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Quake Live WIP: ABC_beta https://www.quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=49903 |
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Author: | xiripiti [ 01-04-2014 08:58 AM ] |
Post subject: | Quake Live WIP: ABC_beta |
. Go to Beta 4 ----- ARCHIVED ----- Hi guys This is the 3rd map for Quake Live I`m working on. The first rough was done several months ago and forgot. Now I`m back on it. ABC is a small duel/ffa map. At this moment my only worry is to make a map that can offer a good, pleasant fight. For that reason I will forget, for now, textures and nice architectonical details, and put my focus on the real thing: movement fluidity and a balanced relationship between rooms and items. As you can see, only 4 plain colors were applied as textures. If u want, play it and send me some feedback about what u feel about this. https://www.dropbox.com/s/xryhushi1h0s2b1/abc_beta01.pk3 |
Author: | Theftbot [ 01-04-2014 11:53 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: ABC_beta01 |
corrupt file! |
Author: | xiripiti [ 01-05-2014 10:00 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: ABC_beta01 |
Theftbot wrote: corrupt file! Think not. Go to properties and check read only. |
Author: | Theftbot [ 01-05-2014 12:33 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: ABC_beta01 |
Doh its QL |
Author: | fKd [ 01-05-2014 04:30 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: ABC_beta01 |
![]() |
Author: | xiripiti [ 01-06-2014 04:27 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: ABC_beta01 |
"This is the 3rd map for Quake Live I`m working on." Do I feel some silent unwill about QL ?????? |
Author: | AEon [ 01-06-2014 05:00 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: ABC_beta01 |
Only speaking for myself. I hate QL testing of maps, because my account there keeps on getting deleted because I don't play. And loading custom maps is a bitch, i.e. I was not able to load a custom map at all. So I am disgruntled, and hate QL. Yes, I am old and bitter. ![]() This does not go against your map, I actually like that screenshot a lot. I'd prefer the map to be for Q3A though. I'd certainly immediately help test it and give feedback. There may be more folks who feel that way, then again what do I know. |
Author: | cityy [ 01-06-2014 07:44 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: ABC_beta01 |
You can use WolfcamQL for testing QL maps, AEon. It's QL's q3mme, based on ioq3. You just need to download it once and copy over all the pk3 files from your QL install. You'll be able to play QL maps with q3 physics and without having to login to an account. Personally, I think that making maps for QL is a reasonable thing to do nowadays. The potential audience is bigger and custom maps don't get played in Q3 anymore either so it does barely have any favor to it. |
Author: | xiripiti [ 01-06-2014 09:37 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: ABC_beta01 |
AEon wrote: Only speaking for myself. I hate QL testing of maps, because my account there keeps on getting deleted because I don't play. And loading custom maps is a bitch, i.e. I was not able to load a custom map at all. So I am disgruntled, and hate QL. Yes, I am old and bitter. ![]() This does not go against your map, I actually like that screenshot a lot. I'd prefer the map to be for Q3A though. I'd certainly immediately help test it and give feedback. There may be more folks who feel that way, then again what do I know. Man...I`m not a kid anymore, sometimes i feel too old to spend time doing maps, knowing they will never be played online. But I`m not bitter at all and I love play QLive like a kid. Citty is right, u should install Wolfcam. ABC_beta02 will be posted in few days and I want you to test it and tell me all mistakes I´m doing |
Author: | obsidian [ 01-06-2014 03:12 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: ABC_beta01 |
It goes both ways, making a map only for Q3 will get people complaining about how they don't have a copy of the game and only have QL. In a perfect world, maps would work for both, but seeing as how that isn't the case, it's up to the mapper to provide support for whatever game he's interested in most. That said, it's not super hard to convert a map between the two games if you have a Q3 license, nor is it super hard to just install both games. TL;DR: Meh. |
