towards white people is perfectly acceptable."


False.


Awfully quick answer there...

It's educational to make a list of racial slurs for black people and for white people. Then to watch television and keep a running tally of how many are used in each column.

It really takes no time for a pattern to emerge.

So is it not racism for blacks to use racial slurs against whites?

Because not only does it happen, it is permitted on broadcast television, where four-letter words are not.
Top
                 
HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft
Canadian Shaft
Joined: 01 Mar 2001
Posts: 19998
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 03:25 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


that's your whole case or is there more?
Top
                 
R00k
straight at you
straight at you
Joined: 18 Dec 2000
Posts: 27931
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 03:32 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


If white people were allowed to use racial slurs on public airwaves, would you not say that was evidence of how accepted racism is in our society?
Top
                 
Freakaloin
Elite
Elite
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 10443
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 03:34 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


white ppl r allowed...rush limbaugh did it last week...



_________________
a defining attribute of a government is that it has a monopoly on the legitimate exercise of violence...
Top
                 
HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft
Canadian Shaft
Joined: 01 Mar 2001
Posts: 19998
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 03:36 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


well can you give me an example of the racial slurs that are commonly used on tv by blacks to refer to white people?
Top
                 
HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft
Canadian Shaft
Joined: 01 Mar 2001
Posts: 19998
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 03:38 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


and are there any other forms of racism against whites in America?
Top
                 
R00k
straight at you
straight at you
Joined: 18 Dec 2000
Posts: 27931
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 03:39 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Freakaloin wrote:
white ppl r allowed...rush limbaugh did it last week...


And there was an uproar about it, as there should be.

But I hear no uproar about the fact that I hear honky, cracker, can't dance, talks funny, etc, repeatedly every day on the television.

It doesn't matter that I really can't dance or that I talk funny -- if it is wrong for white people to voice their perceived generalizations about the black race, then why is it perfectly okay for black people to do it?
Top
                 
Freakaloin
Elite
Elite
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 10443
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 03:40 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


its more like an inferiority complex...



_________________
a defining attribute of a government is that it has a monopoly on the legitimate exercise of violence...
Top
                 
Freakaloin
Elite
Elite
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 10443
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 03:41 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


racism is fine as long as the weak ones are doing it...don't u get it man?...



_________________
a defining attribute of a government is that it has a monopoly on the legitimate exercise of violence...
Top
                 
HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft
Canadian Shaft
Joined: 01 Mar 2001
Posts: 19998
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 03:45 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


so whites get to be indignant about being told they can't dance whereas blacks get to be indignant about not getting a loan from a bank although they are as qualified as the white man who got the loan.

which is the serious problem here?
Top
                 
Nightshade
Tap, Nap, or Snap
Tap, Nap, or Snap
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 27667
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 04:02 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Look at the movie example I mentioned. In it, almost all the minorities have positive stereotypes associated with them: The Indian guy's a genius medical student from a family of doctors, the asian guy is smart and ridiculously hardworking, the black buy has a huge dick (according to him), whereas all the white people are stupid, lazy, and oppressive. And no one says jack shit about it.
There was a Kudzu strip (stupid newspaper comic in the US) a couple years ago in which there was an exchange between a white man and a black man. It was something to do with a whites-only Olympics, about which the black man made jokes about liberal guilt, dancing, being uptight, stereotypical shit and referring to it as the "Whiteboy Olympics". That's not too offensive, granted, but what would have happened were the case reversed? What if only mention of the "Blackboy Olympics" was made? What if the strip made mention of events like the "100 meter TV steal" or the "4x400 welfare check cash"?
Does anyone get pissed when they hear the phrase "whiteboy"? Guess what? It's racist.
What would happen if I were to hold a parade celebrating my Caucasian, European heritage? I'd get fucking lynched, that's what.
Listen to any number of comedians, watch any number of sitcoms, white men are made out to be oppressive, bumbling idiots. We're so conditioned to accept it that hardly anyone even notices it.
Do I think that racism is a problem in the US? HELL YES. You'd have to be a retard to think otherwise. I just think that it's not solely what everyone makes it out to be.

