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Topic Starter Topic: Re: Dystopian America
Eraser
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PostPosted: 06-11-2020 01:26 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yes, that sounds about right
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 06-11-2020 01:27 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote
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Don Carlos
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PostPosted: 06-11-2020 02:04 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Fuck me
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Transient
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PostPosted: 06-11-2020 03:49 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yeah, Matt, and abolishing the police goes a step further. The institution began as slave catchers back in the 1700s. The cornerstone of their foundation was built on racism, and it's survived all this time.
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YourGrandpa
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PostPosted: 06-11-2020 04:14 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Since racism was the way police came about 300+ years ago, are you saying all of today's LOEs are racist? It's almost like you're suggesting that becoming a LEO turns you into a Racist. After all it was the "cornerstone of their foundation", "and it's survived all this time".

You need to turn off the TV for awhile.
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Transient
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PostPosted: 06-11-2020 04:36 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The institution is racist, not necessarily the individuals. It attracts racists to enlist and conditions members to be racist, however. It's not always overt, there's a lot of subconscious racism.
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Captain Mazda
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PostPosted: 06-11-2020 05:12 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Gwamps thinks cops are reading this thread right now and will remember the name Brian Elam white-knighting for them next time they see him riding 5 miles below the limit. Not because he's a law-abiding citizen and champion bootlicker, but because his two-wheeled elephant simply can't go any faster.
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YourGrandpa
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PostPosted: 06-11-2020 05:17 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Transient wrote:
The institution is racist, not necessarily the individuals. It attracts racists to enlist and conditions members to be racist, however. It's not always overt, there's a lot of subconscious racism.


Are the black and Hispanic officers being converted into self hating racists or are they being specially trained to hate other races besides their own to create very specific racially charged squads that can be released to brutally assault various groups of people depending on their race?
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obsidian
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PostPosted: 06-11-2020 05:35 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Good cops are constantly being pressured to keep quiet about the infractions of bad cops. If they won't keep quiet, they'll just get the good cops to quit or get fired.

Just kneeling in solidarity with protestors brings consequences:
Posted this one earlier today, officer slapped with insubordination.
And look, another article in the same day, kneeling officers kicked out of police union.

All the police brutality problems, all the cops shooting and attacking unarmed protestors and news crews, all the black people getting stopped on a daily basis by police for mundane things... these aren't a result of a "few bad apples", this is a very systemic problem that exists throughout America.



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Transient
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PostPosted: 06-11-2020 08:17 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


YourGrandpa wrote:
Transient wrote:
The institution is racist, not necessarily the individuals. It attracts racists to enlist and conditions members to be racist, however. It's not always overt, there's a lot of subconscious racism.


Are the black and Hispanic officers being converted into self hating racists or are they being specially trained to hate other races besides their own to create very specific racially charged squads that can be released to brutally assault various groups of people depending on their race?

Black and Hispanic officers are entirely susceptible to racism, you don't have to be white to be racist. Your reductive logic and binary world view is exactly the kind of brainless reasoning that's kept institutional racism from being addressed in any meaningful way. But I'm sure you thought Obama was actually pretty articulate, didn't you?
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 06-11-2020 09:14 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
Good cops are constantly being pressured to keep quiet about the infractions of bad cops. If they won't keep quiet, they'll just get the good cops to quit or get fired.

Another telling example of a few years back

Quote:
Former Officer Cariol Horne lost her job and was charged with obstruction after she intervened while a fellow officer punched and choked an arrested man


https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qvaq ... -a-suspect
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YourGrandpa
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PostPosted: 06-12-2020 03:51 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Transient wrote:
Black and Hispanic officers are entirely susceptible to racism, you don't have to be white to be racist. Your reductive logic and binary world view is exactly the kind of brainless reasoning that's kept institutional racism from being addressed in any meaningful way. But I'm sure you thought Obama was actually pretty articulate, didn't you?


