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Topic Starter Topic: Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Alpha 4)

Cool #9
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PostPosted: 10-28-2011 01:08 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yeah I expected it would stand more out in a singular screenshot than when moving through the map. Maybe it's the added effect of the invulnerability in the background, which is purple and it kind of amplifies the effect of multiple colors being everywhere.




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Elite
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PostPosted: 10-30-2011 06:04 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Looks pretty good, although I think the architecture is a bit bland. Somehow, red snakes conjures up a bit more to me than what is there. Granted... haven't played it yet so maybe I shouldn't say anything. I don't find the yellow-purple-green colours in that shot to be particularly clashy... when shall a beta be out?




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 10-30-2011 06:41 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


mrd wrote:
Looks pretty good, although I think the architecture is a bit bland. Somehow, red snakes conjures up a bit more to me than what is there. Granted... haven't played it yet so maybe I shouldn't say anything. I don't find the yellow-purple-green colours in that shot to be particularly clashy... when shall a beta be out?

I intended on waiting for a response from DaEngineer regarding the tree model issues, but I`m getting the feeling that he might be very busy, so unless I unexpectedly receive a response, I might go ahead and post a beta tommorow. I might also receive more globalized feedback this way as well, not saying that Engineer`s advice is unwanted.

I hope he is okay with that. :)



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 10-30-2011 08:53 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Well, I decided to go ahead and post the beta now. I`ll be leaving on a 10-hour trip tommorow, so I`ll post it now in hopes that I`ll get some responses by the time I get back. Again I hope DaEngineer is okay with this.

Download Beta 1: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27277779/pasdm1_b1.zip

Changelog:

- Established visuals.

- Added falling sounds for fog of death.

- Added a second button that also activates the crusher, but also has a viewing
screen which allows you to see someone going for RA, as otherwise the crusher
is obscured behind the walls.

- Atmospheric sounds added.

- Water in main room replaced with fog, teleporter and it`s respective destination
have been removed and a jump pad leading up to the invulnerability hatch has
been added where the teleporter destination was.

- Slightly widened the hallway next to the RG, added some CG belt ammo.

- Bridge in the LG room is now a sloped platform which can`t be walked under.

- Fixed issue with crusher not killing players instantly. (hopefully... :p)

- LG platform has been changed to not have it`s own ceiling anymore. Column
extended for cover. Floor is grated so you can damage someone from below
with a hitscan weapon like LG or RG.

- Hint brush placement for FPS optimization. Max r_speeds peak around 16,000
traingles.

- Numerous other things.

All credits for custom textures and models not owned by me in the readme. And ofc credit to DaEngineer for the tree models. :)



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-06-2011 01:04 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Download Beta 2: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27277779/pasdm1_b2.zip



Changelog:

- New, more contrasting skybox from ra3map7. (The Houses of Infliction)

- Removed the Persian rugs in favor of metallic flooring in places.

- More atmospheric sounds added, including some flame sounds that I forgot to
add for Beta 1.

- Reduced the contrast and saturation of several green-colored objects. Green
lighting has either been toned down or removed.

- Clipped the rocky GL tunnel.

- Re-clipped the trees.

- Several other clipping adjustments made.

- Some minor brushwork and texture fixes.

- Tree model issues fixed, much thanks to the MuffinMan.



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surfaceparm nomarks
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PostPosted: 11-06-2011 02:30 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I like it better now! The trees really add a lot to it and the new sky works pretty well. You should check the clipping around you archways again (noticed it at the LG, should check the others too).
I'm not very keen on how you tweaked the colors of your banners. You kinda killed their contrast.



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-06-2011 11:36 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'd consider using texture blending with the terrain. It's a bit of a pain in the ass to get right but the results are worth it. It involves getting a few similar ground textures though. I'd also whack some phong shading on it. I can help you out with it if you're interested.

I think that the green in the item spawn shaders could do with a bit of a glow so they stand out a bit more. It looks especially dull under the YA on that dirt floor.

There's some visible caulk further up in that big ass tower above SG. Even though it's seemingly inaccessible, it isn't. There were a couple of other places with visible caulk that I can't remember right now.

Some snakes of some sort (replace the statue with a snake statue?/red snake textures on some walls?/item spawn points with a snake design?) would make the map name much more appropriate since right now it seems completely unrelated. Yeah you can argue the situation with Steel Rats but I still maintain a map name should have something to do with the actual map.

You should rename all shaders you're using from other maps to your own naming conventions as there's the chance that it ends up conflicting with the original maps.

