"Hard Boiled" -canceled

[AndyW]

gone

[foralarx2k3]

Ok, so I played a couple of games on this now and I really like it. Can really think of anything I'd do to change the layout. But I think you need to mix up your ammo boxes to better encourage movement around the map, rather than have ammo for the weapon right next to the weapon. I'm tempted to say lose the haste as I don't really think there is a need for it. Maybe also replace the MG with another SG? BTW it plays really well as a 2v2 TDM as well. Looking forward to watching this progress.

[AndehX]

I agree with the above. Take out the haste. replace with regen.
Move ammo boxes around a bit and take out the machinegun.

[AndyW]

Thx!

- Machinegun is gone
- Changed Haste to Regen
- Remixing Ammo-Boxes in progress...

At the moment i am picking up textures and working on my Photoshop Skills.
Again im not sure about the theme, i really like Industrial stuff.
I thought about working with Concrete and Brick Textures - but i have to find another setting. ( Dont want to win a "look-alike" Contest compared to Pat Howards "Tresspass" )
Now im having no Job i can put all my Time into mapping.

I still have alot to learn:

- Shaders
- Layouting
- Modeling
- Basic Photoshop stuff

[AndyW]

Im thinking about to add some Music... ( I like the Music in "Limbus" )
This one would be awesome, but no chance there!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpzb6t0p81Q

Maybe i give Fruity-Loops a try... Its a shame that i sold my Quasimidi-TechnoX...

[AndyW]

Update-Time!

[Pat Howard]

nice layout, andy. great connections. the one issue i had was the central area still seems to big and open. i can't imagine myself using anything but the LG in that room.

still an improvement over the last layout for sure. keep it up.

[AndyW]

Thanks, im already redesigning the central arena.

Houston, we have a problem...

Cant compile AAS!
After rotating 6 patch cylinders i got the error message marked RED. AAS wont build until i clipped the cylinders. After clipping them all was fine in game...

Now i have this error marked GREEN too and dont know why. I tried to build a water-tunnel and there were no leaks -i just ended up with no AAS file and the error message in green.
I removed the water-tunnel and sealed the map up againg, -no leaks... but the error is still the same.

[lvlshot]http://i.imgur.com/17t3sA8.jpg[/lvlshot]

Map is working fine but i cant get the aas to work.
Im compiling with Q3Map2Build V1.0 build 25
Any "ideas from the deep"??

ERROR UPDATE:

So i tried a bit around and after selecting the whole map and moving it 8 units in each direction the AAS works fine... strange stuff! I also got rid of the 6 rotated patch-cylinders that caused an error.
But my BSPC Log still looks not clean:
[spoiler]C:\QLMapping\Q3Map2Build>"C:\QLMapping\GtkRadiant\bspc.exe" -bsp2aas "C:\QLMappi
ng\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.bsp" -forcesidesvisible -optimize
Opened log bspc.log
BSPC version 2.1h, Aug 24 2013 23:20:03
forcesidesvisible = true
optimize = true
bsp2aas: C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.bsp to C:\QLMapping\w
olfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.aas
-- Q3_LoadMapFromBSP --
Loading map from C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.bsp...
12146 triangles
4458 patch tris
creating planar surface planes...
searching visible brush sides...
12232 brush sides
12232 brush sides textured out of 12232
Entity 0, Brush 838: duplicate plane
nummapbrushsides = 24243
512 curve brushes
1 threads
-------- Brush CSG ---------
4635 original brushes
3595 output brushes
-------- Brush BSP ---------
3595 brushes
17355 visible faces
0 nonvisible faces
24611 total sides
Win32 multi-threading
1 threads max
depth first bsp building
79360 splits
11081 KB of peak total bsp memory
BSP tree created in 15 seconds
------- Prune Nodes --------
51118 pruned nodes
---- Node Portalization ----
28243 nodes portalized
1087 tiny portals
4788 KB of portal memory
9914 KB of winding memory
------ FloodEntities -------
------- FillOutside --------
6511 solid leaves
2965 leaves filled
4646 inside leaves
4645 areas created
1454 face merges
160AAS_TestSplitPlane: tried face plane as splitter
AAS_TestSplitPlane: tried face plane as splitter
385
39 face merges
2226 areas merged
5353 nodes pruned
2805 areas checked for shared face flipping
5598 face merges
11Warning: MergeWindings: front to back found twice
Warning: MergeWindings: front to back found twice
41
0 ladder subdivisions
11371 edges melted
2805 areas provided with settings
allocated 3 MB and 883 KB and 756 bytes of AAS memory
2805 areas stored