Of course, anyone can be racist. But if all officers are racist because they work for a 300+ year old racist institution, who exactly are the black and Hispanic officers being racist toward? Are black officers being selectively racist towards whites and Hispanics, and Hispanic offices selectively racist towards blacks and whites, all the while working side by side with their racist counterparts? Sounds like a very contentious work environment or a completely ridiculous notion. I'm sure you being an idiot will preclude you from logical deduction.
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 06-12-2020 04:00 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


YourGrandpa wrote:
Transient wrote:
Black and Hispanic officers are entirely susceptible to racism, you don't have to be white to be racist. Your reductive logic and binary world view is exactly the kind of brainless reasoning that's kept institutional racism from being addressed in any meaningful way. But I'm sure you thought Obama was actually pretty articulate, didn't you?


Of course, anyone can be racist. But if all officers are racist because they work for a 300+ year old racist institution, who exactly are the black and Hispanic officers being racist toward? Are black officers being selectively racist towards whites and Hispanics, and Hispanic offices selectively racist towards blacks and whites, all the while working side by side with their racist counterparts? Sounds like very like a very contentious work environment or a completely ridiculous notion. I'm sure you being an idiot will preclude you from logical deduction.


My words are going to be in vain because you've already made up your mind, but you're approaching this too much from a, excuse the terminology, black-and-white angle. A white cop isn't going to be racist in the "all non-whites are scum, no exceptions" way. They're racist in the way that their black or hispanic colleague is a good guy ("hey, I've known this guy for 8 years, he's a great fella") but at the same time, when approaching a vehicle with a black driver, he'll have his hand on his gun "just in case" while he wouldn't be doing that if the driver is white. He's going to be racist in the way that he's going to "stop this driver because he looks suspicious" when the driver is black, but the word "suspicious" wouldn't cross his mind when the driver is white.

The problem with racism these days is that it's very often not immediately obvious. Sure, there are still people spray-painting white power or KKK symbols on walls. There are still people who will call a black man a "[LOL RACISM]" instead of a "person". There are still people who burn crosses. These are obvious examples that are condemned by most sane people (which, unfortunately, does not include your president, but that's another story). The problem is that there's a lot.... a lot of subtle non-obvious racism going on, especially in places like the police force.

Maybe this video can help you out, as it shows a few not so obvious examples in an obvious way:


Or maybe you can view the video I posted above, showing the man being stopped by a cop because he did 65 on a 70 road. Think that's the first time this happened to him? No, he says it himself in the video. It happens to him every god damn time he drivers there. Not racism you think? Come on.
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Transient
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PostPosted: 06-12-2020 08:08 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


YourGrandpa wrote:
Transient wrote:
Black and Hispanic officers are entirely susceptible to racism, you don't have to be white to be racist. Your reductive logic and binary world view is exactly the kind of brainless reasoning that's kept institutional racism from being addressed in any meaningful way. But I'm sure you thought Obama was actually pretty articulate, didn't you?


Of course, anyone can be racist. But if all officers are racist because they work for a 300+ year old racist institution, who exactly are the black and Hispanic officers being racist toward? Are black officers being selectively racist towards whites and Hispanics, and Hispanic offices selectively racist towards blacks and whites, all the while working side by side with their racist counterparts? Sounds like a very contentious work environment or a completely ridiculous notion. I'm sure you being an idiot will preclude you from logical deduction.

Black officers can be racist toward black people. :dork:
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YourGrandpa
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PostPosted: 06-12-2020 08:18 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Nice dodge...

Racist: a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Hey dopey, that's hateful not racist.
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scared?
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PostPosted: 06-12-2020 08:34 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Lol Gramps is racist... And a trumpanzee... Predictably pathetic...
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xer0s
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PostPosted: 06-12-2020 08:40 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It took until page 4 of this thread before Gramps popped his massive head in here. He’s been chomping at the bit to pipe up with his moronic views. And y’all are surprised?
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Transient
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PostPosted: 06-12-2020 09:17 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


YourGrandpa wrote:
Nice dodge...