Author: | AEon [ 01-06-2014 04:01 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: ABC_beta01 |
Was not aware of WolfcamQL, installed v10.3, started to fix configs to play like I am used to under my test Q3A folder. Took a quick look at the map. |
Author: | KittenIgnition [ 01-06-2014 08:56 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: ABC_beta01 |
cityy wrote: You can use WolfcamQL for testing QL maps, AEon. It's QL's q3mme, based on ioq3. You'll be able to play QL maps with q3 physics and without having to login to an account. That sounds so much like something I would say ![]() |
Author: | xiripiti [ 01-07-2014 03:56 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: ABC_beta01 |
AEon wrote: Was not aware of WolfcamQL, installed v10.3, started to fix configs to play like I am used to under my test Q3A folder. Took a quick look at the map. I`m glad u installed WolfcamQL and took a look at my map. Any comment? My first concern at this moment is about how items are placed along the map. The next beta release wont have important changes to the layout, so if you have suggestions to modify items places, now is the right time. |
Author: | AEon [ 01-07-2014 08:13 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: ABC_beta01 |
Well, played it twice so far, second time against bots. IMO, the main focus should not be the items, but the layout itself and the gameflow. I have been playing Rise of the Triad (2013) this past week, so was surprised how effective rocket jumping actually can be in Q3A. That said, I have the feeling this map is geared towards competitive rocket jumping as primary means of travel? I kept having to jump down from ledges, or jump along them, or use 125 FPS jumps to overcome gaps. All things that are extremely bad for bot-play, i.e.these all are dead ends for bots. Is this intentional? I.e. bots have little to no priority? Strangely the map worked more or less with 4 bots on hardcore. Though they do congregate on the lowest level of the map. Generally, you might consider giving the lowest part of the map, more height variation, to avoid it being completely flat, e.g. by adding some about player-heigh platforms, with a few steps. On the upper level, you have a set of stairs around a roundish corner. Your step heights are too heigh by a factor of two IMO, making the player head bob extremely. Doubling the number of steps would help smooth the head bobbing. (Just guessing, your steps seem to have 16u and they should be more like 8u heigh.) Bugs:
I would have to play the map a lot more to understand your present connectivity to be able to maybe suggest connections that could help. A quick check let me notice the following:
Just to be clear, I really like the way you abstracted the geometry and the design you use in the map. Hope that is of some use. |
Author: | xiripiti [ 01-07-2014 12:00 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: QL: ABC_beta01 |
Ty for ur comments, Aeon. Need to read it with more attention. Anyway, very intersting stuff, some good ideas ![]() |
Author: | xiripiti [ 01-08-2014 03:07 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: QL: ABC_beta01 |
Hi Aeon -About bots priority, I did make this map thinking only on human play. Maybe I am wrong. Imo, play vs bots is not the essense of this game. For me, bots are usefull as a way to test the map and not much more. I dont know any map where play vs bots is still funny after 3 games. -After testing with bots, I verified they move almost only on the lower floor. Even those who spawn on upper levels. After they are downfloor they have no easy way to go up. -You are right: lower floor needs a major modification. As you say, it needs other ways to connect easy to upper floors, not only with JP or TP. The feeling of geting trapped in this area is real. -Dont want to make this a RJ map, but give the chance of using it to faster moves, and only if the player wants. -About stairs...I have allways a probl to make them "fit" in the layout, but is something I will see again. -Skybox...no problem here, on both Wolfcam and QLive work perfect. -JP nosound is a personal old problem : never had sound on JP in all maps I`ve done. But have to find a solution, wont be so dificult...I think. Tanks for playing and comment this map. Beta02 will come soon. |