AAS created in 18 seconds
loading collision map...
CM_LoadMap( C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.bsp, 0 )
19 weapon jump areas
calculating reachability...
100.0%
please wait while storing reachability...
found a trigger_push with velocity 0.000000 0.000000 634.980286
found a trigger_push with velocity 5.932959 0.000000 593.295837
found a trigger_push with velocity -42.394791 0.000000 747.261658
found a trigger_push with velocity 0.000000 52.086510 844.748474
trigger_teleport model = "*5"
calculating clusters...
0 forced portal areas
73 possible portal areas
56 removed portal areas
18 portals created
7 clusters created
cluster 1 has 28 reachability areas
cluster 2 has 790 reachability areas
cluster 3 has 3 reachability areas
cluster 4 has 6 reachability areas
cluster 5 has 8 reachability areas
cluster 6 has 8 reachability areas
843 total reachability areas
1920693 AAS memory/CPU usage (the lower the better)
AAS data optimized.
writing C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.aas
numvertexes = 0
numplanes = 3994
numedges = 1
edgeindexsize = 0
numfaces = 1
faceindexsize = 0
numareas = 2806
numareasettings = 2806
reachabilitysize = 3716
numnodes = 9154
numportals = 18
portalindexsize = 34
numclusters = 7
3057 walk
0 crouch
60 barrier jump
169 jump
0 ladder
387 walk off ledge
0 swim
0 water jump
5 teleport
0 elevator
16 rocket jump
0 bfg jump
0 grapple hook
0 double jump
0 ramp jump
0 strafe jump
21 jump pad
0 func bob
freed 3 MB and 883 KB and 756 bytes of AAS memory
BSPC run time is 21 seconds
Closed log bspc.log

C:\QLMapping\Q3Map2Build>Pause
Drücken Sie eine beliebige Taste . . .[/spoiler]

Heres a Log of the rest:
[spoiler]entering scripts/ct_infinity.shader
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
entering scripts/focalpoint.shader
Loading C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.map
entering C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.map
WARNING: Couldn't find image for shader textures/sfx/portal2_sfx
WARNING: Over 90 percent structural map detected. Compile time may be adversely
affected.
0 areaportals
Size: -1928, -1792, -368 to 1048, 1200, 800
block size = { 1024 1024 1024 }
939 leafs filled
writing C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.prt
--- WriteSurfaceExtraFile ---
Writing C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.srf
Writing C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.bsp
Wrote 1.7 MB (1800428 bytes)
4 seconds elapsed

C:\QLMapping\Q3Map2Build>Pause
Drücken Sie eine beliebige Taste . . .

C:\QLMapping\Q3Map2Build>"C:\QLMapping\GtkRadiant\q3map2.exe" -fs_basepath "C:\Q
LMapping\wolfcamql10.3" -fs_game "baseq3" -vis -saveprt "C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql1
0.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.map"
2.5.17
2 threads
Q3Map - v1.0r (c) 1999 Id Software Inc.
Q3Map (ydnar) - v2.5.17
GtkRadiant - v1.6.4 Dec 13 2013 17:23:59
We're still here
VFS Init: C:/QLMapping/wolfcamql10.3/baseq3/

--- Vis ---
saveprt = true
Loading C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.bsp
Loading C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.prt
1500 portalclusters
4235 numportals
6442 numfaces
8470 active portals
0 hint portals
visdatasize:288008

--- BasePortalVis (8470) ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (2)
8 average number of passages per leaf
35 MB required passage memory

--- CreatePassages (8470) ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (3)

--- PassagePortalFlow (8470) ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (39)
creating leaf vis...
Total visible clusters: 512925
Average clusters visible: 341
Writing C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.bsp
Wrote 2.0 MB (2088436 bytes)
44 seconds elapsed

C:\QLMapping\Q3Map2Build>Pause
Drücken Sie eine beliebige Taste . . .