Racist: a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Hey dopey, that's hateful not racist.

That wasn't a dodge, that was my point the whole time, hence the :dork: icon. Instead of taking your definition of racism from Merriam-Webster, maybe try talking to a black person.
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 06-12-2020 09:25 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


YourGrandpa wrote:
Nice dodge...

Racist: a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Hey dopey, that's hateful not racist.

Speaking of dodging, you decided to just ignore my post clearly outlining how this kind of racism works and instead dived into a game of semantics about the term "racism"?
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 06-12-2020 09:28 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Transient wrote:
YourGrandpa wrote:
Nice dodge...

Racist: a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Hey dopey, that's hateful not racist.

That wasn't a dodge, that was my point the whole time, hence the :dork: icon. Instead of taking your definition of racism from Merriam-Webster, maybe try talking to a black person.

"But I've got a black friend, so I can't possibly be racist" reply in 3... 2... 1....
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Transient
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PostPosted: 06-12-2020 09:39 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


He got so excited by the prospect of 'getting' me that I don't think he even bothered to read past the comma in his copy/pasted definition. :olo:
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YourGrandpa
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PostPosted: 06-12-2020 12:12 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Transient wrote:
That wasn't a dodge, that was my point the whole time, hence the :dork: icon. Instead of taking your definition of racism from Merriam-Webster, maybe try talking to a black person.


Of course it was a doge. You didn't answer one of the questions... I think it's better to understand the actual meaning of the word instead of attempting to change it to fit your narrative.

Transient wrote:
He got so excited by the prospect of 'getting' me that I don't think he even bothered to read past the comma in his copy/pasted definition. :olo:


Isn't that cute. He thinks I give a shit about little ol' him. :olo:




Last edited by YourGrandpa on 06-12-2020 02:53 PM, edited 2 times in total.
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 06-12-2020 12:15 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


YGP continues to ignore the points he can't refute.
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YourGrandpa
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PostPosted: 06-12-2020 12:19 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
blah, blah blah some LEOs and people are racist


No shit captain obvious. I agree. Do you feel better now that I've recognized you?(I also watched the video) But police aren't fundamentally racists simply because they are police. Only a moron would deduce that.
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YourGrandpa
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PostPosted: 06-12-2020 12:24 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


scared? wrote:
Lol Gramps is racist... And a trumpanzee... Predictably pathetic...


I didn't and wouldn't have voted for Trump. I'm not sure how anyone could vote for either candidate.

Are you a creepy sleepy Joe dumbo?
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Transient
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PostPosted: 06-12-2020 04:26 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


YourGrandpa wrote:
Of course it was a doge. You didn't answer one of the questions...

My one-sentence statement answered all of your questions, but allow me to hold your hand and answer it again. The premise of your questions is based on shit I didn't say. I never said "all officers are racist", I said the police institution itself is racist. Go back and read more carefully. There are many black and Hispanic officers who are racist toward black citizens, whether they realize it or not, in the ways already articulated by Eraser above.

YourGrandpa wrote:
I think it's better to understand the actual meaning of the word instead of attempting to change it to fit your narrative.

You laid it out pretty clearly yourself, there, buddy.
"Racist: a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another."

YourGrandpa wrote:
Isn't that cute. He thinks I give a shit about little ol' him. :olo:

Well you certainly don't give a shit about reading your own post, because you undermined your point with your own definition. :olo:
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YourGrandpa
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PostPosted: 06-12-2020 06:38 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Transient wrote:
durh...


How can an institution be racist? That's like saying a car is racist. :olo:

When you say an institution is racist, you're saying the people that make up that institution are racist. If you agree all officers aren't racist, how many are? (Rhetorical, don't bother. You can't/don't know. Kind of the point).