FFS, try being the only white person walking down A1-A on beachside in Daytona during Black Spring Break. Then tell me how you feel about racism in the US. Where you don't even friggin' live, I might add.
Top
                 
HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft
Canadian Shaft
Joined: 01 Mar 2001
Posts: 19998
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 04:03 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


here's a black man' more eloquent perspective...

In bigot versus bigot, white racist is winner

Published Thursday, January 10, 2002

In bigot versus bigot, white racist is winner
''Black people cannot be racist.''

It's been maybe 20 years since the first time I heard some member of the black intelligentsia say that on an afternoon talk show. Naturally, all hell broke loose.

Years later, all hell still awaits repair.

I base that assessment on the response to something I did in a recent column. Namely, I defined racism as ''this practice of demeaning and denying based on the darkness of skin.''

Man, what'd I want to go and say that for? The flood of letters has been unrelenting, dozens of aggrieved Caucasians wanting your poor, benighted correspondent to know that racism, thank you very much, is also felt by those whose skin is not dark at all. Several folks figured I must be one'a them black folk who considers black folk incapable of racism. One individual went so far as to contend that yours truly, like most blacks, hasn't a clue what racism really is.

Well, golly, where to begin?

First, my take on the ''blacks can't be racist'' argument: Unassailable logic, unfortunate rhetoric.

People who make that argument reason as follows: Yes, blacks can be prejudiced or bigoted, but not ''racist'' because racism involves systemic oppression -- the wielding of power. As blacks neither wield power nor control the system, the reasoning goes, it's beyond their ability to be racist.

I get impatient with people who make the argument in those terms, terms that seem, frankly, calibrated to produce more confrontation than insight. Most people who hear the point framed in that way are, understandably, unable to get past those first inflammatory words: ''Blacks can't be racist.''

So let's frame it another way. Let's allow that black folks can, indeed, be racist. Or prejudiced, intolerant, biased, bigoted or any other word that floats your boat. Black people are, after all, members of the human race and, as such, are heir to all the idiocy by which human beings are beset.

But with that established, let's also say this: It's an affront to common sense to suggest there is equivalence between black-on-white bigotry and its opposite. This is the point the black intelligentsia's rhetoric has obscured and people like my correspondents have denied, avoided and ignored. As an aggregate, bigoted blacks have much less power to injure whites than vice versa. They also have less history of doing so. These are incontrovertible facts that render hollow the yowling demands that the racism of blacks be accorded a place in the national consciousness commensurate with that of white people.

Hey, when you find a black bigot, feel free to censure and ostracize him or her as the circumstance warrants. I don't care. Just don't pretend the transgression is what it is not. Don't claim it represents a significant threat to the quality of life of white Americans at large.

Because if it represents such a threat, then where are the statistics demonstrating how black bias against whites translates to the mass denial of housing, bank loans, education, employment opportunities, voting rights, medical care or justice? And please, spare me the anecdote about Jane, who couldn't get into school or Joe, who lost his job, because of affirmative action.

Not the same. Not even close. There are, in fact, reams of statistics documenting that racism has fostered generation after generation of Joes and Janes -- not to mention Jamillas, Rasheeds and Keshias -- in the African-American community. And those numbers come not from the NAACP, the Nation of Islam, the Congressional Black Caucus or any other group with an ax to grind but, rather, from the federal government and from university think tanks. Yet even with those bona fides, some people find evidence of white racism's power dishearteningly easy to ignore.

They have to, I suppose. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to continue pretending an equivalency that does not exist. And somewhere inside, even they must recognize that fact.

Put it like this: If given the option of going through life as a white man suffering the effects of black racism or the reverse, I know which one I'd choose.