Otherwise I like the changes. A really good color selection going on there - it's easy on the eyes and has a good feel about it. The sky and sky light change is a definite improvement.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-06-2011 03:50 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Experimenting a bit with terrain blending, using Sock's tutorial as a reference.

So I got two separate shaders from Sock's tutorial, carefully designed the brushes so the vertexes connect perfectly, etc. then doing the "pole" trick that everyone loves to use. But the game doesn't agree with me: (don't mind the the fullbright screenie, it was a quick q3map2 -meta compile :P) All poles are stuck where the vertexes meet, as per the tutorial.



Note that right now I'm only focusing on blending that middle texture with the inside texture. The brown dirt outside is something I'll work on adjusting for it's own blending shaders later on after I get this issue cleared.



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Old Skool'
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PostPosted: 11-06-2011 05:55 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I can't tell from your screenshot, but your terrain is angled right? It doesn't work if it's flat. (afaik)




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-06-2011 06:42 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Fjoggs wrote:
I can't tell from your screenshot, but your terrain is angled right? It doesn't work if it's flat. (afaik)

It`s flat. Is there a way to achieve a similar effect, though, with non-angular terrain?



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-07-2011 02:39 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hm I thought it was only possible if you have some gradient in there. Meaning not only the 100% alpha texture but also e.g. the 50%. Isn't 100% meaning totally opaque?




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I'm the dude!
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PostPosted: 11-07-2011 07:11 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Fjoggs wrote:
I can't tell from your screenshot, but your terrain is angled right? It doesn't work if it's flat. (afaik)


Not necessarily. Dotproduct terrain uses the surface normal to calculate vertex alpha values, so if you have a dp shader alone you would be correct. But if you are using alphaMod brushes (either by themselves or in conjunction with dp) then you can explicitly set vertex alpha values to the vertexes.

The vertexes need to be completely enveloped by the alphaMod brush's volume. You don't necessarily have to use poles, a single strip can be used if convenient to totally envelope a series of vertexes. 100% is usually the default state (opaque), you probably want to use some other value like 0%.



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The Illuminated
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PostPosted: 11-07-2011 09:08 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


EmeraldTiger wrote:
Experimenting a bit with terrain blending, using Sock's tutorial as a reference.

So I got two separate shaders from Sock's tutorial, carefully designed the brushes so the vertexes connect perfectly, etc. then doing the "pole" trick that everyone loves to use. But the game doesn't agree with me: (don't mind the the fullbright screenie, it was a quick q3map2 -meta compile :P) All poles are stuck where the vertexes meet, as per the tutorial.


Did you get any of my sample maps to work/compile? Did you setup the alpha blending shaders? Are you using a version of Q3map2 that supports alpha brushes? Maybe post your shaders as well so people can see what you are doing.



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-07-2011 09:43 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Use NetRadiant's q3map2 and if you followed the tutorial properly, it'll work :)




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-07-2011 07:44 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I compiled Sock's terrain2_soc9.map as a test and a guide (since it is the last step besides the added decor), though when it compiles it doesn't look as smooth as on Sock's site. The "middle" strip looks just like grass and gravel rather than a combo of sand and grass. Which is strange, as I'm using q3map2. Maybe my version just doesn't support alpha brushes, but I`m not sure how to check what version I have. (My BSP menu gives q3map2 compile options, not q3map - so I`m a little confused)

Screenie:
Image
(This is the terrain2_soc9.map)



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-07-2011 10:31 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


EmeraldTiger wrote:
I compiled Sock's terrain2_soc9.map as a test and a guide (since it is the last step besides the added decor), though when it compiles it doesn't look as smooth as on Sock's site. The "middle" strip looks just like grass and gravel rather than a combo of sand and grass. Which is strange, as I'm using q3map2. Maybe my version just doesn't support alpha brushes, but I`m not sure how to check what version I have. (My BSP menu gives q3map2 compile options, not q3map - so I`m a little confused)

Screenie:
Image
(This is the terrain2_soc9.map)


That's not a case of not 'as smooth as on Sock's site', that's just plain unblended. Compile it with NetRadiant.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-08-2011 06:13 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Are you sure you're using the latest q3map2? If you use Radiant 1.4 you'll definitely have to update q3map2 before you get the effect. You can see which version you use if you do a meta compile in radiant, press n -> tab to console -> scroll through the dialog. Or maybe the shaders aren't being read correctly?




