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Topic Starter Topic: Re: President Trump

The fuct one!
The fuct one!
Joined: 16 Nov 1999
Posts: 34394
PostPosted: 11-02-2020 03:18 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Gramps represents the FloridaMan stereotype loud and proud :olo:




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The fuct one!
The fuct one!
Joined: 16 Nov 1999
Posts: 34394
PostPosted: 11-02-2020 04:23 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Here is Trump Jr. inciting violence
https://twitter.com/aimee_swank/status/ ... 61/video/1

Here is what happened after Don Jr.‘a message (watch the entire video thread progress)

https://twitter.com/ericcervini/status/ ... 21025?s=21


Here is Trump defending the attack on the adversarial Presidential candidates campaign
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/sta ... 50592?s=21

This is America after 4 years of this assholes divisive void of any real leadership.

I don’t get the logic that voting for Trump 2020 will prevent a Trump 2024. Even if the goal was to let him get his 2 terms over with, who’s to say he’s going to leave or not give power to a family member once he finishes replacing our entire government with loyal servants who will serve him over the oath they took to the American people?

Quite a moronic gamble on someone who is a career con-man and known liar with no known credibility.

The mental gymnastics I have to even attempt to rationalize such an idiotic game that Gramps has laid out is just impossible. There is no scenario where this is a smart play.




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Finno-Persian Legend
Finno-Persian Legend
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 16283
PostPosted: 11-02-2020 06:25 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote





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The fuct one!
The fuct one!
Joined: 16 Nov 1999
Posts: 34394
PostPosted: 11-02-2020 06:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Captain Mazda wrote:
I would definitely not call him a decent human being over his years of racist policies or being a sitting vice president for one of the most murderous administrations in US history. In an ideal world he'd be tried for war crimes along with the rest of the oval office.


Fair points. Please allow me to clarify this 'decent human being' comment a bit. I do believe in start contrast to what the Orange hate machine, I feel Joe Biden does care about Americans despite where he stands politically.

By no means am I challenging your statements about his misgivings. My point is, with the two shitty choices, one does at least give the appearance of empathy and care. I'll settle for that as sad as it sounds.

The Orange traitor will burn everything he touches.




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The fuct one!
The fuct one!
Joined: 16 Nov 1999
Posts: 34394
PostPosted: 11-02-2020 06:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I am so not looking forward to the civil unrest this asshole has ignited and supported.




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OUR HERO
OUR HERO
Joined: 23 May 1973
Posts: 3267
PostPosted: 11-02-2020 07:01 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Doombrain wrote:
YourGrandpa wrote:

BTW, I don't think Trump is fine. I think Biden is worse.


Jesus fucking Christ :olo:


I really miss this place sometimes lol



_________________
This line only remake is total rubbish I've ever seen!!! Fuck off!!! --CZghost


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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
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PostPosted: 11-02-2020 07:02 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


raw wrote:
I do believe in start contrast to what the Orange hate machine, I feel Joe Biden does care about Americans despite where he stands politically.




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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
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PostPosted: 11-02-2020 07:02 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Mogul wrote:
I really miss this place sometimes lol

We miss you too! <3




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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
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PostPosted: 11-02-2020 07:07 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I continually see people make claims about Obama/Biden being such warmongers, but how factually true is this really? At the risk of sounding pretty ignorant, weren't it Bush and Bush Sr who started both gulf wars, invaded Afghanistan and generally fucked things up in the Middle-East? I'm aware it's tempting to think Obama should've ended those things, but I'm also realistic enough to understand it's a lot easier to start a war than to end one, especially when you've got most of the senate against you.




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The fuct one!
The fuct one!
Joined: 16 Nov 1999
Posts: 34394
PostPosted: 11-02-2020 07:17 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Obama was notorious for his drone attacks as Mazda has stated. You're right to think that the Bushes are worse IMO as Bush Sr. also had Bill Barr as his fixer to shut down investigations into the Gulf War.