I bet every one of my correspondents does, too.

Leonard Pitts Jr.'s column runs in Living & Arts every Thursday and Saturday. Call him toll-free at 888-251-4407.

leonardpitts@mindspring.com

© 2002 The Miami Herald and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved.
http://www.miami.com/herald
Top
                 
R00k
straight at you
straight at you
Joined: 18 Dec 2000
Posts: 27931
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 04:05 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
well can you give me an example of the racial slurs that are commonly used on tv by blacks to refer to white people?

See above post.

HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
and are there any other forms of racism against whites in America?


I'm not trying to get into a discussion about who is racist in more ways. I'm simply pointing out the fact that inequalities and double-standards exist on both sides - and they both have to be recognized for things to ever change.

Have you ever had to struggle with a heavy and imbalanced workload because your co-worker is unqualified - but your boss hired him and is keeping him on, because it allows your boss to get a bonus?

I know this seems like small potatoes - but for every situation I just described racism is perpetuated that much more, because that disgruntled co-worker will be prejudiced for the rest of his life toward any minority he sees working somewhere.

And what about people who get beat out of jobs entirely, due to EEO goals? Those people will feel like they are at a disadvantage every time they apply for a job, and they will also be prejudiced.

Racism is perpetuated in much the same way terrorism is -- it's about understanding and empathy, not forcing people to stop feeling how they feel. My grandparents are and were VERY racist. But I have seen and experienced enough in my life and met enough people to make up my own mind, just like everyone should.

Racism will never be gone completely, but today intelligent and well-rounded people with life experiences to draw from look at blind racists with pity. What we can strive for is for those people to eventually be the majority - the educated, who have been given an opportunity to broaden their worldview.
Unfortunately, our country seems to be headed in a different direction from that lately, and we will all reap the effects of that during our lives.

Trying to convince someone that they should see racism where they don't see it (or vice versa) is like telling a thermometer to change readings.
Top
                 
Canidae
Immortal
Immortal
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 2237
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 04:06 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


You got to love Good Times and The Jeffersons. They made racism against white people funny mainstream entertainment and helped assuage the guilt that blacks feel expressing their racist feelings towards whites among themselves.

BTW, bankers only love one colour: Green.
They don't care what colour the people are that make it for them.



_________________
Image Image
Top
                 
R00k
straight at you
straight at you
Joined: 18 Dec 2000
Posts: 27931
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 04:10 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
so whites get to be indignant about being told they can't dance whereas blacks get to be indignant about not getting a loan from a bank although they are as qualified as the white man who got the loan.

which is the serious problem here?


Oh, so it's not a double-standard, it's just me being indignant?

FYI, I'm not offended by these remarks. I am just pointing out an obvious double standard that you are apparently apologizing for by adding conditional scenarios.

Yes, it is wrong for someone to be turned down for a loan, employment, or anything else because of their color.

See, I said it!!!

What did you think I was going to say - that if black people can make fun of the way I dance on TV, then they shouldn't be able to get loans? :icon27:
Top
                 
HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft
Canadian Shaft
Joined: 01 Mar 2001
Posts: 19998
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 04:10 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Canidae wrote:
You got to love Good Times and The Jeffersons. They made racism against white people funny mainstream entertainment and helped assuage the guilt that blacks feel expressing their racist feelings towards whites among themselves.

BTW, bankers only love one colour: Green.
They don't care what colour the people are that make it for them.


how are you so consistantly wrong?

http://www.dispatch.com/news/special/homeloan/

Key findings

An investigation by The Dispatch into mortgage disparities across Ohio found that:

# Black applicants are nearly twice as likely as whites to be denied mortgages in Franklin County.

# Blacks with incomes above $60,000 are nearly three times as likely as high-income whites to face rejection.

# Across Ohio, Cuyahoga County has the largest racial gap in home loans. The narrowest divide is in Butler County in southwest Ohio.