C:\QLMapping\Q3Map2Build>"C:\QLMapping\GtkRadiant\q3map2.exe" -fs_basepath "C:\Q
LMapping\wolfcamql10.3" -fs_game "baseq3" -light -dirt -fast -filter -patchshado
ws -bounce 3 -compensate 1.0 -dirtdepth 32 -dirtscale 3 -gamma 1.2 -samplesize 8
"C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.map"
2.5.17
2 threads
Q3Map - v1.0r (c) 1999 Id Software Inc.
Q3Map (ydnar) - v2.5.17
GtkRadiant - v1.6.4 Dec 13 2013 17:23:59
We're still here
VFS Init: C:/QLMapping/wolfcamql10.3/baseq3/

--- Light ---
WARNING: Unknown argument "-dirt"
Fast mode enabled
Lightmap filtering enabled
Patch shadow casting enabled
Radiosity enabled with 3 bounce(s)
Lighting compensation set to 1/1.000000
Dirtmapping depth set to 32.0
WARNING: Unknown argument "32"
Dirtmapping scale set to 3.0
WARNING: Unknown argument "3"
Lighting gamma set to 1.200000
Default lightmap sample size set to 8x8 units
entering scripts/shaderlist.txt
entering scripts/ad_content.shader
entering scripts/ad_trim.shader
entering scripts/base_button.shader
entering scripts/base_door.shader
entering scripts/base_floor.shader
entering scripts/base_floor2.shader
entering scripts/base_light.shader
entering scripts/base_object.shader
entering scripts/base_support.shader
entering scripts/base_trim.shader
entering scripts/base_wall.shader
entering scripts/base_wall2.shader
entering scripts/camper.shader
entering scripts/cliffside.shader
entering scripts/common.shader
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "snowsteps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
entering scripts/ctf.shader
entering scripts/ctf2.shader
entering scripts/dc_clientpak.shader
entering scripts/gfx.shader
entering scripts/gfx2.shader
entering scripts/gothic_block.shader
entering scripts/gothic_button.shader
entering scripts/gothic_door.shader
entering scripts/gothic_floor.shader
entering scripts/gothic_floor2.shader
entering scripts/gothic_light.shader
entering scripts/gothic_trim.shader
entering scripts/gothic_wall.shader
entering scripts/grunge.shader
entering scripts/industrial.shader
entering scripts/jk_tourney1.shader
entering scripts/liquid.shader
entering scripts/liquid2.shader
entering scripts/liquids.shader
entering scripts/models.shader
entering scripts/models2.shader
entering scripts/models3.shader
entering scripts/organics.shader
entering scripts/pi.shader
entering scripts/proto2.shader
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
entering scripts/se_blockout.shader
entering scripts/se_gothic.shader
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
entering scripts/se_industrial.shader
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
entering scripts/sfx.shader
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "nomipmaps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "nomipmaps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "nomipmaps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "nomipmaps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "nomipmaps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "nomipmaps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "nomipmaps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "nomipmaps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "nomipmaps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "nomipmaps"
entering scripts/sfx2.shader
entering scripts/shw.shader
entering scripts/skin.shader
entering scripts/skies.shader
entering scripts/skies2.shader
entering scripts/spider.shader
entering scripts/stone.shader
entering scripts/terrain.shader
entering scripts/tim.shader
entering scripts/tp_gothic.shader
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
entering scripts/q3map.shader
entering scripts/ql.shader
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "snowsteps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "snowsteps"
entering scripts/ct_infinity.shader
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
WARNING: Unknown surfaceparm: "woodsteps"
entering scripts/focalpoint.shader
Loading C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.bsp
Loading C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.srf
Loading C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.map
entering C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.map
--- SetupGrid ---
Grid size = { 64, 64, 128 }
19881 grid points
336 point lights
0 spotlights
311 diffuse (area) lights
1 sun/sky lights
646 total lights
2 culled lights
--- TraceGrid ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (0)
47 x 47 x 9 = 19881 grid
--- MapRawLightmap ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (0)
235778 luxels
168641 luxels mapped
12846 luxels occluded
646 total lights
0 culled lights
--- IlluminateRawLightmap ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (1)
235778 luxels illuminated
--- IlluminateVertexes ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (0)
20248 vertexes illuminated
--- StoreSurfaceLightmaps ---
197742 luxels used
196608 luxels stored (100.58 percent efficiency)
740 solid surface lightmaps
1096 identical surface lightmaps, using 18860 luxels
0 vertex forced surfaces
0 vertex approximated surfaces
12 BSP lightmaps
12 total lightmaps
103 unique lightmap/shader combinations
Writing C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.bsp
Wrote 2.7 MB (2837308 bytes)

