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PostPosted: 07-20-2016 01:20 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Each game tonight had 1-2 Anas, a D Va, a McCree and a Zenyatta on each team. It should balance back out over the next few days, but it became tiresome after the second game...



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PostPosted: 07-20-2016 02:14 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Just play competitive for a while. 1 hero limit is active now, so first to lock in Ana wins :D

edit: Holy shit McCree is so good in this patch.
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PostPosted: 07-20-2016 12:18 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


U4EA wrote:
edit: Holy shit McCree is so good in this patch.



Ooooohhhhhhhh - must try!
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PostPosted: 07-20-2016 02:09 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Sad day for Pharah. McCree is a super hard counter, better than Soldier 76 now.



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PostPosted: 07-20-2016 05:07 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


What the hell? Ana's out already? Dva improvements and comp mode changes?
I knew I should have logged in last night.
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PostPosted: 07-22-2016 10:22 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hehe :D
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PostPosted: 07-26-2016 01:00 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Post Ana Patch Meta Analysis in the pro tournament scene: http://www.overwatchly.com/overwatch/po ... a-analysis

TL;DR
o McCree is overpowered.
o Pharah is completely gone [not because of changes to her, but because new McCree and Zenyatta are so deadly against her].
o Mercy is also gone [again, less because of changes to her res, and more because of how good new Zenyatta is; you simply cannot afford to be running Mercy, especially if the other team has Zenyatta; between Discord Orb and new McCree people just die too fast to be able to charge a 30% slower res].
o Soldier nerf was pretty significant [new McCree also edges him out by quite a lot].
o D.Va is great! Winky face!
o Genji is seeing a lot of play now.
o Ana isn't seeing any play.

On the plus, side:

McCree is being tweaked internally at Blizzard. Which means we can expect some balance changes on PTR at some stage.

Ana is also being looked at for buffs given she's a bit weak at this point.

edit: Jesus, what the fuck. Just as I'm catching up with news this morning, apparently a new PC patch is already deployed.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatc ... 0747615932

Code:
Ana
o Biotic Rifle
  o Rate of fire increased by 20%
  o Magazine size increased from 8 to 10

Developer Comments: While Ana has been very well received, she was showing to be a little bit weaker overall. In addition to helping her feel better to play, these changes should also increase her healing and damage output.

McCree
o Peacemaker
  o Primary Fire
    o Damage falloff range decreased by 10 meters
      o Damage falloff amount is unchanged
      o As a result, even with this change, McCree’s effective range is still higher than it was at launch
  o Alternate Fire
    o Rate of fire increased by 15%
o Flashbang
  o Recovery time (i.e. the amount of time before McCree can fire again) decreased from 0.5 seconds to 0.35 seconds

Developer Comments: McCree’s latest range increase helped him quite a bit, but it was a bit too much in the right hands. This change weakens his long range damage somewhat, but still keeps it stronger than it has been in the recent past. The other changes combine to allow him to land more alternate fire shots on targets that he has hit with Flashbang.
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PostPosted: 07-26-2016 01:16 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I heard DVa is way OP now - havent had a chance to play myself.
Also, 3 Anas doing endless sleepdarts will get you kicked off the server due to inactivity :olo:
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PostPosted: 07-26-2016 02:20 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The Ana thing is funny, but nearly impossible to pull off in quick play without a ton of effort. D Va is a bit OP. Her barrier extends so far that you can shield allies in front of you or to the side from Junkrat spam or anything else. Quick taps of right-click are all it takes.



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PostPosted: 07-26-2016 07:54 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ana is fun to play. Interested to play her tonight to try out the patched changes.
Team always going and fucking up my sleep dart and then blaming me like it's my fault the target isn't still asleep.
The grenade is fun. Ult is kind of annoying; go to ult a genji or rein and motherfucking zenyatta drops off a ledge right in front of you as you hit it and he just stands there like a sparkling moron.
Also frustrating when there's an enemy with like 10 health left you go to snipe and some fat asshole on your team jumps in front of your scope as soon as you click fire....
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PostPosted: 07-26-2016 07:56 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ana is best played in a well-coordinated team. I find it ironic that she's getting no love in the tournament scene.



