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Topic Starter Topic: Re: President Trump

Lead Pipe Mafia
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PostPosted: 10-04-2018 05:45 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
Κracus wrote:
By removing decisions from individual people and by making it based on votes you eliminate personal biases and decisions and make things standard for everyone.


Yes, because history has shown that voting is always a purely fact-based decision with no emotions involved at all.


Without gerrymandering and lobbying I feel optimistic it might help. Nothing can ever be perfect but it can be better than it is now.




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Pestilence
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PostPosted: 10-04-2018 06:52 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Κracus wrote:
I do not, care to explain?


You said the product value would go up because no one wanted to work there, increasing profits. Then go to say that would give people incentive to work there. By that logic the value would go back down and you're back at square one. You're baked again, aren't you?




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Blockheaded Blubberboy
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PostPosted: 10-04-2018 07:15 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Κracus wrote:
No, you're either putting words in my mouth or aren't understanding what I'm saying.

The whole point of this is to take money out of politics and what I'm suggesting is a more automated and ethical method of managing a business. They don't create artificial value, the value is dictated by the market directly. If no one wants to buy the product then the product doesn't sell for very much and would eventually stop being sold if no one is buying. The increase in pay is directly tied to the profitability of the product being sold. The more popular and higher priced the item is, the better the profits which gets passed down to those that directly aided with its production. Government has no say beyond recouping the base cost of running the business plus the taxes it would get from sales of the products.


If government runs business, how do the citizens track earnings? If business is government owned, how do we buy stock? If the government owned all big business, there's no competition and/or motivation for product/technical improvements. How many branches of government will be added to manage every aspect of these businesses? What's the motivation for entrepreneurs to invent new products and create new business, if ultimately the government is going to take it over? Why would you expect government to effectively run big business when everything they do runs at a deficit? Why would you trust the government with your weekly/monthly/annual salary, when they can't even guarantee your social security (retirement)? I could go on and on...

Your idea is an ill-conceived fantasy at best. Maybe you should smoke some more weed and dream up another utopia.




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Lead Pipe Mafia
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PostPosted: 10-04-2018 08:51 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Scourge wrote:
Κracus wrote:
I do not, care to explain?


You said the product value would go up because no one wanted to work there, increasing profits. Then go to say that would give people incentive to work there. By that logic the value would go back down and you're back at square one. You're baked again, aren't you?


Yes I am but supply is also a factor in how much of a thing you can produce. Let's use an iphone as an example, you can only obtain so much material and make so many phones a year. Not everyone can afford one so the prices will be what it costs to make, plus whatever the public will pay to own something that has a limited supply. Food and basic needs should be produced in enough quantity for it not to be subject to those same issues.




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Lead Pipe Mafia
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PostPosted: 10-04-2018 08:58 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


YourGrandpa wrote:
If government runs business, how do the citizens track earnings? If business is government owned, how do we buy stock? If the government owned all big business, there's no competition and/or motivation for product/technical improvements. How many branches of government will be added to manage every aspect of these businesses? What's the motivation for entrepreneurs to invent new products and create new business, if ultimately the government is going to take it over? Why would you expect government to effectively run big business when everything they do runs at a deficit? Why would you trust the government with your weekly/monthly/annual salary, when they can't even guarantee your social security (retirement)? I could go on and on...

Your idea is an ill-conceived fantasy at best. Maybe you should smoke some more weed and dream up another utopia.



Government transparently tracks buisness earnings.

There probably wouldn't be stock in this style of government as business costs are run off tax dollars.

Technical improvements would be important because whoever worked on them and created them would get a lifetime royalty from that invention.

However many branches would be needed. Keep in mind a lot of this would be automated.

Creating new products, new businesses result in that lifetime royalty I mentioned.

In this scenario where an automated government is in place a lot of the policies and decisions are done via public votes so "trusting someone" is really out of the equation.

I'm not saying I've thought of everything here, but I do feel like a new style of government is needed across the globe, these are just musings of mine, very much like my ancient random thought threads I used to post. It's nice to have people pointing out things they might see as flaws though as I'm sure there are some aspects I may have missed and sure, maybe it's a little wishful thinking but hey, at least it's thinking.




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The fuct one!
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PostPosted: 10-04-2018 09:47 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I wouldn't be for any state-sponsored work forces like this. Despite the intentions, it won't end well. This is no different than a form of slavery.




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Blockheaded Blubberboy
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PostPosted: 10-04-2018 01:33 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Κracus wrote:

Government transparently tracks buisness earnings. LOL, like that's ever going to happen.

There probably wouldn't be stock in this style of government as business costs are run off tax dollars. What do we do about existing stocks?

Technical improvements would be important because whoever worked on them and created them would get a lifetime royalty from that invention. Who wants to surrender their inventions to the government for a state decided stipend? No one?

However many branches would be needed. Keep in mind a lot of this would be automated. You can't automate management and supervision.

Creating new products, new businesses result in that lifetime royalty I mentioned. Why one lifetime? Successful people build fortunes that take care of their families for several lifetimes.