--- Radiosity (bounce 1 of 3) ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (0)
3156 diffuse surfaces
11550 total lights
333 culled lights
--- IlluminateRawLightmap ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (16)
471556 luxels illuminated
20248 vertexes illuminated
--- IlluminateVertexes ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (0)
40556 vertexes illuminated
--- StoreSurfaceLightmaps ---
197742 luxels used
196608 luxels stored (100.58 percent efficiency)
426 solid surface lightmaps
969 identical surface lightmaps, using 17791 luxels
0 vertex forced surfaces
0 vertex approximated surfaces
12 BSP lightmaps
12 total lightmaps
107 unique lightmap/shader combinations
Writing C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.bsp
Wrote 2.7 MB (2837308 bytes)

--- Radiosity (bounce 2 of 3) ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (0)
3156 diffuse surfaces
12387 total lights
370 culled lights
--- IlluminateRawLightmap ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (18)
707334 luxels illuminated
40556 vertexes illuminated
--- IlluminateVertexes ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (0)
60863 vertexes illuminated
--- StoreSurfaceLightmaps ---
197742 luxels used
196608 luxels stored (100.58 percent efficiency)
420 solid surface lightmaps
975 identical surface lightmaps, using 20679 luxels
0 vertex forced surfaces
0 vertex approximated surfaces
12 BSP lightmaps
12 total lightmaps
108 unique lightmap/shader combinations
Writing C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.bsp
Wrote 2.7 MB (2837308 bytes)

--- Radiosity (bounce 3 of 3) ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (0)
3156 diffuse surfaces
6595 total lights
243 culled lights
--- IlluminateRawLightmap ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (12)
943112 luxels illuminated
60863 vertexes illuminated
--- IlluminateVertexes ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (0)
81182 vertexes illuminated
--- StoreSurfaceLightmaps ---
197742 luxels used
196608 luxels stored (100.58 percent efficiency)
424 solid surface lightmaps
978 identical surface lightmaps, using 20886 luxels
0 vertex forced surfaces
0 vertex approximated surfaces
12 BSP lightmaps
12 total lightmaps
108 unique lightmap/shader combinations
Writing C:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\overscale3.bsp
Wrote 2.7 MB (2837308 bytes)
60 seconds elapsed

C:\QLMapping\Q3Map2Build>Pause
Drücken Sie eine beliebige Taste . . .[/spoiler]

Any tips to get rid of the error messages are welcome. I want to fix those errors before continuing working on the map.

[AndyW]

Thanks, i will search on that little tiny buggy brush.
Brush cleanup seems not to work for this problem.

