Quake3World.com Forums
     General Discussion
        Guild Wars 2
Post new topicReply to topic
Login | Profile | | FAQ | Search | IRC




Previous topic | Next topic 
Topic Starter Topic: Guild Wars 2
U4EA
i liek boobies
i liek boobies
Joined: 26 Nov 2000
Posts: 11930
PostPosted: 04-20-2012 11:34 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


So, the Guild Wars 2 beta is next week. You can get access by pre-ordering the game. Will anyone be playing that? GW2 was off my radar for a long time, but I may give the beta a shot.

http://www.arena.net/blog/the-beta-week ... -is-coming

Professions [the usual archetypes] and races [as well].

We had a decent sized contingent last time around.
Top
                 
Mat Linnett
Shambolic
Shambolic
Joined: 11 Apr 2000
Posts: 8026
PostPosted: 04-21-2012 02:08 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm there :)
Guaranteed a spot with a pre-order too.
Top
                 
U4EA
i liek boobies
i liek boobies
Joined: 26 Nov 2000
Posts: 11930
PostPosted: 04-21-2012 02:57 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Image
Top
                 
Transient
Arrr?
Arrr?
Joined: 09 Feb 2001
Posts: 35461
PostPosted: 04-21-2012 11:20 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/faq ... 34427.html

Apparently there may be a difference between pre-ordering the game through a 3rd party store and pre-purchasing the game directly from ArenaNet.

ArenaNet wrote:
The only way to absolutely guarantee your access to this or any future Beta Weekend Events is to pre-purchase any edition of Guild Wars 2.



_________________
YourGrandpa wrote:
I'm satisfied with voicing my opinion and moving on.
Top
                 
Mogul
OUR HERO
OUR HERO
Joined: 23 May 1973
Posts: 3273
PostPosted: 04-21-2012 12:54 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


LOL MMOS U FAGS!!!!!!!!!!!



_________________
This line only remake is total rubbish I've ever seen!!! Fuck off!!! --CZghost
Top
                 
Mat Linnett
Shambolic
Shambolic
Joined: 11 Apr 2000
Posts: 8026
PostPosted: 04-21-2012 01:16 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I pre-ordered directly from ArenaNet and have already had my access code linked to my existing Guild Wars account.
Top
                 
Eraser
Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 44138
PostPosted: 04-22-2012 11:53 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Image

Would love to play GW2, but I'm afraid I simply don't have the time available for it.
Top
                 
Ryoki
Karot!
Karot!
Joined: 31 Jul 2001
Posts: 19348
PostPosted: 04-23-2012 12:30 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Everything i've seen about Guild Wars 2 so far really makes me want to play it, but yeah... what Eraser said :tear:



_________________
io chiamo pinguini!
Top
                 
Mogul
OUR HERO
OUR HERO
Joined: 23 May 1973
Posts: 3273
PostPosted: 04-23-2012 10:05 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I don't know... I really don't like how the game doesn't cater to the "trinity" role system (tank, healer, damage). I felt that way about the first game, too. It's like, get a group, go to the dungeon, and everybody just starts spamming their abilities. Eventually you come out on top.

At the risk of sounding like I have no idea how GW PvE works (I only had one max-level character), that seems like a stupid setup. For comparison, if you look at the Burning Crusade (and early Cataclysm) heroics, the beauty of the trinity system really stood out. You had to crowd control specific targets for specific reasons, then burn the remaining targets down in a specific order -- mobs that were being tanked away from the CC'd mobs so they could be carefully damaged without breaking CC... and so on. In Guild Wars, it seemed (and it looks to play out the same way in GW2) that everybody just rushed into the dungeon and spammed buttons until they won.

Again, am I missing something here? I'd be very glad to find that I'm wrong on this and there actually is some depth to GW/GW2's PvE.



_________________
This line only remake is total rubbish I've ever seen!!! Fuck off!!! --CZghost
Top
                 
Mat Linnett
Shambolic
Shambolic
Joined: 11 Apr 2000
Posts: 8026
PostPosted: 04-23-2012 12:52 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


But Holy Trinity is such a staid, unoriginal, bad habit in MMOs.
And no, spamming abilities will not win in even the first Guild Wars. You have to plan ability bars according to what you're going to be facing. Then you have the synergies between conditions, hexes and the removal thereof or exploitation of such for damage spiking. Then there's interrupt skills, which work far better in GW than in any other MMO I've played. Topping that off, very few skills take more than a minute to cool down, with most cooling down in 20 seconds or less. This all adds up to incredibly dynamic combat where you have massive leeway for specialisation.
Finally, when played as a single player game with a full team of AI "Heroes", it becomes more a strategy game as you have the ability to govern exactly where on the battlefield your companions will stand and whether they will automatically use their skills or you will choose when is best.