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PostPosted: 07-27-2016 02:11 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Probably a factor of power level and practice. I read that teams have been scrimming her, but not often. She's another case where Zenyatta edged her out previously. Lucio is absolutely core due to amped speed boost and sound barrier for pushes, so the other support slot is up for grabs. Zenyatta with discord orb and his high damage output is a better pick. With her buffs though she'll stand a better chance. Some are also predicting a 3 support meta with Lucio, Zenyatta, and Ana.
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PostPosted: 07-27-2016 03:30 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I've been picking up Lucio a lot lately and playing my "Super annoying Lucio" game. Basically I only play him on escort missions and make my way to the objective and jump around it like a madman trying to string together jumps off walls and the objective while half hazardly firing in the general direction of the enemy.

The result is a tanky healer that is super difficult to kill. I've sat there jumping around the objective with 5 members of the opposite team trying but failing to kill me. It's pretty hilarious.

The only way to get me off it is to use an ult like Reinhardts or Soldier 76's. Mei can be a problem for this strategy too as she slows me down enough to allow others to hit me, or outright freeze me.
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PostPosted: 07-27-2016 10:12 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


U4EA wrote:
Probably a factor of power level and practice. I read that teams have been scrimming her, but not often. She's another case where Zenyatta edged her out previously. Lucio is absolutely core due to amped speed boost and sound barrier for pushes, so the other support slot is up for grabs. Zenyatta with discord orb and his high damage output is a better pick. With her buffs though she'll stand a better chance. Some are also predicting a 3 support meta with Lucio, Zenyatta, and Ana.

No rezzes and no teleporters makes that strategy vulnerable to burst damage. Although since the last 2 patches I've seen a lot of 2-healer combos without Mercy. I still like Mercy. :tear:



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PostPosted: 07-27-2016 03:29 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


All this doesn't matter much. On lower unorganized tiers. Just play the character u want.
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PostPosted: 07-28-2016 01:34 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


MKJ wrote:
I heard DVa is way OP now - havent had a chance to play myself.
Also, 3 Anas doing endless sleepdarts will get you kicked off the server due to inactivity :olo:


Played against a good Dva player yesterday and they dominated the game in a big way
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PostPosted: 07-28-2016 03:23 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I play DVA when I play as tank and I usually outdamage everyone, however that was still the case before the patch.
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PostPosted: 07-28-2016 02:28 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Fuck me.

Best multiplayer game since Quake 3. Astoundingly good.
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PostPosted: 07-29-2016 03:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Orb of Discord is going to get nerfed. It just has to be, there's no way they can leave it at its current level. I suspect they'll take it down to 30% instead of it's current 50%. It's too damn powerful, a discorded tank falls in a fraction of a second with even just 2-3 people hitting them.
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PostPosted: 07-29-2016 03:32 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yup, I usually play Zen when I play healer for that reason, so badass but he is pretty squishy.
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PostPosted: 07-29-2016 03:40 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Well he's no squishier than the other healers. He's got 200 hp now, 150 of which is a recharging shield even. His main drawback is lack of mobility, which is why I love having the rare Lucio teammate.
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PostPosted: 07-29-2016 08:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


i hate all this meta BS ... kinda keeps me from choosing my favorite players without feeling guilty... is it even feasible to balance so many characters at some point, or am i being naive and there will always be those favorable few?

for example McCree feels so wrong for me... I hate everything about his mechanics. I refuse to play him based on meta.

also, just how favorable are they, if you're not utilizing them at the top level?

I'm hoping that these things dont matter much around 50 rank, and it's only an issue on god like tiers.
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PostPosted: 07-29-2016 09:31 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Tsakali wrote:

I'm hoping that these things dont matter much around 50 rank, and it's only an issue on god like tiers.