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The fuct one!
The fuct one!
Joined: 16 Nov 1999
Posts: 34394
PostPosted: 11-02-2020 07:17 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Bill Barr has always been a piece of Jabba-The-Hut shit.




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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 43448
PostPosted: 11-02-2020 07:32 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


raw wrote:
Obama was notorious for his drone attacks as Mazda has stated.


Yeah but isn't that just verging on semantics? "Drone attack" sounds very scary because it's such an, for lack of better terms, inpersonal way of doing combat. Like it's worse than sending an F-16 out there dropping a bomb on the same target. I'm not trying to argue that war in general is OK, but when Obama got into his presidency in 2009, he also inherited the Iraq war and America (and allies) were knee deep into shit caused by George W Bush (all on the basis of lies as well). If you find yourself in the middle of a war, shooting shit is an inevitability. And again, one could argue he should've just withdrawn and kept it at that, but I'm not convinced that's as easy to do as it is to say. Just look at Trump who on more than one occasion has talked about a full withdrawal but never actually got that far.

Is there substantial evidence that Obama was ordering drone strikes for some ulterior motive other than enforcing control and maintaining stability of the region? And is there reason to think Obama did worse than Bush Sr? Worse than Clinton? Worse than Bush Jr? Worse than Trump?




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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
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PostPosted: 11-02-2020 07:41 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


More on that:

Number of drone strikes under Trump far exceed those under Obama
https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/ ... -s-numbers

https://theintercept.com/2019/10/02/tru ... lties-war/

Number of deaths in middle east have soared under Trump
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... story.html

Trump has revoked a rule (instated by Obama) forcing american intelligence services to report drone strike civilian casualties
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/30/opin ... obama.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207

So why is Obama the warmongering one infamous for drone strikes?




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Finno-Persian Legend
Finno-Persian Legend
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 16283
PostPosted: 11-02-2020 08:17 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Obama administration buried videos of American soldiers gleefully ripping apart innocent bystanders, paramedics, and journalists in Iraq until Manning and Assange exposed them. Obama signed the decrees to jail them indefinitely and if it weren't for the Ecuadorian embassy, Assange would've ended up at Guantanamo—the illegal CIA torture facility that he promised to close. Now he's being tortured and mistreated at UK's Belmarsh with no due process.

Did you forget about all of that and Snowden's exposure of the NSA's illegal wiretapping too in the Obama years?

Eraser wrote:
Is there substantial evidence that Obama was ordering drone strikes for some ulterior motive other than enforcing control and maintaining stability of the region? And is there reason to think Obama did worse than Bush Sr? Worse than Clinton? Worse than Bush Jr? Worse than Trump?


"Murdering people indiscriminately with bombs from the sky = stability" :alert:

The reason the US has so fully embraced drones is because it further dehumanizes war and killing, as proven by reputable human rights advocates around the world. Hiring psychotic Call of Duty fanboys to drop bombs on radar blips from the comfort of their hometown prevents any of them from ever realizing the deadly consequences of their actions. If they're not on the ground walking through the remains of the women and children they blew up, they're unlikely to reject the military and become anti-war activists.

Quote:
It is impossible to know exactly when Obama recognized the need to get the drone program “in a box” and to introduce “checks and balances,” as he put it, or how he ever imagined the earlier status quo could end in anything but excessive killings.

In any case, Obama chose to allow the CIA, a secretive entity with a long history of unjust killings, to carry out strikes; he chose to keep the very fact of drone killings classified, deliberately invoking the state-secrets privilege in a way guaranteed to stymie oversight, public debate, and legal accountability; and he chose to permit killings outside the greater Afghanistan war zone, in countries with which the U.S. was not at war. Those choices made more unjust killings predictable and inevitable.

That should have been obvious to a former senator and constitutional law expert who knew, among other things, that the CIA had recently run an illegal torture program. The CIA then got carried away with the power to kill in secret in multiple countries.

Obama couldn’t foresee that?

Many others could.