Most MMO players don't "Get" Guild Wars. They see the limitations placed on levels or number of skills or the flat levelling curve and easy attainability of top tier gear and automatically assume it's simple.
But the beauty of Guild Wars lies in those restrictions.
With well over 200 skills to choose from at top level, which eight will best suit the current map?
You never have to worry about other team members having spent months or even years grinding out top tier gear, as the best equipment is easily attainable in a week or even less.
And the best part?
Because of the low level cap, I would say that a good 75% of the content you're playing in Guild Wars is what other games would consider "End Game". When was the last time you played an MMO with that much content available for top level players?

Edit: Oh, and Mesmer is the best PvP class in any MMO ever. Nothing beats the satisfaction of having picked the right skill bar and having someone ragequit because you know your class well enough you can completely shut them down >:D
A little dull in PvE, Mesmers come in to their own when you know some poor schmuck is on the receiving end of your shutdowns. Hell, even Mesmer gimmick builds are utterly hilarious, such as the abilities that allow you to "Steal" a random skill from an enemy which is shut down for them whilst you gain the ability to use it.
Top
                 
Mogul
OUR HERO
OUR HERO
Joined: 23 May 1973
Posts: 3273
PostPosted: 04-23-2012 01:08 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


For what it's worth, the thing I wish more MMOs would take from Guild Wars is the 8 skillbar slot limitation.



_________________
This line only remake is total rubbish I've ever seen!!! Fuck off!!! --CZghost
Top
                 
Mat Linnett
Shambolic
Shambolic
Joined: 11 Apr 2000
Posts: 8026
PostPosted: 04-23-2012 01:25 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Just had a quick blast for the first time in a while on my favourite PvP map, Jade Quarry, and it's still as great as ever. And what's even better, my old self-built Jade Quarry Mesmer build still works a treat.

Edit: The thing that makes the PvP stand out is that there really is no way of gaining a major advantage over other players thanks to gear or being a higher level. Everyone is on an equal footing, it comes down to your build and your skill, and as builds can be changed whenever you're in an outpost with absolutely no penalty, it encourages experimentation.
Top
                 
phantasmagoria
Bück Dich
Bück Dich
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Posts: 6228
PostPosted: 04-23-2012 02:00 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ryoki wrote:
Everything i've seen about Guild Wars 2 so far really makes me want to play it, but yeah... what Eraser said :tear:


dump her :cry:



_________________
[size=85]
Top
                 
Mat Linnett
Shambolic
Shambolic
Joined: 11 Apr 2000
Posts: 8026
PostPosted: 04-23-2012 02:41 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Memphis wrote:
I wonder how i'd do at GW PvP nowadays after countless hours of WoW battlegrounds. I vaguely remember being completely fucking useless at it. That and everyone running around in pants.


To be honest, GW really isn't built around the idea of the individual in PvP. It's very much a case of picking a role that'll best benefit the team. If you tried it now, you'd best be prepared to do some research in to what builds work best where. It's why I favour Jade Quarry and Fort Aspenwood. Those are far less dependent on trinity style play as they're objective based. Besides which, they're instant respawn with no Death Penalty.
Being good at GW PvP means understanding the disciplines for all other classes as well as the one you're playing. That way, you can tailor your build accordingly. For example, I know I'll meet a lot of Smiter monks and Necro bombers in Jade Quarry, so my build focuses on shutdown skills and spike damage that relies on those shutdowns being active. Chuck in a little AoE for those pesky AI defenders and I'm golden.
I know GW2's on the way, but if the beta this weekend gives you the urge to go back and explore the original, check out the PvX Wiki, an excellent database of working builds for any given situation. You can just copy and paste the build codes in to GW's skill template management system and you're ready to roll.
Top
                 
U4EA
i liek boobies
i liek boobies
Joined: 26 Nov 2000
Posts: 11930
PostPosted: 04-23-2012 08:22 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Mogul wrote:
For what it's worth, the thing I wish more MMOs would take from Guild Wars is the 8 skillbar slot limitation.