People can't be racists towards their own race, ding dong. That's not how racism works. You can be biased or judgmental, but not racist. Do you really think that a black or Hispanic officers believe that the white race is superior? Come on... I know you want to be right so bad that you're willing to defend this ignorant position, but you're not.
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Transient
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PostPosted: 06-12-2020 08:55 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


YourGrandpa wrote:
How can an institution be racist? That's like saying a car is racist. :olo:

When you say an institution is racist, you're saying the people that make up that institution are racist. If you agree all officers aren't racist, how many are? (Rhetorical, don't bother. You can't/don't know. Kind of the point).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism

YourGrandpa wrote:
People can't be racists towards their own race, ding dong. That's not how racism works. You can be biased or judgmental, but not racist. Do you really think that a black or Hispanic officers believe that the white race is superior? Come on... I know you want to be right so bad that you're willing to defend this ignorant position, but you're not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internalized_racism
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 06-12-2020 10:37 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


This discussion is stupid. It's all about semantics. At least, I hope it is. Let's humor YGP for a moment and assume that technically, the term "racism" doesn't apply here. Does that mean there's no problem within the police force? I think not. The problems are still there. Does a different label change anything about the situation or the required solition? No, I do not think it does.

So, gramps, what are you trying to argue here? Is it just about the terminology that's supposedly wrong (wrongly applied by hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people around the world), or are you actually arguing that because it can't be racism, there is no racism and therefore all the protestors are just, well, imagining things, or something?
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YourGrandpa
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PostPosted: 06-13-2020 12:36 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It's not semantics. You're calling people racist, who likely aren't. This widely highlighted problem with policing isn't a racism problem or a police problem, it's a people problem. No matter how many laws you create or how much you defund the police, you're not going to fix the problem without fixing the people on both sides. People don't respect one another and that's the bottom line.

BTW, I'm not saying racism doesn't exist or isn't present in some police. But every day there are hundreds of stories you'll never see praising the harrowing acts of law enforcement. However, they're seemingly lost in the media frenzy for that one story they can sensationalize for more clicks or ratings.
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 06-13-2020 12:56 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


YourGrandpa wrote:
you're not going to fix the problem without fixing the people on both sides.

Ah, I see YGP has switched to victim blaming mode.
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Transient
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PostPosted: 06-13-2020 01:07 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Where have I heard that 'both sides' thing before? Sounds familiar....
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 06-13-2020 01:17 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


(edit: this post is in reply to YGP, not Transient)

There is clear and irrefutable proof that the police in general has a problem with negative race based prejudices and biases (aka: racism). I don't understand how, at this point, after everything that's been shown and done the past two weeks, you can still deny this.
Pointing out institutional racism in the police force won't fix it, but it's a start for action. In some places, action is being taken, further cementing the fact that there is a problem and it's large enough to need fixing. But in the police ranks, there's a secondary problem, and this is that cops are rarely if ever held accountable. Their racist behavior isn't corrected. In some cases, it's even implicitly encouraged.

Arguing that they're also doing good things is just... Jesus Christ man, it's such a red herring bullshit argument to throw in, it's actually quite distasteful at this point.

Even more distasteful is to claim it's a problem of "respect" on "both sides". That shit is just so detached from reality. I can just about hear Trump talk about Charlottesville again.

I'm thinking between you and Whiskey, he's probably the least racist of the two.
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 06-13-2020 01:21 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Nice one, Faux News...

Fox News published digitally altered and misleading images on its website's homepage Friday that made a demonstration in Seattle, in which a group of largely peaceful Black Lives Matter protesters have occupied six city blocks, appear violent and dangerous.
The deceitful tactic was called out by The Seattle Times. The local newspaper reported that when it asked Fox News about the images, the network removed them.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/13/medi ... index.html
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seremtan
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PostPosted: 06-13-2020 01:26 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


remember when Fox News illustrated a story about Anonymous with a clip of an exploding white van?

Really set the noggin joggin
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