In this scenario where an automated government is in place a lot of the policies and decisions are done via public votes so "trusting someone" is really out of the equation. In business there are unique, circumstantial decisions that could have monumental impact that need resolution on a daily basis. They can't wait for a vote. Nor would you want someone so removed from the situation voting on those decision.

I'm not saying I've thought of everything here, but I do feel like a new style of government is needed across the globe, these are just musings of mine, very much like my ancient random thought threads I used to post. It's nice to have people pointing out things they might see as flaws though as I'm sure there are some aspects I may have missed and sure, maybe it's a little wishful thinking but hey, at least it's thinking.

Keep thinking, you're not even close.




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Lead Pipe Mafia
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PostPosted: 10-05-2018 03:47 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm not going to address your counter points because it's just a hypothetical thought. You don't know that it wouldn't work any more than you know it would but one thing you're dead wrong on is that you can automate management and supervision. I guarantee as automation becomes more and more complex that administrative tasks will start being taken over. It does make for a more rigid system but the current system is heavily flawed and absolutely rife with corruption.




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Blockheaded Blubberboy
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PostPosted: 10-05-2018 09:54 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yeah, don't address the logistical problems with your nonsensical thoughts. Just keep ignorantly barreling forward. :tard:




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Lead Pipe Mafia
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PostPosted: 10-05-2018 10:05 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Projecting much?




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Blockheaded Blubberboy
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PostPosted: 10-05-2018 02:05 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


No.




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Etile
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PostPosted: 10-05-2018 03:52 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


i wonder how many people have believed they're discovered the magic formula for 'nice communism', and how much weed did they need to smoke to get there?




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Pestilence
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PostPosted: 10-05-2018 04:38 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


:olo: kinda what I was thinking.




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Blockheaded Blubberboy
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PostPosted: 10-06-2018 08:11 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Believing government will take in all the money and evenly distribute it back to the people has to be one of the most naive thoughts one could have.




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Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
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PostPosted: 10-07-2018 02:00 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Meanwhile, Kavanaugh.




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The fuct one!
The fuct one!
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PostPosted: 10-08-2018 09:07 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


MKJ wrote:
Meanwhile, Kavanaugh.


The entire process surrounding him sickens me as an American.




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Blockheaded Blubberboy
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PostPosted: 10-08-2018 01:01 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


raw wrote:
The entire process surrounding him sickens me as an American.


Can you explain what specifically sickens you? Was it the selection of the specific person or his political affiliation? Was it the accusations or the timing of the accusations? I'm curious.




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Shambolic
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PostPosted: 10-08-2018 01:13 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Good Wired piece over here. A bit depressing really, as how do you fight such entrenched, mass stupidity?




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Warrior
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PostPosted: 10-08-2018 05:33 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


MKJ wrote:
Meanwhile, Kavanaugh.


Image

:q3:




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The Afflicted
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PostPosted: 10-09-2018 03:01 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I got to watch the Kavanaugh-hearing as a european. It took me 5 minutes to realize I was not watching a Reality TV Show.
Upon realization I turned off the TV.
I mean, really? Are you US-guys still in your right minds?
How is it even possible to judge a person upon this presentation?




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Blockheaded Blubberboy
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PostPosted: 10-09-2018 06:40 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The reality is, this was a last ditch effort to delay/disqualify the Kavanaugh appointment beyond the primary elections in hopes the Dem/Rep occupation of the Senate would shift in the Dems favor. The Dems did not want to be the minority in the Senate and the Supreme Court. This political tactic had zero concern about Kavanaugh or how the women involved may or may not have been treated.




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The fuct one!
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PostPosted: 10-09-2018 12:50 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


YourGrandpa wrote:
raw wrote:
The entire process surrounding him sickens me as an American.


Can you explain what specifically sickens you? Was it the selection of the specific person or his political affiliation? Was it the accusations or the timing of the accusations? I'm curious.


Senator Chuck Grassley and Mitch McConnell's behaviors specifically. Kavanaugh despite any accusations was a poor candidate and his behavior throughout the entire process was clear he does not have the temperament nor balance required for this extremely significant role in our country. Not to mention, this is a lifetime appointment and this dude was rushed through for the sake of Midterms.




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The fuct one!
The fuct one!
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PostPosted: 10-09-2018 12:56 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Lessons Learned since 2016: DO NOT ATTEMPT TO REASON WITH A TRUMP SUPPORTER! It's a fruitless endeavor.




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Blockheaded Blubberboy
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PostPosted: 10-09-2018 04:11 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


raw wrote:
Senator Chuck Grassley and Mitch McConnell's behaviors specifically. Kavanaugh despite any accusations was a poor candidate and his behavior throughout the entire process was clear he does not have the temperament nor balance required for this extremely significant role in our country. Not to mention, this is a lifetime appointment and this dude was rushed through for the sake of Midterms.


Poor candidate, for who? He's a Yale graduate that has severed as a judge in the highest levels of court for many years.

What do you mean by "rushed"?