So, the difference is just 2 skills? The 8 skill limitation is great in GW and should be applied to other games, but 6 skills in D3 is too few? Not having a go, genuinely curious. Also, the 6 skills are 4 more than they had in D2!

BTW, Mat one thing that I disagree with you about is the sheer number of skills in GW. You had lots of very niche and frankly not very good skills and very few usable ones. Figuring out which was which took either a lot of experimentation or, eventually, research. In a sense, that sort of theorycrafting can be fun, but I think GW took it way too far and was way too bloated. I've read a similar sentiment from the devs and about how they are focussing a lot more on the quality of skills rather than the quantity.
Top
                 
Eraser
Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 44138
PostPosted: 04-23-2012 11:58 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Guild Wars' 55 hitpoint monk configuration showed how beautiful a finely tuned skill set with the proper gear could work.




Last edited by Eraser on 04-24-2012 12:03 AM, edited 1 time in total.
Top
                 
Ryoki
Karot!
Karot!
Joined: 31 Jul 2001
Posts: 19348
PostPosted: 04-24-2012 12:01 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


phantasmagoria wrote:
dump her :cry:


Haha nooo, she makes me happy :)

Didn't you have a girl too these days? How's that going?



_________________
io chiamo pinguini!
Top
                 
phantasmagoria
Bück Dich
Bück Dich
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Posts: 6228
PostPosted: 04-24-2012 09:07 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I dumped her \o/



_________________
[size=85]
Top
                 
Tsakali
opa!
opa!
Joined: 02 Mar 2000
Posts: 14658
PostPosted: 04-24-2012 09:07 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


so now you're left with \,/
Top
                 
Mat Linnett
Shambolic
Shambolic
Joined: 11 Apr 2000
Posts: 8026
PostPosted: 04-24-2012 10:03 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Beta client downloading :D
Top
                 
Eraser
Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 44138
PostPosted: 04-24-2012 11:19 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Memphis wrote:
Running though my screenies...GW1 doesn't look half as good as I remember it.


I was thinking the same thing seeing these screenshots. I remember it as a gorgeous game.
Top
                 
MKJ
Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
Joined: 24 Nov 2000
Posts: 44139
PostPosted: 04-24-2012 11:54 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


it looked pretty enough to me.
i liked the lush enviroments.. before they breached the wall and that seaboard bit.

<3 gw. too bad it turned to a WTB-fest pretty quick.
Top
                 
Mat Linnett
Shambolic
Shambolic
Joined: 11 Apr 2000
Posts: 8026
PostPosted: 04-25-2012 03:30 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Heh, you should head back MKJ; they came down heavily on trading in global chat a few years back and now trading is done pretty exclusively via party search in only a few places.
Guild Wars still does look great, but yeah, it's easy to see the workings.
If you've got the Eye of the North expansion, that's probably got the best looking environments.
Top
                 
U4EA
i liek boobies
i liek boobies
Joined: 26 Nov 2000
Posts: 11930
PostPosted: 04-26-2012 02:45 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Not sure I'm reading this correctly, but if so, this means no more international districts and freely being able to play with anyone around the world?

http://www.arena.net/blog/choosing-and- ... ild-wars-2

If so, that's going to suck major ass. I'll be playing on US west coast servers for latency reasons.
Top
                 
Eraser
Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 44138
PostPosted: 04-26-2012 03:37 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Quote:
When Guild Wars 2 launches, you will also have the option to play with your friends on another world with our free “guesting” feature. With guesting, your characters can play on any world where you have friends—with certain restrictions. For instance, you will not be able to participate in WvW while guesting.

While home-world selection and world transfers will be available during our Beta Weekend Event, guesting is not currently available. All players will be able to receive 2,000 gems free for the Beta Weekend Event, so you will be able to purchase a world transfer if you find yourself in need of one. Since the limit is one transfer every seven days, you’ll only be able to change worlds once during the Beta Weekend Event.


Looks like you can play PvE and PvP with your friends from all over the world. Just not the WvW mode.
Top
                 
Mat Linnett
Shambolic
Shambolic
Joined: 11 Apr 2000
Posts: 8026
PostPosted: 04-26-2012 11:03 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Any of you Euromos interested in joining me and a few other buddies, I'll be rolling on Ring of Fire.
Top
                 
U4EA
i liek boobies
i liek boobies
Joined: 26 Nov 2000
Posts: 11930
PostPosted: 04-26-2012 02:08 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
Looks like you can play PvE and PvP with your friends from all over the world. Just not the WvW mode.