# Among major lenders in Franklin County, M/I Financial Corp. has the widest racial gap in mortgages — denying more than six black applicants for each white in 1999. The best record belongs to The Huntington Mortgage Co., which shows no difference racially in rejection rates.

# Black homeowners who try to refinance their mortgages are twice as likely as whites to be turned down.




Last edited by HM-PuFFNSTuFF on 08-30-2006 04:15 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Top
                 
Nightshade
Tap, Nap, or Snap
Tap, Nap, or Snap
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 27667
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 04:13 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
stuff


This kind of divisive argument over what amounts to a point of semantics does absolutely nothing to further the debate as a whole. Racism is racism. It's not predicated on the ability of one group to damage another, rather on skin color alone. To say otherwise is a REAL affront to common sense.
Top
                 
Nightshade
Tap, Nap, or Snap
Tap, Nap, or Snap
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 27667
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 04:17 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
Canidae wrote:
You got to love Good Times and The Jeffersons. They made racism against white people funny mainstream entertainment and helped assuage the guilt that blacks feel expressing their racist feelings towards whites among themselves.

BTW, bankers only love one colour: Green.
They don't care what colour the people are that make it for them.


how are you so consistantly wrong?

http://www.dispatch.com/news/special/homeloan/


See, I take exception to points like this one:
Quote:
Neighborhoods with high numbers of poor or minority residents posted the highest denial rates for mortgage applications from 1995 through 1999.


How often do banks loan money to broke-ass white people? I'm not saying that there isn't a discrepancy in rates of loan denial, I don't have all that information. But, unless you have data right alongside that says that poor white people get loans more often than poor blacks, that claim's somewhat worthless, don't you agree?
Top
                 
HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft
Canadian Shaft
Joined: 01 Mar 2001
Posts: 19998
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 04:21 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Nightshade wrote:
HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
Canidae wrote:
You got to love Good Times and The Jeffersons. They made racism against white people funny mainstream entertainment and helped assuage the guilt that blacks feel expressing their racist feelings towards whites among themselves.

BTW, bankers only love one colour: Green.
They don't care what colour the people are that make it for them.


how are you so consistantly wrong?

http://www.dispatch.com/news/special/homeloan/


See, I take exception to points like this one:
Quote:
Neighborhoods with high numbers of poor or minority residents posted the highest denial rates for mortgage applications from 1995 through 1999.


How often do banks loan money to broke-ass white people? I'm not saying that there isn't a discrepancy in rates of loan denial, I don't have all that information. But, unless you have data right alongside that says that poor white people get loans more often than poor blacks, that claim's somewhat worthless, don't you agree?

Why are you looking only at the weakest claim on that site? What about the other stats I posted above?

i.e. Blacks with incomes above $60,000 are nearly three times as likely as high-income whites to face rejection.
Top
                 
HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft
Canadian Shaft
Joined: 01 Mar 2001
Posts: 19998
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 04:31 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


you asked me if racism in america towards whites is perfectly acceptable. I said it isn't. I still stand by that position. if the sum total racism against blacks in america was a bit of name calling on tv do you think it would be a s huge an issue? I think not.

are there racist blacks? sure.

is racism against blacks in america way way wayworse than it is against whites? sure
Top
                 
Canidae
Immortal
Immortal
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 2237
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 04:31 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Lets get back to George Jefferson...how many fellow blacks did he employ in his business?
I rest my briefcase.

Seriously why don't you compare the default rate on loans given to "blacks" vs "whites" and their household stability and maybe you will be talking the language of bank profit.



_________________
Image Image
Top
                 
HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft
Canadian Shaft
Joined: 01 Mar 2001
Posts: 19998
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 04:33 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


suck it honky

http://www.blackcommentator.com/140/140_wise_3.html

Conservatives criticize studies that find evidence of mortgage bias, based on different outcomes for persons at the same credit rating, by arguing that default analysis shows different outcomes are justified. Specifically, they argue that since black default rates are higher than the rates for whites, at every level of pre-loan creditworthiness, banks are merely engaging in rational decision making when they reject blacks for such loans, aware that the risk of default is higher. But there are multiple flaws with this line of reasoning.

