well ok let me put it differently then;

an atheist would say
i know that there is no god, based on [facts and observations]. there is no other conclusion.

while an agnost would say;
based on facts and observations, i dont think theres a god. however i could be wrong and there might be.


the biggest difference is that one 'knows', while the other 'thinks'.

lol ur a fucking idiot transient...worst advice ever...

due to lack of observations, true.
using that logic, evolution is indeed not science.

but, since you seem to be proficient with pseudo-filosophical knowdledge, you'd also know that in science terms NOTHING is certain, even after extensive testing and experiments. "to know" has a different meaning in science than it has in nonscientific contexts. see tnf for more details.

so obviously, noone KNOWS there is no god. so again, using that logic, 100% of the people are agnostic

@rook: i think i know what thread you're talking about. i think we had the exact same discussion there, too

as for me loading terms. right now im lifting them from the dictionary. blame the american heritage for definitions, and society for loading them.

hence the clownboat.
"using that logic" refers to geoffs get-out-of-jail-for-free-card of "yea but noone knows". reversing that brings up above argument, which is indeed bogus.

ergo, before starting any discussion, especially sciencerelated ones, both party should agree on definitions first (e.g. 'to know'). otherwise youd get crap like above - you can always make a discussion as highlevel as you want, but that brings it dangerously close to philosophy.

which, coincidentally, will always come full circle back to arguing semantics.

Well, I mostly agree with what Dawkins said in the video Fender posted. While it may be better to use less loaded terms like "non-theist," for practical purposes, I prefer to take the word atheist back, from its etymological meaning - the sum of its parts - instead of backing away from the term due to others' biases.

.. ofcourse its impossible to have a normal discussion with geoff - the man hides behind trailing sentences and insinuations.
quite a pity cause i think he's an intelligent individual and im sure he actually has something to say.

then again, discussions like this are much better had over a series of beers than over a series of tubes :\

eh
agnostic means you dont know either way and youll never know.
thats not the same as saying you dont believe.

Stand Alone

[Schaffer, Barlow]

Listen not to ones who preach
Those who feel you're a freak
Everything about you is wrong
You must be sick, you don't belong

Father said, worry not what they say
Use your mind, your own free will
In a time when everyone follows
Ignorance can kill

They only say what they want you to hear
Half-truths have been twisted to conceal your fate
In a world of spoon-fed emotion
Intelligence can save

[chorus]
Stand alone
Hear what I say
Stand alone
You will seize the day

Son, say what you mean, don't be afraid
Tell them how you feel, hear what I say
Be true to yourself and true to your own
Your spirit will crush the hearts of stone

Stand alone
Hear what I say
Stand alone
It's a leap of faith

busy day...
this space reserved

I believe in god because if he's real then I'll get to see your dad again. So I really like that and I know someday we'll be together again.

It's funny how atheist's still talk about marriage, it's all in your mind... There is nothing special about marriage, it's just another stupid tradition that people can't let go of.