Author: | AEon [ 01-08-2014 07:12 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: QL: ABC_beta01 |
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Author: | xiripiti [ 01-08-2014 12:22 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: QL: ABC_beta01 |
In Wolfcam baseq3 u need to have all pk3 from quakelive. The sky shaders are inside those pk3 and wolfcam needs them to render the sky I used. But if u already have them, look at the folder named shader list (or similar). All shaders must be listed there. Hope this helps |
Author: | xiripiti [ 01-08-2014 12:35 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: QL: ABC_beta01 |
Almost forgot...I will use ur tip to"control" bots, using some items in certain places to "atract" them. Good idea. Dunno if in a human game it will be ok, but for now seems the best way to make a playble map. |
Author: | AEon [ 01-08-2014 02:51 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: QL: ABC_beta01 |
I am seeing this issue on the console: Code: WARNING: R_FindImageFile could not find 'textures/skies/meth_clouds_green.tga' in shader 'textures/skies/meth_clouds_green' Shader textures/skies/meth_clouds_green has a stage with no image WARNING ShaderForShaderNum: using default shader for 'textures/skies/meth_clouds_green' (8, 20) WARNING ShaderForShaderNum: using default shader for 'textures/skies/meth_clouds_green' (8, 23) WARNING ShaderForShaderNum: using default shader for 'textures/skies/meth_clouds_green' (8, 21) WARNING ShaderForShaderNum: using default shader for 'textures/skies/meth_clouds_green' (8, 22) WARNING ShaderForShaderNum: using default shader for 'textures/skies/meth_clouds_green' (8, 22) WARNING ShaderForShaderNum: using default shader for 'textures/skies/meth_clouds_green' (8, 22) stitched 0 LoD cracks Your pk3 is in D:\Games\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\abc_beta01.pk3, were it seems to belong with all the contents of the C:\Users\AEon\AppData\LocalLow\id Software\quakelive\baseq3 folder. The shaders are normally in scripts/... no shader list file there. |
Author: | xiripiti [ 01-10-2014 11:18 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: QL: ABC_beta01 |
AEon wrote: The shaders are normally in scripts/... no shader list file there. I`m not a shader expert...but I`m sure the sky shader is in my pk3 |
Author: | xiripiti [ 01-13-2014 09:55 AM ] |
Post subject: | QuakeLive ABC_beta02 |
Attachment: abc_beta 02.jpg After a hard work last weekend, here is the beta 02 version from ABC map.AEON and KITTENIGNITION made some interesting comments and sugestions about beta 01. The major problem was on the ground level, there were not enough ways to get out from there, fast and safe. Besides, the layout of that area is a bit opressive. In this version I added a new set of stairs and a elevator on the gound level, but kept the same layout, hoping that the "opression" feeling disapears with the new wayouts. Changed the position of some items in order that the bots dont get stucked in a small zone, as before. Think this aspect is a bit better, but far from perfect. Changed the design of the TP and added another element: a chimney. Also aplied some testing textures. I`m thinking on another name for this map. ![]() |
Author: | cityy [ 01-13-2014 10:44 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: QuakeLive ABC_beta02 |
You don't have to make a new thread for every release. Just update the old one and post a reply. You can update the title too by editing the initial post. |
Author: | xiripiti [ 01-13-2014 11:21 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: QuakeLive ABC_beta02 |
cityy wrote: You don't have to make a new thread for every release. Just update the old one and post a reply. You can update the title too by editing the initial post. From now on I`ll do that ![]() |
Author: | AEon [ 01-13-2014 01:09 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: QuakeLive ABC_beta02 |
Generally speaking I still feel the layout is "quirky". One tends to have to do strange jumps, all over the place, or bumps into walls or stair step-edges.