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-08-2011 07:17 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I use v2.5.11. q3a.ath.cx says it is the latest, but I could be wrong.



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I'm the dude!
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PostPosted: 11-09-2011 07:24 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That's old. 2.5.16 is the latest official version. Download is in my signature.



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-11-2011 09:55 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Good news everyone!

Domain of Red Snakes is now available as Map of the Week on #uscpmpickup. If you would like to test it online with other people, add up for motw and have fun!

Also I should note that the map will be re-branded with a new name in the next release. From RC1 onwards it will be called "Dynasty". I made this change due to the suggestions of people here, and while the old name was nice and original, it agreeably had little to do with the map in question. This new name suits the "royal gold castle" theme more imo, and since many people use full names as opposed to filenames to refer to maps, this should be easier to remember. :p



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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 11-12-2011 02:11 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Played beta 2. I really like the map. You've done some interesting things with the geometry and made some pleasing set pieces. The hole in the wall with the tree behind the RA is especially cool.

There's two things that struck me as odd though. First, the shallow layer of water next to the MH will hurt you if you get into it. I think it's not clear enough that the water hurts you. In fact, I don't think it should hurt you at all. The water will slow down your movements, so you're an easier target. Having the water hurt you doesn't seem to have a real purpose.

The second thing is the creaking sound effect. Where does it originate from? I expected to find some heavy swinging object somewhere, but there wasn't. If it's supposed to be just atmospheric sound then you may want to lower the frequency with which it plays. Also, you could possibly take the original sound and reduce it's volume a bit in an audio editing program. Maybe use a pitch shift as well to create two or three variations on the sound at different pitches, which makes the complete effect far more natural.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-12-2011 09:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thank you for your feedback.

I am not sure what you mean by "creaking sound", though. There is a "windy" sound that permeates almost the entire map, (wherever the sky can be seen) some water sounds for the slime, a choir at quad, screeching noises, and the flames near RG. If it is the windy sound that you`re referring to, then I will tone it down a bit in the next release.

There`s also an issue someone reported regarding a strange "hitbeep" sound that occurs sporadically in the map. It`s the kind of sound that would usually be associated with a missing sound file, although I can`t recall having any bad directories / paths. This will be looked into as well, though.



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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 11-12-2011 01:00 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


yeah i heard the hit beep as well.
And with "creaking sound" I probably mean what you are refering to as "screeching noises"




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-15-2011 04:41 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Well, I finally got the terrain blending to work. (albeit in an unexpected, accidental fashion) It looks pretty nice, thanks for the suggestion MuffinMan, and thanks for the help everyone.

I`m wanting to go back and put that Wrack statue in. In Radiant he looks like a Startrooper from Star Wars, with an all-white body but a black face. In-game he is all black. DaEngineer mentioned something about copying UV coordinates.

My main concern though is that doing UV unwrapping completely messes up the textures on the model, up to the point that you can`t even get it back to looking perfect. Is there a way to get my new skin to show up in-game without having to re-do all the texture mapping?



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-16-2011 09:37 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Don't know where you got your ranger model from, but here's one I just sorted out: ranger_statue.ase. Rename it to wrack_statue.ase, alter accordingly in your map, open it in a text editor and replace (Ctrl+H) the 2 map names with your own shaders and save. Like this:

*MAP_NAME "models/players/ranger/ranger_statue" ->
*MAP_NAME "models/players/ranger/wrack_statue"

*MAP_NAME "models/players/ranger/ranger_h_statue" ->
*MAP_NAME "models/players/ranger/wrack_h_statue"

See if that works for you.

Edit: ah damn, I just remembered that the mesh needs to be moved closer to the origin. You'll just need to move the misc_model accordingly.

I agree with Eraser on the screaching sound. That's meant for swinging pendulums (ie: in Demon Keep) and isn't really sensible to use for other things (yeah yeah, I know ShadoW had it in one of his maps, doesn't prevent it from being a strange sound to use anyway). I also heard the missing sound hit beep thing but I thought it was my mod going ape shit on me again. It seems to happen around the RL/shards by accel pad to Quad, but will only happen at random times it seems.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-17-2011 01:40 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Download Release Candidate 1: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27277779/pasdm1_rc1.zip

Changelog:

- Renamed map from "Domain of Red Snakes" to "Dynasty".

- Reworked the terrain at YA to use terrain blending.

- Some more clipping adjustments.

- Fixed some visible caulk areas, albeit only reachable by rocket jumping or
spectating.

