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Your Other Daddy
Your Other Daddy
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PostPosted: 12-04-2017 10:46 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


will watch l8r



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Just another Earthling
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PostPosted: 12-04-2017 11:58 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


SoM wrote:
will watch l8r

I plan to too :)



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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 12-04-2017 02:12 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Added to my queue. :up:



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Your Other Daddy
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PostPosted: 12-04-2017 03:33 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


already 30min in, it's bloody excellent

and watching this high is even better :up:



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Your Other Daddy
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PostPosted: 12-04-2017 04:31 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


awesome watch



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Arrr?
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PostPosted: 12-04-2017 04:56 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


SoM wrote:
and watching this high is even better :up:

Will keep this in mind. :up: :up:



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Etile
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PostPosted: 12-30-2017 08:06 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


that's brilliant!

also, Ripley ftw :up:




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Your Other Daddy
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PostPosted: 12-30-2017 08:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


:) :up:



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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 12-30-2017 10:07 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I miss films :(



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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 12-31-2017 12:51 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


So I guess she's just the excuse female so the director can say "look, we have a female lead!"




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Etile
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PostPosted: 12-31-2017 02:52 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


but as the guy in the video points out, we had strong female leads back in the 1980s, only they were the real deal not something hastily constructed in a campus lab by gender studies professors out of tears, vaginas and Lancome




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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 12-31-2017 05:42 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yeah but back then there wasn't as strong an incentive to "prove" that you're giving actresses a chance. It wasn't a social selling point as it is now, so Ripley was written and cast for very different reasons than this Jurassic World character.




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The Afflicted
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PostPosted: 01-01-2018 04:57 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It is an excellent video that goes ways beyond showing how to tell a perfect narrative.
Hill's whole channel is an excellent watch :up: . Thanks Memphis.

TIL: The bad T is always on the left side. "Fuck you" from a leftie.
And the pendulum, swinging light-thing. Yep, that was something that I really was not consciously aware of.




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Aneurysm
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PostPosted: 01-01-2018 10:37 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Has Cameron confirmed that he followed this formula? Seems like a stretch when he was picking apart every minute detail of each scene. This also reminded me how much I disliked Linda Hamilton in Terminator.

The second video was garbage.
Don't judge that red haired lady for not calling back the team quick enough. The whole purpose of that team WAS to capture rogue dinos and those deaths were seconds apart. She was also kept in the dark by higher ups about the dinos super powers. Also iirc, they closed down the park shortly after that scene but there was a shitload of people and things were happening fast.

He also left out the part where she spent most of the movie out of her comfort zone courageously saving those two kids with starlord.

The plot was weak for sure but he is shitting on it for the wrong reasons.




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Aneurysm
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PostPosted: 01-01-2018 01:08 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


#1 I wouldn’t call a pg-13 action/ horror a “family movie”
#2 I watched the vid and you just repeated all of his arguments for no reason.Thats his definition of what films should be and He cherry picked some shit to fit his argument
#3 the plot was dumb as hell but it’s obvious you haven’t even seen it




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Aneurysm
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PostPosted: 01-01-2018 01:38 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Memphis wrote:
Claire has no redeeming character arc where she realises her mistakes and makes up for it


Pretty sure she does, he just conveniently leaves that part out of his talk. Also that innocent assistant was the one who neglected and lost her nephews in the first place. Also two people who we're higher up than Claire were killed in horrible ways for their choices. He leaves that out. I would argue she is just like Goreman minus the death at the end.




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Just another Earthling
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PostPosted: 01-01-2018 02:27 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thank you Memphis :up: Both very interesting and enlightening and well worth the watch for sure. Excellent :up:



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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-01-2018 07:54 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


shaft wrote:
Memphis wrote:
Claire has no redeeming character arc where she realises her mistakes and makes up for it


Pretty sure she does, he just conveniently leaves that part out of his talk. Also that innocent assistant was the one who neglected and lost her nephews in the first place. Also two people who we're higher up than Claire were killed in horrible ways for their choices. He leaves that out. I would argue she is just like Goreman minus the death at the end.