Ah cool, I didn't really get what they meant there but guesting seems like it will fit the bill. Not available in beta though, so meh.
Top
                 
MKJ
Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
Joined: 24 Nov 2000
Posts: 44139
PostPosted: 04-26-2012 11:31 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


much like the other momos here, I really dont have the time anymore I think.
that is, the time would be fragmented in 1 hr stints.. that doesnt quite work with a game where you want to be invested and immersed in IMO. :/

I miss those GW days. Im no MMO peep at all, and I dont care about PvP. the whole PvE stuff really felt like adventuring, especially when playing with people equally noobed as yourself.

no fun playing with someone who has 32 pimped out characters and takes all the shortcuts through all the quests. irite?
Top
                 
Eraser
Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 44138
PostPosted: 04-26-2012 11:49 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


spot on :up:
Top
                 
Mat Linnett
Shambolic
Shambolic
Joined: 11 Apr 2000
Posts: 8026
PostPosted: 04-27-2012 11:13 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


So it started an hour earlier than the site was saying, and that hour was fun enough, but then 8PM hit and it appears everyone in the world tried to connect. Now you just can't get in.
Top
                 
U4EA
i liek boobies
i liek boobies
Joined: 26 Nov 2000
Posts: 11930
PostPosted: 04-27-2012 07:18 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The PvE experience in this game is so far removed from the traditional quest hub mechanic of regular MMOs that I'm completely and utterly gobsmacked. Massive respect to ArenaNET for being so brave. I'm loving it for the moment, time will tell whether it has staying power after the novelty wears off.
Top
                 
Mat Linnett
Shambolic
Shambolic
Joined: 11 Apr 2000
Posts: 8026
PostPosted: 04-30-2012 12:22 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Okay, Beta's finished so I'll post some thoughts.

PvE and "Events"? Utterly brilliant.
First, you have to understand that the game actively scales your character level down to whichever area you're in. While this sounds incredibly bad, in practise it's brilliant. I'll explain further later.

Secondly, the hype about seamlessly joining events? All true. The PvE in this actively encourages team play. I mean, saying it like that really doesn't do it justice. Events ping up an announcement if you're near one, then you just check your map or radar and head for the action. Depending on how much you contribute to an encounter, you'll get a reward accordingly. As long as you're actively participating for more than a couple of kills, it's easy to get the top reward for any encounter. I'm not saying that encounters themselves are easy, just that participating is.
Even if you and your fellow players fail an event, you'll still get a reward when it fails, plus you may unlock an even more interesting and rewarding event. My best experience of the whole weekend was when the Underworld had been allowed to encroach a little too far in to the swamp. Demons and portals were getting out of control over a wide area. Pushing them back to where they started, a huge boss spawned; this was obviously one of the major encounters they've been touting. Upon defeating him, he dropped a massive boss chest, the only one I saw all weekend, that dished out lots of nice loot to the participants. I'd dealt with the portals and demons prior to this yet had never had the boss spawn; I'm sure he only occurred because the demons had been allowed to spread so far in the first place.

So why is level scaling in this a good thing?
Basically, it means that no matter where you're playing, you can continue to level. This is great for guilds, as it makes helping lower level guild members through early content less of a chore. They need to tweak the rewards somewhat, as while you get the same experience points while fighting in a lower level area or one more suited to your level, lower level areas don't reward higher level players with the same loot that other areas would. I think the best solution here would be to flatten the Karma reward system.
Karma's a resource you get for completing quests and events, which can be used on its own to buy gear from particular vendors. These Karma vendors are the natural evolution of those guys from the original game that would give you equipment in exchange for items dropped by monsters (such as mossy mandibles). The beauty of this new system is that you now have a unified resource for these vendors, so getting gear appropriate to the area you're questing in just requires playing some events or doing some quests. Because they've left in a scale for the karma system, it basically means that higher level players will quickly realise they're better off playing higher level areas, as while they'll get 50 karma for completing an event in a lower level area, they'll get 1,000 or more for doing the same amount of work in a higher level area. Flattening the karma reward system and the cost of items associated with it would alleviate this issue.