Kavanaugh was nominated to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit by President Bush in 2003. His confirmation hearings were contentious; they stalled for three years over charges of partisanship. He was ultimately confirmed to the D.C. Circuit in May 2006 after a series of negotiations between Democratic and Republican U.S. Senators.

He was certainly vetted.

A conservative judge appointed by a Republican president shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. If he was a Democrat with the same background and experience he would be a slam dunk for either party. No additional vetting required.

Oh btw, if that last remark was directed at me, I'm not a Trump supporter.




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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 10-09-2018 08:45 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


He perjured himself multiple times, that alone was reason not to confirm.




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Blockheaded Blubberboy
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PostPosted: 10-10-2018 04:00 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


In your opinion, of course.




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The fuct one!
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PostPosted: 10-10-2018 04:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


YourGrandpa wrote:
raw wrote:
Senator Chuck Grassley and Mitch McConnell's behaviors specifically. Kavanaugh despite any accusations was a poor candidate and his behavior throughout the entire process was clear he does not have the temperament nor balance required for this extremely significant role in our country. Not to mention, this is a lifetime appointment and this dude was rushed through for the sake of Midterms.


Poor candidate, for who? He's a Yale graduate that has severed as a judge in the highest levels of court for many years.

What do you mean by "rushed"?

Kavanaugh was nominated to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit by President Bush in 2003. His confirmation hearings were contentious; they stalled for three years over charges of partisanship. He was ultimately confirmed to the D.C. Circuit in May 2006 after a series of negotiations between Democratic and Republican U.S. Senators.

He was certainly vetted.

A conservative judge appointed by a Republican president shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. If he was a Democrat with the same background and experience he would be a slam dunk for either party. No additional vetting required.

Oh btw, if that last remark was directed at me, I'm not a Trump supporter.


First, even the person who recommended Kavanaugh said there was no significance in his choice. He is literally quoted as saying they have a list of 25 Republican judges that represent what they want and they could have thrown a dart at the list and picked one. Oh, and the "vetting" only goes a few levels deep and wouldn't uncover what was uncovered in the confirmation hearings.

As far as a conservative judge, no, it doesn't surprise me. What surprises me is the lengths these assholes will go to put "their man" in place without any real investigation. The senate judiciary committee set the scope of the investigation and the white house blocked it. Certainly there was a pro-conservative judge they could have supported that didn't shit the bed in the public eye. However, Grassley and McConnell pushed ahead with Kavanaugh as a big "fuck you" to the Democrats as well as the rest of America.

No, the last comment wasn't directed at you. It's directed to those it applies to.




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The fuct one!
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PostPosted: 10-10-2018 04:28 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


YourGrandpa wrote:
In your opinion, of course.


We wouldn't have to rely on opinion if the Republicans in power weren't so hell-bent on obstructing justice to cater to their personal narratives.




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Blockheaded Blubberboy
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PostPosted: 10-10-2018 05:52 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm not going to prolong this discussion with what was or was not substantiated. I'll just say this. If the shoe was on the democratic party's foot, this would have went the exact same way. To label this type of political wrangling Republican or Democrat is naive. This our special interest run government doing what is best for them. If you think otherwise, you're politically bias.




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The fuct one!
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PostPosted: 10-10-2018 08:02 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


LOL Thanks for the judgments and the avoidance of any substance Gramps. As expected, you came with nothing to offer and everything to say.




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Lead Pipe Mafia
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PostPosted: 10-10-2018 08:04 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Didn't the repubs block Obama from putting a democratic judge? They should really rename themselves to the hypocritical party.

Your party affiliation should be completely removed from being nominated to this position anyway, it's pretty stupid to have so many partisan people in that position of power.




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The fuct one!
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PostPosted: 10-10-2018 09:15 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Κracus wrote:
Didn't the repubs block Obama from putting a democratic judge? They should really rename themselves to the hypocritical party.

Your party affiliation should be completely removed from being nominated to this position anyway, it's pretty stupid to have so many partisan people in that position of power.


Yeah, Merrick Garland. McConnell back then told Obama he can't have a supreme court justice and bragged how he stopped the supreme court from having an odd number of justices which made it a constant stale-mate.




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Arrr?
Arrr?
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PostPosted: 10-10-2018 09:31 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


YourGrandpa wrote:
In your opinion, of course.

No, it was a statement of fact. Look it up.




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Blockheaded Blubberboy
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PostPosted: 10-10-2018 09:46 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


raw wrote:
LOL Thanks for the judgments and the avoidance of any substance Gramps. As expected, you came with nothing to offer and everything to say.


What is left to be said? It's only a matter of your opinion at this point. But I'm willing to remain impartial if there is something specific you want to discuss. It is kind of funny how you don't see the Democrats attempt to block the Kavanaugh appointment as having the same motivation as the Republicans blocking Obama's appointment.




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Blockheaded Blubberboy
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PostPosted: 10-10-2018 09:47 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Transient wrote:
No, it was a statement of fact. Look it up.


I can't and neither can you.




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