IMO, it would help if you take some time to think through the pathing:
No idea if any of this is helpful... I have the feeling possibly not. It could be that the way you see gameplay is completely different from mine. Sorry if this is coming across as negative, that is not my intent, I am just trying to get to grips with the map. And in case you are wondering, yes, it is very difficult to create a good gameflow for a map. In my own maps I did get it right a few times, other times less so. And I mention this now, because as soon as you start adding detail, you will be less and less likely to change the layout and gameflow. So the latter really needs to work before investing huge amounts of time on detail. |
Author: | KittenIgnition [ 01-14-2014 11:09 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: QuakeLive ABC_beta02 |
How do you work like this? I decompiled the map to look around, and all the geometry is so uneven and ugly. It's like you used gridsize 1 for everything, which makes nothing line up properly. I just don't get how you can operate in such an environment, especially now that you're adding textures... it's like Hell. |
Author: | xiripiti [ 01-15-2014 04:38 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: QuakeLive ABC_beta02 |
KittenIgnition wrote: How do you work like this? ... it's like Hell. Hi Kitten You right, this was not done in the proper way, not with that "pro" look. There some work basics I dont know yet. Next map will be done with some more experience, I hope. Anyway, those textures are only a test, and 3 days after I hate them.I`m back to plain colors and remaking the layout, trying to make it technically better. |
Author: | xiripiti [ 01-15-2014 04:47 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: QuakeLive ABC_beta02 |
Aeon Ty for spending so much time analysing this last version and give me so much stuff to think about. About gameflow my general intention is (was) to make paths not too easy for human players and make them use more of their skills......I understand that this creates a lot of dead ends for bots, but my doubt at this moment is: map for human vs bots, human vs human..or both ? As I said before, I have no fun playing vs bots...but maybe if a map is good for bots maybe is good for humans too. Gonna pay more atention to this and make a lot testing with bots. About textures, I know how much they help to create an atmosphere and how that is crucial to players love or hate a map. I`m not happy with these last textures and go back to plain colors for now. |
Author: | AEon [ 01-22-2014 02:16 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: QuakeLive ABC_beta02 |
xiripiti, keep your chin up, creating something is always better than sitting around just playing games, like I have been doing lately, alas. |
Author: | xiripiti [ 01-23-2014 12:05 PM ] |
Post subject: | Quake Live ABC_beta03 |
Hi,here is the abc_beta03. In the last beta02 I made a big mistake: spent a lot time trying some textures I had in mind, instead doing what matters: work on the layout. So, let`s forget beta02. I`m back to plain colors for the textures, and, as a experience, I changed them into blue and I`m glad with it. On the ground level made big changes: the elevator is gone, and changed the position of the JP, now in the center of the back corridor, near the TP. The large central area is now divided in 2, with a small corridor between them. The middle and upper levels are now more "clean", with less dead ends, making the running easier, specialy for bots. Also small changes on items position. I thing that most of spawn points must be redefined on next beta release. I have still big doubts about weps/ammo positioning, and also about health/armour items. Play vs bots is not enough to find the right answer to that. It would be nice if IDSoftware made a server to where map designers upload their maps and play them online with their friends.I would gladly PAY for that. I wait for ur comments https://www.dropbox.com/s/sqq932yj2u95xh9/abc_beta03.pk3 Attachment: abc_beta03_1.jpg Attachment: abc_beta03_2.jpg
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Author: | Theftbot [ 01-23-2014 12:27 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Quake Live ABC_beta03 |
cityy wrote: You don't have to make a new thread for every release. Just update the old one and post a reply. You can update the title too by editing the initial post. http://quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=49937&p=968091 |
Author: | AEon [ 01-23-2014 04:28 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Quake Live ABC_beta03 |
I am really glad to see these changes. I really love your simpler texturing, and apparently that is your forte, to make simple texturing look good on geometry, I admire that a lot. A few things I noted:
I have a few other thoughts about gameflow, but I think you are on the way of discovering them yourself, probably finding better solutions. Map is really starting to look solid, nice design, neat texturing, gameflow is definitely getting there. About the latter you might want to give some of the corridors along the outer walls some thought, e.g. do you really need them all? I have the feeling the YA one is a bit long and strange, even though I like the stairs at both ends. On the other side of the area, when you pass the SG, TP and then the JP and then GL... this one is also quite long and narrow, and pretty much totally disconnected from the rest of the "action", i.e. the central arena areas. Corridor fighting might be good, not sure though. |
Author: | xiripiti [ 01-25-2014 06:05 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Quake Live ABC_beta03 |
Hi Aeon Make the TP go MH instead to YA seems a bright idea. Make a sort of "bridge" from MH to the other side to get the RA...hmmmm... maybe that is turning things too easy. I`m keeping work on the ground level, not happy with it. Have new ideas, I will show you soon. Maybe overcomplicated but I`m sure u will say something about it. |
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