- Slightly lightened the item spawn markers.

- Fixed (hopefully) possible shader conflict issues.

Note about the hitbeep noises:

I noticed that these hitbeep noises seem to originate from wherever a falling sound trigger is linked to a trigger_multiple, as with the case of fog of death. The falling sounds work correctly, but it seems they also have the side effect of making these hitbeep sounds for who knows what reason. I checked all of the target_speakers in the map and have not found any bad paths / directories. This issue seems to be a mystery, folks...

Note about the plant shaders:

When I was attempting to move some of Sock's shaders over to my snakes shader file to prevent conflicts, etc. I learned that apparently his shaders use "back" textures for double-sided plants for purposes like lighting, etc. and while they work fine in my main folder, when I copy over to the test folder I have, they wouldn't show up. So I made copies of the original images with _back added as a suffix, thinking this would solve the problem. Well, one side of the shader will show up correctly with transparency and all, but the other side is just a still image with no transparency at all. The only solution I had was to copy over the original shaders that powered them - plants_soc and terblend_soc. This solved the problem, but I fear there may be a possibility of conflicts happening nonetheless.

Right now those two shader files are renamed to plants_soc_snakes.shader and terblend_soc_snakes.shader. Will this be enough to solve shader conflicts or will I need to actually go inside the shader files and rename everything? Right now things are kind of a mess... hopefully I can get that sorted out.

Enjoy!



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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 11-17-2011 01:52 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


EmeraldTiger wrote:
Note about the hitbeep noises:

I noticed that these hitbeep noises seem to originate from wherever a falling sound trigger is linked to a trigger_multiple, as with the case of fog of death. The falling sounds work correctly, but it seems they also have the side effect of making these hitbeep sounds for who knows what reason. I checked all of the target_speakers in the map and have not found any bad paths / directories. This issue seems to be a mystery, folks...


Try setting the "activator" spawnflag for those target_speakers.
I expect the beep is played when a player falls into a void. It's probably caused by the use of the * in the noise key. Using the "activator" spawnflag makes sure that only the one triggering the target_speaker will hear the sound, and the game probably only properly resolves the * for the activator.

I think the activator spawnflag is also set for such target_speakers in the q3dm17sample map.


edit:
Just saw in the source code that the ACTIVATOR spawnflag is forced when * is the first character in your noise key. You could still try manually enabling the spawnflag but I'm starting to doubt if it'll work.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-19-2011 12:29 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yup, the activator spawnflag was set when I created the target_speakers. I guess it will forever remain one of the many mysteries of life... :)

The final (hopefully hehe) version is now up:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27277779/pasdm1.zip

Not much changed from the RC, just an intermission camera and the dropping of the RC1 tag. Thank you very much everyone for helping me with the map and making it into what it is today. I plan on submitting it to the FragLove team as well as LvL. Maybe sometime we can get a match together. :)



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-19-2011 07:12 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hm, I don't have Q3A on my pc atm but I really would like to see how the terrain blending turned out. Could you make a screenie of that?




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-19-2011 02:01 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Bliccer wrote:
Hm, I don't have Q3A on my pc atm but I really would like to see how the terrain blending turned out. Could you make a screenie of that?

Here you go: :)



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-20-2011 07:09 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Looks sweet. Dunno if the lighting is too dark for playing. Maybe you can also add terrainblending on grass/trunk?




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-20-2011 01:09 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thanks man. The screenshot is a bit dark due to how the game messes with contrast / brightness when screenshots are taken... it is a bit brighter in-game.



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-21-2011 01:24 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It has been submitted and approved on LvL. If you have the time please consider writing a review - I'd love to hear your input (good or bad)



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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 11-21-2011 03:02 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Did you fix the bleep sound issue? If not, then I'm afraid that it might prevent this map from becoming real successful, because it's quite annoying and even hinders gameplay. You'd be better off to remove the offending target_speakers then.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 11-21-2011 02:22 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
Did you fix the bleep sound issue? If not, then I'm afraid that it might prevent this map from becoming real successful, because it's quite annoying and even hinders gameplay. You'd be better off to remove the offending target_speakers then.

Hmm... unfortunately they did make it into the final version, but I can remove them very quickly and re-send it to Tig. I was sort of stuck in between which was better: falling sounds and some bleep sound, or no bleep sound but no falling sounds. When I think about it now, though, having no falling sounds is a minor sacrifice and would probably be for the best.

Hopefully, in the future, though, I can figure out why they happened in the first place.



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