I'm inclined to think this is the case, although that is just speculation on my end. I do know, however that with for example Hearthstone, meta isn't nearly as important in the lower and mid level ranks. People tend to follow the meta in mid level ranks, but often aren't skilled enough to truly out-meta their opponent. I belong to that relatively unskilled group of HS players as well, mind, but I usually do end up among the top 25% of players at the end of a season.
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PostPosted: 07-29-2016 09:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Give it time. Once there are more heroes to choose from, it will be easier and easier to counter picks and things will start to even out. Plus Blizzard is actively balancing nonstop to get things right. They seem to be on top of things for the most part. :up:



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PostPosted: 07-29-2016 10:34 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


i wouldn't say on top of things, but they are definitely not neglecting it.

I mean when you see meta graphs like this where barely half of the available characters are really being used, there's something wrong.





But then again I don't know what's acceptable in this type of multi-hero game, since it's my first one of it's kind. Is this level of unintended favoritism normal and sustainable in other games?
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PostPosted: 07-29-2016 02:07 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


This style of game is new to me too, but that graph is from a 2-day period of time right after a major patch, so I don't know how representative it really is in the long run. It would be interesting to see what the graph looked like over the entire month, or even August. And I'm less interested in what the pros are doing than I am about the average player.



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PostPosted: 07-29-2016 04:53 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


yeah but previous charts have the same feel. but you're right, and just like I argued earlier, this is probably more of a concern for high end players that are squeezing every little bit of mechanics out of the character they choose. Less optimal gameplay in the lower tiers might not notice the meta limitations as much, since they are not really utilizing them at that level.
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PostPosted: 07-30-2016 10:45 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Typical of a game with a meta-game. They will favor a bunch of heroes, then nerf them so others become popular just to change up the meta, etc.



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PostPosted: 07-30-2016 11:02 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The problem is mainly with how the popular characters end up making some characters unpopular in response. Pharah can be killed even quicker than before thanks to McCree's range buff and Zenyatta's faster Discord Orb speed. Fewer people play her now. With the addition of Ana and the buff to Zenyatta, I've seen way more 2-healer team comps and Mercy has become much less popular.

If Blizzard's goal is to even things out so that nobody is particularly neglected, I'm cool with that. So long as it doesn't turn into an endless nerf- and buff-fest. I think it's only this chaotic right now with the constant patching because the game's still new and kinks are getting worked out. I'm curious to see what the state of the game is like once Season 2 gets going.



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PostPosted: 07-30-2016 11:06 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


This is what all MOBA games are like. By moving away from FPS skills and towards rock-paper-scissors mechanics, it's unavoidable. Yes, it will be an endless nerf and buff-fest. See DOTA 2 after 6 years.



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PostPosted: 07-31-2016 12:26 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That doesn't seem sustainable.



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PostPosted: 07-31-2016 01:49 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


A less cynical way to look at it is that the game designers strive for perfect balance, but with a large roster of completely unique heroes with distinct abilities, this is virtually impossible. They buff and nerf heroes to bring them inline with each other for the purpose of game balance, not to favour one over another, or to arbitrarily shake up the meta. Sometimes the outcome of these balance changes more or less match their intention, and other times unintended knock on effects can have unforeseen implications on other heroes.
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PostPosted: 07-31-2016 02:05 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


With respect to MOBAs i definitely think an aspect of the updates is to shake up the meta in order to keep people interested and the game more dynamic. It certainly makes annual tournaments more enjoyable if they're different every year.



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PostPosted: 07-31-2016 03:08 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


phantasmagoria wrote:
With respect to MOBAs i definitely think an aspect of the updates is to shake up the meta in order to keep people interested and the game more dynamic. It certainly makes annual tournaments more enjoyable if they're different every year.

Isn't this what new heroes are for?
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