Rly ?, my memory is vague so please forgive but

-The assistant made a mistake and died in the process of trying to fix it (finding the kids).
- The dude that died in the chopper was a decent dude that died horribly also trying to fix his mistake ?.
- I think the other dude you are talking about is Starlords army 'mate' with the Raptors ?, which is probaly closest to Nedry / Burke (backstabbing pricks doing it for coin and business). He was probably one of the weakest main characters in the story n all.

Clare didn't really have an arc, unless you wanna go she learned to listen road. She was just a vehicle to get Starlord doing things.



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Aneurysm
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PostPosted: 01-01-2018 11:27 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
Rly ?, my memory is vague so please forgive but

-The assistant made a mistake and died in the process of trying to fix it (finding the kids).
- The dude that died in the chopper was a decent dude that died horribly also trying to fix his mistake ?.
- I think the other dude you are talking about is Starlords army 'mate' with the Raptors ?, which is probaly closest to Nedry / Burke (backstabbing pricks doing it for coin and business). He was probably one of the weakest main characters in the story n all.

Clare didn't really have an arc, unless you wanna go she learned to listen road. She was just a vehicle to get Starlord doing things.



This is how I remember it. The dude in the chopper was the top guy who replaced Hammond and was pushing for more lethal crossbred dino to boost park attendance. Starlords army mate who wanted killing machines got his not caring about anyone till the end.

Everyone was trying to contain the mess in the movie, it was the intention behind it that mattered. Some people were trying to contain to save people, some just concerned about money and the company.

Claire had a pretty weak arc from distant aunt who was all company to family matters the most sort of thing. I'm not saying it was great but certainly not the monster portrayed in that vid and you certainly cant blame every death in the movie on her. Why not blame her assistants death on the guy who didn't hit the button in time to close the gate?
Innocent people died (happens all the time in movies), but I never really thought anyone was to blame but the dicks at the top who bred the super dino. Everything else was mistakes while trying to do the right thing.

The guy took issue with the director trying to hype up the female lead with the word "feminist" and then shit all over it with select edits.




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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 01-01-2018 11:47 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Maybe that last bit is exactly what irked the guy in the video. If the director/producer/whoever hadn't tried to label it as feminist then maybe it wouldn't be as big an issue.




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Aneurysm
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PostPosted: 01-01-2018 11:58 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That and he felt Claire should be the same as Ripley just because there were borrowed scenes.




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Shambolic
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PostPosted: 01-02-2018 02:18 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
Maybe that last bit is exactly what irked the guy in the video. If the director/producer/whoever hadn't tried to label it as feminist then maybe it wouldn't be as big an issue.


That's the same kind of issue I had with 28 Days Later when I first saw it. My mate and I would hire a movie or two on a weekend and watch it (when that was still a thing). So we'd regularly watch the DVD extras too.
We watched 28 Days Later and thoroughly enjoyed it for being a good modern zombie flick.
Then we watched the extras where Alex Garland tried to claim it was some artsy commentary on society. He couldn't just come out and say "yeah, we made a fun zombie movie!"; he was intent on ascribing the film with more intellectual worth than it was due.
And that tarnished my initial fondness for the movie.




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-02-2018 05:53 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


shaft wrote:
losCHUNK wrote:
Rly ?, my memory is vague so please forgive but

-The assistant made a mistake and died in the process of trying to fix it (finding the kids).
- The dude that died in the chopper was a decent dude that died horribly also trying to fix his mistake ?.
- I think the other dude you are talking about is Starlords army 'mate' with the Raptors ?, which is probaly closest to Nedry / Burke (backstabbing pricks doing it for coin and business). He was probably one of the weakest main characters in the story n all.

Clare didn't really have an arc, unless you wanna go she learned to listen road. She was just a vehicle to get Starlord doing things.



This is how I remember it. The dude in the chopper was the top guy who replaced Hammond and was pushing for more lethal crossbred dino to boost park attendance. Starlords army mate who wanted killing machines got his not caring about anyone till the end.

Everyone was trying to contain the mess in the movie, it was the intention behind it that mattered. Some people were trying to contain to save people, some just concerned about money and the company.