Heres a quick shot from the Teleporter Room.
Note that the Brick textures (by Sock) will be changed to Green ones.
I want it to look like a storage-room. The rest of the map will mostly be done with concrete and metal plates with some green brick accents.
All textures by Sock. And as you can see this room was inspired quite a bit by Pat Howards new map Trespass...

[AndehX]

I like the look. The brick texture looks good!

[AndyW]

Toku´s last post made me not sleep last night.. So i did some Math and he was right! I ended up with this:
Floor to First-level: around 4 Meters
First-level to Ceiling: around 4,5 Meters
So i think 9 Meters in height are not overscaled for a storage-room. Anyway i will try to get this one looking "right".
But youre right, the bricks look a lil Big!
Thanks for feedback and suggestions as always, i will keep that in mind!

[AndyW]

Im reading alot at the moment so i did a check on the area-portal stuff and was shocked!!
I think it should look like in this link:
https://victorkarp.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... nt-textur/

But it looks like Armageddon...

[lvlshot]http://i.imgur.com/gy9dbr0.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://i.imgur.com/5OhYBuR.jpg[/lvlshot]

Do you guys use this area-portal stuff or is it outdated?

[AndyW]

I think the teleporter is still way too big.. about 3 Meters :/

[AndyW]

Aaah, i forgot to "detail" again.. damn me...*doh!*

[Fjoggs]

I used the Area Portal plugin for my tourney1 map, but I wouldn't bother with it right now if I was you. Focus on more important stuff.

[AndyW]

@Joggs: Okay, thanks. Trying to focus...

[AndyW]

Some shots from the nearly finished MH Room.
Im using Socks Industrial set and some stock shaders atm.
Had some re-scaling here and there

[AndyW]

AAarghh! The same Error again... I just did some detailing and added some cylinders as pipes!
The BSP works fine but i cant get the AAS to work. I never had this Error in any stuff i did before and this Time im doing the Pipe-Stuff exactly the same way as i always do.
Im really sad...

[Pat Howard]

if you don't want to use fixAAS, you could try burying your detail geo and patches in simple botclip brushes. not sure if this will solve your problem, but i would do this either way.

[CZghost]

Are you gonna make the map for Quake Live or Quake 3? I see warning messages of unknown surfaceparms - snowsteps and woodsteps - these are used withing QL...

[AndyW]

Problem solved!
Error was caused by "free-rotating" patch cylinders via th "R" key. Strange and a little bit sad -seems you only can rotate Cylinders in steps of 45degree without getting this Error:
"WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel"

Now i will test if the way Pat Howard mentioned works (Botclip the Stuff).

@Ghost: Im working at the Moment just with the QL PK3´s, Socks Industrial Set and Wolfcam... Cant find my Q3 Disc I want to do both, Classic Q3 with maybe some jumps fixed and QL.

@Pat Howard: Can i just stick the botclip Brushes right into the existing player-clip brushes?

[Pat Howard]

playerclip doubles as bot clip. just use bot clip where you want to simplify surfaces for the bots but not the players.

[AndyW]

Okay thanks! I Was not sure about the 2in1Brush thing but if its not a promlem... Cool! *happy*

[CZghost]

Anyway, if you want to release your map for Quake 3, you should not use these surfaceparms as they were not implemented in Q3. I can't tell you what will happen when you use invalid surfaceparms, it might corrupt the game or do nothing. I remember that I placed a map with corrupted shaders inside baseq3 and entire game became corrupted - some textures were missing and shaders most stopped working... I'd suggest you not to use it to avoid this bug...

[AndyW]

I think i will move on to another Game / Engine... Seems it make no sense to put energy into something like Q3.
The Game is simply Dead and its a pain to get Feedback on stuff so its the best way to move on to something newer with a more active community... Im simply 15 years to late, -Doh
I think for me its better to work on my Photoshop skills and other stuff before wasting my Time with not finished or overscaled maps in Quake. Its a bit sad but thats life...