Having played Age of Conan recently, I can see that the GW2 team grabbed some inspiration from there.
The world is organised pretty much identically; the map is divided into areas and each area is a massive instance. Think of 2-3 areas from the original game merged together to create one. This division of instances doesn't really cause any issues, as each is absolutely massive, again much like Conan.

Getting around the world is pretty simple, and the skill of ArenaNet's level designers becomes apparent very quickly. You know those times in an MMO where you were forced to take a 30 minute diversion to get to a place on the map that looks like it's only a few feet away? Even with jumping, climbing and mounts? Yeah, those experiences pretty much don't exist in GW2.
On top of that, the've implemented a waypoint system that emulates the freedom of movement around the world from the original game very nicely. As you explore a map, you'll reveal waypoints. At any time, you can open your map and teleport to any waypoint in the world that you've previously discovered. There's a gold cost associated with doing so however. I'm still trying to work out if attaching a cost to such a system is a good idea. Sure, prices are pretty damn trivial; killing a couple of monsters will get you enough copper to teleport to any of the waypoints you've discovered in your current instance. But it could end up becoming prohibitively expensive at higher levels.

One thing I hate about the game is that they've implemented a gear damage system, something I absolutely detest in every other game it appears in. This is one of the components of their death penalty system. If you've been following the game at all, more than likely you're aware of the whole "Downed" system (which, I might add, is utterly brilliant). If not, I'll explain.
When you reach 0 HP in Guild Wars 2, you enter a "Downed" state, where your character lies on the floor but has a few unique skills available to them. For the Warrior these consisted of throwing rocks, throwing something bigger that knocks an enemy down, an instant revival that counts down a timer at the end of which you enter "Defeated" state (ie, die), and a health regen skill. Any other player can choose to revive you, and it's in their interest to do so, as they get experience for doing it. If you then lose all of your health while in the downed state, you become "Defeated", where you can either wait for someone to revive you or teleport to the nearest waypoint. Every time you enter a "Defeated" state, a piece of armour gets damaged, reducing its effectiveness. If the same piece of armour gets damaged twice, it completely breaks, providing you with no benefit at all. The problems with this system?
Firstly, repairs cost money. A trivial amount, but still annoying.
Secondly, unless you're able to obtain the ridiculously rare repair kits, repairs can only be done by certain vendors. Unfortunately there are only 2-3 of these particular vendors per area, inevitably being miles away from where you died, meaning that if you want to remain effective you have to go out of your way to get repairs, lengthening the time it'll take you to get back in to the fight.
I can somewhat understand ArenaNet attaching a cost to armour repairs; they need money sinks all over the place to help regulate the economy, so I think the best solution here would be to add an armour repair vendor close to every waypoint, or do away with them altogether and make repair kits widely available.

Overall though, utterly brilliant, and yes, a much needed evolution of the MMO. And ye gods does it feel good to finally be free of the "Holy Trinity".
Top
                 
MKJ
Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
Joined: 24 Nov 2000
Posts: 44139
PostPosted: 04-30-2012 01:30 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ffs i need to stop reading this thread.
Top
                 
U4EA
i liek boobies
i liek boobies
Joined: 26 Nov 2000
Posts: 11930
PostPosted: 04-30-2012 01:33 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Pretty much in full agreement with you, Mat. I played a norn and there was a massive boss battle at the end of that area as well, though perhaps not the same type of encounter as we didn't get a chest. There were so many people there working together to kill him though, and he was quite buff due to the high number of players. It took us close to 20 minutes to kill him.

I hadn't really researched much about this game and I was completely blown away by the freshness of the PvE/levelling experience.
Top
                 
Transient
Arrr?
Arrr?
Joined: 09 Feb 2001
Posts: 35461
PostPosted: 04-30-2012 06:49 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Mat Linnett wrote:
Okay, Beta's finished so I'll post some thoughts.

[snip]

Nice review! I procrastinated pre-purchasing the game last week and now I'm thinking I should snag it before next weekend. :up:



_________________
YourGrandpa wrote:
I'm satisfied with voicing my opinion and moving on.
Top
                 
Quake3World.com | Forum Index | General Discussion


Post new topic Reply to topic


cron
Quake3World.com
© ZeniMax. Zenimax, QUAKE III ARENA, Id Software and associated trademarks are trademarks of the ZeniMax group of companies. All rights reserved.
This is an unofficial fan website without any affiliation with or endorsement by ZeniMax.
All views and opinions expressed are those of the author.