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Topic Starter Topic: Shader/compiler - How to force a surface to pass through sho

The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: 12-15-2018 08:03 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


How do I force a brush textured with grate texture to pass through weapon shots? I mean every time, not just hope the compiler picks the right surfaceparm for blocking the player movement, but let weapon shots to be passed. How clever is actually the compiler? Does it look to the majority of content flags on a brush? Because grates are generally one-side textured brushes, so only one side of the brush will have a visible texture. Other five might define the brush properties, right?



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I'm the dude!
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PostPosted: 12-15-2018 10:05 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


common/nodraw



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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
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PostPosted: 12-16-2018 03:00 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Okay. And then put another brush with common/playerclip over it? Because nodraw alone will cause me to fall through. Anyway, I need to suspend an item in air to place it down there...



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Warrior
Warrior
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PostPosted: 12-17-2018 02:30 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


CZghost, +1, I'm usually marking the whole brush with common\nodraw, and then the only, "front" side, with visible texture. Clip brush is nesessary, ofc. But I've heard about some Q3A bots problems with a suspended items, so maybe it'd be better to make one more little square brush (common\weaponclip) and to put this item upon it to prevent item's falling. I had a similar task recently - MH had to lie on a surface, which one can shoot through (from below, like it was done here). :)




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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: 12-17-2018 10:33 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I've never heard of that issue. From what I know, playerclip blocks player entity movement only. It should block also item entities movement, not just player, but it's not true at all, items fall through :( How unfortunate. But why would bots have issue with suspended items?



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Warrior
Warrior
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PostPosted: 12-19-2018 01:45 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


CZghost, I dunno, I've just read about it long ago, maybe it's actual only for Q3A, but.. we are talking about Q3A, right? ))
imho, there's nothing surprising - texture properties are just divided to behave differently with different entities, it's nice and logical, that playerclip blocks only players (and it's AMAZING that botclips blocks only bots, btw! :D ). so, you can make whatever you want.
weapclip worked? )




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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: 12-19-2018 04:14 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Maybe it's compiler specific, or it was an issue in older version of the game (not with current version). Because otherwise the bots wouldn't go for Yellow Armor in DM17, if there were issues with items suspended in air. Maybe it's a lie and actually someone's dumb theory, just written down to start a discussion, never actually observed and confirmed...



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Gibblet
Gibblet
Joined: 15 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: 02-14-2019 11:36 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Well, if you want to pass through weapon shots, then you should use PLAYER CLIP.
All textures was named that way to easy understanding. But you're doing it wrong. If you want to suspend an item in air then just go to Entities (hotkey N) and there checkbox "suspended" :sly:




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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: 02-15-2019 08:53 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


MegaHells wrote:
Well, if you want to pass through weapon shots, then you should use PLAYER CLIP.
All textures was named that way to easy understanding. But you're doing it wrong. If you want to suspend an item in air then just go to Entities (hotkey N) and there checkbox "suspended" :sly:

I know, both of these. You don't really understand written English, do you? I asked if there is a way to force a compiler to use player clip flags for an entire brush surface if there is a majority of player clip texture on that brush (typically one side of brush with visible texture, others are invisible. I experienced an issue with player clip not used few times, when the only one visible texture took over and replaced the player clip flags. Each time the compiler took a random brush side texture and applied its content flags to entire brush. Not okay. I guess it was fixed in later version of q3map2, but it was frustrating.

Also, there is an issue that items placed in map will fall through player clipped surfaces, whereas it shouldn't, so you really need to suspend them in air, as a kind of a workaround. I've never observed an issue that a bot would avoid that item because it's suspended. I guess that it may happen sometimes, not always. There is no workaround around this. The really small weapon clip brush isn't actually much help, because yes, it will stop item from falling through, but it also creates a one little spot where it creates a hitbox for weapon shots. I understand that it's pretty small, but what if you accidentally shoot into that spot right under you with rocket (shooting at an enemy below you)? That's not very good workaround then...

Anyway, thanks for feedback...



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I'm the dude!
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PostPosted: 02-16-2019 04:45 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Surface parameters work as a volume as defined by the brush. They can't have two conflicting sets of parameters. A surface can either be player clipped or no clipped. By marking a brush with both, the compiler randomly picks one of the surfaces to use across the entire brush.



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Gibblet
Gibblet
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PostPosted: 02-17-2019 03:24 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Well, i just answered some of your question :) It seems questions just changed and now they are contradictory. But why don't you use the checkbox "suspended" in Entities?? Items SHOULD fall, it's a physics of Q3 engine (if you're not gonna mess up with "gravity"). And small remark, very small brush on a big map it's a bad idea. At least it's creates alot of additional vis-portals and may be reason of leak (not just "hitbox")




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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: 02-17-2019 06:24 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


MegaHells wrote:
Well, i just answered some of your question :) It seems questions just changed and now they are contradictory. But why don't you use the checkbox "suspended" in Entities?? Items SHOULD fall, it's a physics of Q3 engine (if you're not gonna mess up with "gravity"). And small remark, very small brush on a big map it's a bad idea. At least it's creates alot of additional vis-portals and may be reason of leak (not just "hitbox")

I guess you completely miss he point. I told the exact opposite, that I had to tick that checkbox as a workaround, I just don't understand why items fall through player clipped surfaces. I know they're supposed to fall to ground. But in case of player clip, that ground is actually the player clip. It serves no good if your intention is to place an item on a grate only to find out it fell through that grate into the void! The grate is player clipped surface, but it is solid enough to hold items, just not solid enough to block weapon shots and missiles. So why should items fall through? I mean, it should fall, but the grate should be able to hold them. That was my point.

As with the small brushes, I have to agree with you. It makes so much additional issues rather than actually helping.



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Mercenary
Mercenary
Joined: 15 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: 02-20-2019 06:34 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I personally hate grates you can shoot through.
Because it makes it impossible to rocketjump from the grate, or land any rockets in front of the opponents feet standing on the grate.

So I made this superb infographic: :D

Image



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Gibblet
Gibblet
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PostPosted: 02-22-2019 12:10 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


In Q3 we don't have many items to fall through. Only weapons from other players and meat(gibs)) (for baseq3) But these cases are completely random. All other cases that Q3engine allow can be solved by "clips". Railgun on the map is not actually an item but more likely Entities. It's a spawnpoint for Railgun that has been marked with 3D model of Railgun :) In GTKRadiant some special textures (like grates) have white frame in texture browser (if i remember correctly). White frame means shader. And shader itself has ability to change physical characteristics of brush. Shaders should be used in their own proper way.




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Gibblet
Gibblet
Joined: 15 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: 02-22-2019 12:19 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


sst13 wrote:
Because it makes it impossible to rocketjump from the grate, or land any rockets in front of the opponents feet standing on the grate.

I played very good maps for Defrag that uses these features :cool:




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