Claire had a pretty weak arc from distant aunt who was all company to family matters the most sort of thing. I'm not saying it was great but certainly not the monster portrayed in that vid and you certainly cant blame every death in the movie on her. Why not blame her assistants death on the guy who didn't hit the button in time to close the gate?
Innocent people died (happens all the time in movies), but I never really thought anyone was to blame but the dicks at the top who bred the super dino. Everything else was mistakes while trying to do the right thing.

The guy took issue with the director trying to hype up the female lead with the word "feminist" and then shit all over it with select edits.


Gotcha, I actually associated Claire with the Hammond character more than anything who started out as a corporate whore realising her mistake when the hybrid killed the team, thing is that didn't really convey to me cos like you said, weak arc. Hammond conveyed remorse at what he did where as Claire was just hanging onto Starlords tale.

I think Erasure got it right with reguards to the video, where she was hyped up as a strong female lead. I don't think he wanted her to be like Ripley, I think he was just using Ripley as an example of a strong female lead which she wasn't. I took it as how Ripley controlled a situation VS Claire who until the last scene kept losing the control. She actually had the stereotypical 'women driver' syndrome.



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Last edited by losCHUNK on 01-02-2018 05:58 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-02-2018 06:18 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Wouldn't go that far, Starlord was the main protagonist who shadowed Sam Neal quite well. He was supposed to be the character you connect with where he's always pointing at the mistakes by everyone. He was all about the respect for nature n stuff, his character fell short by what was going on around him though with trained Raptors, silly henchmen n shite. I can't actually remember his character development, but all Sam Neals was appreciating annoying kids.



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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-02-2018 06:22 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yea none of us are buying that. Wouldn't be the 1st time a director tried hyping something that wasn't after the film was released (I'm looking at you Ridley Scott).



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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-02-2018 08:56 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Another important note imo is that all of Ripleys decisions were driven by emotion, like a lot of flicks back in the day. I think a lot of blockbusters these days are just having people doing things for the sake of doing them, I think the Star Trek reboots are the most obvious examples of this but Jurassic World too.



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Aneurysm
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PostPosted: 01-02-2018 09:32 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Memphis wrote:
So, what was it?


You never saw the movie and and it was just Hill's tirade against what you thought was some feminist/SJW protagonist that got your tiny trump hard. :up:




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Aneurysm
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PostPosted: 01-02-2018 09:45 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
Gotcha, I actually associated Claire with the Hammond character more than anything who started out as a corporate whore realising her mistake when the hybrid killed the team, thing is that didn't really convey to me cos like you said, weak arc. Hammond conveyed remorse at what he did where as Claire was just hanging onto Starlords tale.

I think Erasure got it right with reguards to the video, where she was hyped up as a strong female lead. I don't think he wanted her to be like Ripley, I think he was just using Ripley as an example of a strong female lead which she wasn't. I took it as how Ripley controlled a situation VS Claire who until the last scene kept losing the control. She actually had the stereotypical 'women driver' syndrome.



It's worth reading the comments on the video by people who have seen it more recently.

I forgot about the moment she opens the t-rex cage and leads it to the super dino.




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Aneurysm
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PostPosted: 01-02-2018 09:53 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Memphis wrote:
Nice spin, Torvill.

It's you who got your frillies in a twist 'cos you figured he was bashing feminism.

You're sounding a wee bit mad, in claiming to know what films people have or have not seen. Your soy gone off?


awww....don't be angry because you've been found out. :dts:




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Aneurysm
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PostPosted: 01-02-2018 10:06 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Memphis wrote:
shaft wrote:
I forgot about the penultimate moment in the movie i'm blindly defending


-shaft 2018


I've seen the movie, twice. Your boy Hill conveniently forgot about the "penultimate moment" in his vid also. I guess that didn't fit his narrative.




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-02-2018 07:43 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


shaft wrote:
losCHUNK wrote:
Gotcha, I actually associated Claire with the Hammond character more than anything who started out as a corporate whore realising her mistake when the hybrid killed the team, thing is that didn't really convey to me cos like you said, weak arc. Hammond conveyed remorse at what he did where as Claire was just hanging onto Starlords tale.