First, this argument ignores that default rates and foreclosure rates are far from the same, and it is only when loans are foreclosed that their default status becomes visible in data. Secondly, lenders control whether or not a late loan (technically in default) is going to be called in or not, and the available evidence suggests lenders are more aggressive in foreclosing on loans paid late by blacks than whites. In part, this is due to the ability to turn the lower-cost homes (with higher than average loan-to-value ratios) more quickly for greater profit once the loan is called in.

Another problem with the default analysis approach is that it assumes that since blacks are higher average credit and default risks, therefore, there is no discrimination when a particular black applicant for a loan gets turned down. But this argument extrapolates from group averages to individuals in a way that is not only illegal (it is unlawful to discriminate against a person because of the average characteristics of that person's racial group), but also irrational. After all, just because blacks as a group have higher default rates, doesn't mean that any given black loan applicant will likely default, and to treat them as if they would is to treat them on the basis of a statistical average over which they have no control, and which is likely to be wrong far more often than right (since most blacks will not default on their loans).

Finally, when loan default rates are not massively different between whites and blacks (and they aren't), lenders should care more about the average loss on a default, rather than the average rate of default between one type of borrower and another. As such, it is important to note that the expected monetary loss to a lender from a defaulted black loan is actually less than the average for loans to whites (understandable, since the size of the loan in the latter case is likely higher), so market theory would predict lower rates of foreclosure on black loans if discrimination were not operating.

Furthermore, if risk of default in the abstract is less important than size of the monetary loss in case of default, the entire notion of recalibrating discrimination estimates based on different default rates becomes untenable.

Given the higher average loss on loans to whites, it is whites who should be held to the higher standard: yet, no evidence suggests this happens.

One of the problems with comparing creditworthiness in the first place, so as to "justify" racial disparity in lending, is that research has found lenders are more willing to give information to whites with bad credit on how to clean up their files, and underwriters tend to give whites the benefit of the doubt with spotty credit in a way they don't with borrowers of color.

One infamous example of this process, though hardly anomalous, involved Northern Trust, in Chicago, which settled with the Justice Department over violations of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act. Northern had allowed whites with spotty credit to offer extensive explanations for their credit blemishes, while denying such an opportunity to minority loan seekers.

What's more, Northern had refused to consider bonuses, overtime pay or child support as sources of income when determining a black applicant's creditworthiness, whereas these were taken into consideration for white loan-seekers.

Evidence from around the nation suggests that lenders often seem less interested in giving loan information to black customers than whites, are quick to urge blacks more so than whites to seek loans elsewhere, and are more likely to discourage black loan seekers by telling them how complicated and time-consuming the application process might be. Blacks are also more likely than whites to be told that they won't qualify for the loans they are seeking, even before they have filled out the necessary paperwork needed for a lender to make such a determination.

Interestingly, data from the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act demonstrates that while blacks and whites with excellent credit appear to be treated equally, there is a substantial gap between the way whites and blacks with bad or questionable credit are treated. As the Wall Street Journal reported in 1995, nearly seventy percent of whites with poor credit are able to receive a mortgage, compared to only sixteen percent of blacks with equally poor credit.

Even when folks of color do have worse credit, this fact is hardly independent of racism. Rather, worse credit for blacks (especially the poor) often stems from the practices of the secondary mortgage market. As several studies have shown, banks often reject borrowers of color, even when they have credit records similar to whites with the same incomes. Then, these rejected applicants turn to secondary or "sub-prime" lenders, often owned by the very banks that turned them down (or which are subsidized by them in the form of credit lines), and which specialize in loans to persons who can't otherwise get financing. These sub-prime lenders charge 3-5 times the interest for the loans they offer than the bank would have that originally rejected the supposedly high-risk applicant. By doing so, lenders make exceptionally high profits and place borrowers in great jeopardy by driving up the amount they must repay, thereby increasing the likelihood of default, late payments, or missed payments, all of which would then taint future credit records.