That more checks and balances were needed from day one was a no-brainer. Yet reporting by the New York Times suggests that Obama was directly complicit all along in efforts to obscure the true costs of drone strikes to innocents. As the newspaper put it on May 29, 2012, in a major investigative article:

Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent…


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... es/511454/

If it still has to be explained to you how alike Bush, Obama, Clinton and Trump are, I'm not sure anything will change your mind. It's like you only see him as the guy from the "hope and change" campaign posters.




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Arrr?
Arrr?
Joined: 09 Feb 2001
Posts: 35049
PostPosted: 11-02-2020 09:35 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
Yeah but isn't that just verging on semantics? "Drone attack" sounds very scary because

Obama dropped bombs on innocent civilians and covered it up. He's a war criminal and should be in jail for it. The Bushes committed their own war crimes they should be in jail for, but I want all presidents held equally accountable for their actions.




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The fuct one!
The fuct one!
Joined: 16 Nov 1999
Posts: 34394
PostPosted: 11-02-2020 11:20 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


^^THIS^^

The rule of law should be consistent.




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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
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PostPosted: 11-02-2020 11:25 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Oh I agree, but it seems weird to single out Obama when George W Bush lied to be able to invade a country. Let's not mention those responsible for Vietnam.




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The fuct one!
The fuct one!
Joined: 16 Nov 1999
Posts: 34394
PostPosted: 11-02-2020 11:48 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


There's a lot of American politicians that need to be held accountable. However, I think the people are fed up these days. Lets home for some change.




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Finno-Persian Legend
Finno-Persian Legend
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 16283
PostPosted: 11-02-2020 12:01 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
Oh I agree, but it seems weird to single out Obama when George W Bush lied to be able to invade a country. Let's not mention those responsible for Vietnam.


You don't seem to understand. Obama isn't being singled out, I am trying to point out his policies and actions have been similar to Trump in many ways. The reason this distinction has to be made is because post-Trump, Obama has been completely whitewashed as this brilliant, kind, incredible democratic bastion of hope and enlightenment who brought peace and joy to America and the world. Even the people who once called out Bush are now saying "hey he wasn't so bad, he made some mistakes but he did it all for good reasons with a true heart." Out of the three, Obama is the best salesperson the US military-industrial has because he's intelligent, well-spoken, and charismatic.

Why does this matter? Because people who live in the spin cycle of mainstream news believe Trump should be held accountable for his crimes (just the financial and political ones since killing non-Americans is fine) while Obama, and now Bush, get a free pass. That's the ignorant attitude that puts more nepotist neolibs and far-right shitheads in power.




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Just another Earthling
Just another Earthling
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 12142
PostPosted: 11-02-2020 12:04 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Mogul wrote:
I really miss this place sometimes lol


WB Mogul :D

Whiskey 7 wrote:
seremtan wrote:
.......... everyone's mad as hell all of a sudden

Politics :smirk:


Good luck USA :smirk:



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Physicist of Q3W


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Etile
Etile
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: 11-02-2020 01:16 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


write in: Kanye and Louis CK :olo:




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The fuct one!
The fuct one!
Joined: 16 Nov 1999
Posts: 34394
PostPosted: 11-02-2020 01:41 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I was filling in my ballot and was rudely interrupted by a gentleman who said, “I'mma let you finish, but Beyoncé had one of the best videos of all time! One of the best videos of all time!”




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Finno-Persian Legend
Finno-Persian Legend
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PostPosted: 11-02-2020 02:13 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


If Oprah's not running, who will be my moral compass? :(




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The fuct one!
The fuct one!
Joined: 16 Nov 1999
Posts: 34394
PostPosted: 11-02-2020 02:19 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I blame Ross Perot.




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Canadian Shaft
Canadian Shaft
Joined: 01 Mar 2001
Posts: 19891
PostPosted: 11-02-2020 04:47 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


A coal lobbyist runs the EPA

An oil lobbyist runs the DOI

A pharma exec runs HHS

A Raytheon lobbyist runs DoD

A Verizon lawyer runs FCC

A banking exec runs Treasury

A shipping heiress runs DOT

A private equity kingpin runs Commerce

An unqualified billionaire runs DoED


BUT...