I think Erasure got it right with reguards to the video, where she was hyped up as a strong female lead. I don't think he wanted her to be like Ripley, I think he was just using Ripley as an example of a strong female lead which she wasn't. I took it as how Ripley controlled a situation VS Claire who until the last scene kept losing the control. She actually had the stereotypical 'women driver' syndrome.



It's worth reading the comments on the video by people who have seen it more recently.

I forgot about the moment she opens the t-rex cage and leads it to the super dino.


Was actually gonna watch the movie again but then I remembered that I couldn't be arsed, I remembered the ending chase though. Is why I said she actually came across as the stereotypical 'women driver' or damsel in distress who bettered themself (in the last scene), only that didn't really convey to me. Point is though that if she was touted as a strong female lead then they either fucked up or are lying. If theyre following the SJW/feminist road they actually did the reverse cos if that was her arc then she was essentially bettered through her interactions with a man.



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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-02-2018 08:05 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


shaft wrote:
Has Cameron confirmed that he followed this formula? Seems like a stretch when he was picking apart every minute detail of each scene. This also reminded me how much I disliked Linda Hamilton in Terminator.


Going back to this, in his video of the T2 deleted scene with the swinging lights I couldn't help but think of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lzxaON ... &t=1h9m57s (had to dig it up)

Was a good way to add tension to an otherwise dull scene.

Speaking about Linda Hamilton n all, who I also think sucked, she's meant to be returning for the next Terminator installment. Tim Miller (Deadpool) is said to be directing.

And whilst I'm here, Memph - go watch the new Bladerunner, and Stranger Things.



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Aneurysm
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PostPosted: 01-02-2018 11:48 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


losCHUNK wrote:
Was actually gonna watch the movie again but then I remembered that I couldn't be arsed, I remembered the ending chase though. Is why I said she actually came across as the stereotypical 'women driver' or damsel in distress who bettered themself (in the last scene), only that didn't really convey to me. Point is though that if she was touted as a strong female lead then they either fucked up or are lying. If theyre following the SJW/feminist road they actually did the reverse cos if that was her arc then she was essentially bettered through her interactions with a man.


I didn't even consider her to be the main protagonist. Starlord was the big name in all the marketing. It might be different if I re-watched and looked for it. One doesn't go into a summer dino horror movie looking for these things.

tbh I only watched Hills clip because seremtan said it was brilliant, and that was my initial reaction also. But then started nagging me as to how I could've watched it multiple times and never felt the same way about her character. Then I started remembering things about the movie and that shit wasn't holding up. I came back to Hills video with a more critical eye and it was easy to see the quote (who i learned was the director) set him off. It wasn't a family movie, he left out all the scenes were she put herself in peril, and he remade the dialog at the end to mean that Claire was asking for advice when anyone can see she was asking about their new relationship.
I don't think her character was weak at all, just flawed.


Lets find out everything wrong with the rest of the Jurassic films next. Was the lawyers death in the first film justified by him being scared and leaving the kids or just another gratuitous display of dino carnage like the assistants death?




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Truffle Shuffle
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PostPosted: 01-03-2018 06:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I just seen it as a review, compare and contrast thing. I mean Memph said it but if you remove gender it was basically a lecture about strong vs weak protagonists. I agree she wasn't the lead though and was surprised to hear she was marketed that way by the director, which is something that Hill probably wanted to draw objection to.

It looks like he has done a talk on the original too



Was gonna check it out when I got 30 mins



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PostPosted: 01-03-2018 08:06 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Aye it was the punishment for cowardice, basically. It set up nicely what happens if you lose control and make a mistake in 'this world'. It was literally someone trying to hide in the toilet and wait for it all to go away, which is something that the audience might consider. It's no coincidence that this was set up as soon as shit hit the fan n all.

"One doesn't go into a summer dino movie thinking..."

Is kind of the problem n all imo, I'm guilty of it and feel the same way, I liked Pacific Rim :ninja: but we're still throwing our money into studio pockets for what is essentially disaster porn. Independence Day was a watershed moment for movies imo, it created the under 18 summer blockbuster. From that point on movies got dumber, or I've become old and jaded :). I'd give a wall of text with compare and contrast but that's my overall opinion on the state of cinema atm and why TV is now actually becoming the place for good story telling and character development.



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