A recent study of Citigroup (which includes Citi, the group's sub-prime lender), found that Citi in North Carolina has been charging higher interest even to borrowers who could have qualified for regular loans. In the process, over 90,000 mostly black borrowers have been roped into predatory loans, and as a result have paid an average of $327 more per month for mortgages than those getting loans from a prime lender. This adds up to over $110,000 in excess payments over the life of the loans, on average. And at the same time that banks are steering blacks with good credit to sub-prime lenders, whites with good credit who apply for loans with sub-prime lenders are routinely referred to prime lenders, who offer loans at lower interest rates.

The collective impact of housing bias is enormous. Most obviously, it deprives families of color of billions of dollars in lost potential wealth and assets. Studies place the cost of present-day discrimination at over $4 billion annually for people of color, and further estimate that today's black communities have been deprived of nearly half-a-trillion dollars in wealth due to past and present housing discrimination in the U.S.

Likewise, housing preferences and subsidies for white families (in the form of Homestead Act benefits, and racially-restrictive FHA and VA loans), alongside "urban renewal," (which resulted in the destruction of about one-fourth of all homes lived in by African Americans in the 50s and 60s to make way for office parks, parking lots and shopping centers), have pushed the racial housing gap in America to chasm levels.

This inequality in housing, compounded by inequality in labor markets, then results in profoundly unequal educational opportunities and access for persons of color, relative to whites: the subject to which we will turn in Part IV of this series.




Last edited by HM-PuFFNSTuFF on 08-30-2006 04:42 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Top
                 
HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft
Canadian Shaft
Joined: 01 Mar 2001
Posts: 19998
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 04:35 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


now we're seeing some real racism in this thread
Top
                 
Canidae
Immortal
Immortal
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 2237
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 04:44 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Minorities by the very way they live their lives, by conjugating together and speaking their own language and reinforcing their isolation from the majority tend to put themselves in the gunsights of those looking to lash out.
Its not their fault, its merely their place in society because that is what humans and animals do in groups.
It reinforces the imperative to climb to the top and step on others to get there.
Pick any minority, be it, blacks,those from India, Muslim countries etc and you will find them doing exactly the same things in their home countries to someone else they concider lower than them and subject them to racism.

Are you still going to try to argue only whites are racists?



_________________
Image Image
Top
                 
HM-PuFFNSTuFF
Canadian Shaft
Canadian Shaft
Joined: 01 Mar 2001
Posts: 19998
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 04:47 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Canidae wrote:

Are you still going to try to argue only whites are racists?


when did I say that? lol
Top
                 
7zark7
Knight of the Sad Countenance
Knight of the Sad Countenance
Joined: 12 Nov 2001
Posts: 8035
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 04:47 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I thought the only minority on this planet was the so called white people.



_________________
My Flickr page

A lot of people would say it's a bad idea, on your first day out of prison, to go right back to stalking the tranny hooker that knocked out five of your teeth. But that's how I roll..
Top
                 
Canidae
Immortal
Immortal
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 2237
PostPosted: 08-30-2006 04:49 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


7zark7 wrote:
I thought the only minority on this planet was the so called white people.


Thats the funny part.



_________________
Image Image
Top
                 
Quake3World.com | Forum Index | General Discussion


Post new topic Reply to topic


cron
Quake3World.com
© ZeniMax. Zenimax, QUAKE III ARENA, Id Software and associated trademarks are trademarks of the ZeniMax group of companies. All rights reserved.
This is an unofficial fan website without any affiliation with or endorsement by ZeniMax.
All views and opinions expressed are those of the author.