Biden is a lifelong politician so Trump is better (and somehow different duuurrrrrrrppppp).




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Unquantifiable Abstract
Unquantifiable Abstract
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 51860
PostPosted: 11-03-2020 12:06 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Today is the day, folks




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Arrr?
Arrr?
Joined: 09 Feb 2001
Posts: 35049
PostPosted: 11-03-2020 01:13 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Here's hoping for a blowout.




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The fuct one!
The fuct one!
Joined: 16 Nov 1999
Posts: 34394
PostPosted: 11-03-2020 03:00 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


VOTE OUT FASCISM AND AUTOCRACY!




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Lead Pipe Mafia
Lead Pipe Mafia
Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 5564
PostPosted: 11-03-2020 04:11 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Imagine if you could strip party affiliations and just look at the state of who you're voting for in an election. No conservative, no democratic bullshit, just two people.

You have an ex vice president, seems creepy around women but could just be old person creepy. Has otherwise been a decent public servant in his tenure.

The other guy is a narcissist by definition, has several sexual assault allegations, has settled sexual assault allegations in the past, cheated on his wife while she was pregnant with porn stars. Used money donated to him for his campaign to pay off said prostitutes. Most of his senior campaign staff is now in jail or has been jailed for breaking laws. Has many failed businesses, has ties with Russian mobsters, provably lies pretty much every day. Appears to fly off the handle constantly, doesn't seem qualified and has many conflicts of interest among other ethical dilemmas. Oh he's also been given a chance at the job and was impeached. Used to be friends with Jeffrey Epstein.

The funny part is if you flip the democrat and the conservative here there's no way a conservative would vote for Trump. People that vote for Trump are literally stupid. I mean that in the full definition of the word. Aside from the fact that by all the evidence out there that he's planning a coup voting for him is honestly the dumbest thing you could do. The guy who still believes the central park 5 are guilty, to this day, despite DNA evidence clearing their names. A racist who rails against the ability for the other party to even vote. Yeah you've got to be fucking stupid.




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Canadian Shaft
Canadian Shaft
Joined: 01 Mar 2001
Posts: 19891
PostPosted: 11-03-2020 05:39 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Κracus wrote:
several sexual assault allegations,


not to quibble but 26 is more than several




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Etile
Etile
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 34541
PostPosted: 11-03-2020 05:56 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Κracus wrote:
doesn't seem qualified


not to quibble but he isn't even qualified to shovel shit




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The Afflicted
The Afflicted
Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 674
PostPosted: 11-03-2020 05:56 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Captain Mazda wrote:
The reason the US has so fully embraced drones is because it further dehumanizes war and killing, as proven by reputable human rights advocates around the world. Hiring psychotic Call of Duty fanboys to drop bombs on radar blips from the comfort of their hometown prevents any of them from ever realizing the deadly consequences of their actions. If they're not on the ground walking through the remains of the women and children they blew up, they're unlikely to reject the military and become anti-war activists.


Very well said :up:
Further, we as human beings have to fight against the IMC's intent to establish AI-controlled drones which one day might be used at sites of conflict to independently pull the trigger on targets as the next stage in warfare.




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Mew Legs!
Mew Legs!
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 1052
PostPosted: 11-03-2020 06:39 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


A lot of downtown Chicago boarded up yesterday in preparation.. the trains this morning coming downtown were extra empty. Looks like most employers have the sense to let their folks work from home when needed.




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Lead Pipe Mafia
Lead Pipe Mafia
Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 5564
PostPosted: 11-03-2020 06:40 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Pretty much everything spaz is talking about is institutional issues that span beyond individual candidates. Those are problems that need to be addressed and don't necessarily apply to specific individuals. I'm not saying it's not Barak's fault but at the same time he's not exactly the only reason those drone attacks happened. The problem might even be bigger than something the US government as a whole can tackle to solve as it's more of a global issue.




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The Afflicted
The Afflicted
Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 674
PostPosted: 11-03-2020 07:19 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


You are very right and the issue also is derailing this thread. I might start a new one about it.




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