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Topic Starter Topic: q3brk4 - Alpha 1
bork[e]
The Borked One
The Borked One
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: 02-11-2005 04:45 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Small FFA map good for about 3 - 5 players. No Textures/Lights atm, sorry for that but b/c of work/school I have little time for this kinda stuff now. :( All I'm worried with for the first Alpha is item/weapon placement and Gameplay. No screens either, I doubt anyone cares to see the notex spammed through a thread.

Weapons:
1 RL
1 LG
1 SG

Items
1 RA
1 QD
Shards, few healths etc.

http://www.infosprite.com/members/sky_hawk/q3brk4.rar
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Fjoggs
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PostPosted: 02-11-2005 04:55 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Before I try it out: Did you texture it with notex? That's like pouring acid in our eyes :P
Instead just press "I" and use a concrete texture. When you'r gonna detail it, just "I" again and use common/caulk. In an alpha, you don't care about minor stuff like visible textures, overdraw etc since it doesnt matter when the r_speeds is like 10 :p
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bork[e]
The Borked One
The Borked One
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: 02-11-2005 05:04 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yeah actually it is all notex, I know it sucks but I lost my internet at the house and can only upload things here at work. Thought I had all that bridge texture but guess I zipped the wrong file. (Noticed that during the upload)

Just give it a fast run through and you can hold me responsible for any damages to your eyes.
 :icon26:
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Fjoggs
Old Skool'
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PostPosted: 02-11-2005 05:06 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm gonna sue you'r sloppy ass! :p

Gonna check it tomorrow, feel it's time for bed. ;)
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bork[e]
The Borked One
The Borked One
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PostPosted: 02-11-2005 05:16 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Kaziganthe wrote:
Lot better than the other alphas :P ('cept for the notex)


Lets not discuses all those please. :icon32:

One aspect of the map I was worried with was the hallway where the LG and the shards sit, I didn't think it was much out of the way but there is only two way in/out of that area. I couldn't find a decent way to make more so I just left it as is, well that be a problem you think?

As for the item suggestions I'll see what I can whip out, I might through that plasma down in the hallway leading upstairs behind that slab in the middle you don't like maybe...

The reason for the slab is..well, I was screwing around with patches and all and the map came from that. I took it out once and didn't like that area being as open without it, I'll see if I can make it smaller where you can jump to access it instead of using stairs/jps.


Thx - :icon14:
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bork[e]
The Borked One
The Borked One
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PostPosted: 03-01-2005 10:55 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Kaziganthe - or anyone else that would know...

That center area you where talking about, I basically turned it upside down. Instead of having a higher level accessible only by jump pads and stairs, I made it where there are 4 separate sets of stairs connecting to only one square brush that holds a MH. In-between these 4 stairs are bevels that round of the edges so it will not look so choppy and square. At the bottom of these bevels is a diamond shaped brush that connect to the lower step only. The only problem here I have is that I can walk right through the bevel, I have many other bevels and patch-meshes in the level that I can not walk through so I’m lost here.

There are a few other areas that I can either walk through or fall through, and this only happened once I started to texture the brushes…any ideas?

Btw, if I made no sense in that first paragraph here is a simpler question; what enables you to fall through or walk through objects in a map?
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Pext
Who's that man, Mommy?
Who's that man, Mommy?
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PostPosted: 03-01-2005 11:12 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


yay - an alpha *dloads*
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bork[e]
The Borked One
The Borked One
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PostPosted: 03-01-2005 11:50 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Pext wrote:
yay - an alpha *dloads*


:icon19:

No Tex everywhere...sorry :icon32:

Got a new version coming out in a few days...compared to others though not much to look forward to, I'm still learning... :icon26:
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Pext
Who's that man, Mommy?
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PostPosted: 03-01-2005 12:40 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


so - had a short run through it. here are the problems as i see them - illustraded by a layout scetch (some proportions are wrong):

Image

  1. the most obvious error
    you made is the size. there is a LOT to walk on plain surfaces on this map. allways keep in mind that horizontal movement is in general rather boring. furthermore there is often quite a bit to walk until you actually have to change your direction. again, this is boring for a player in most occasions. sizes like this are ok in a rocket arena map - as there is constant rocketjump action - but not suitable for team maps.
    areas where the stretch is way to much are marked in yellow.
  2. connectivity(1):
    on the layout plan above i defined 4 zones of the map, each illustrated in a different colour. i enumerated the connections between these zones to display the connectivity.
    as you can see, the blue and the red zones have a connectivity of 2. this means that the player movement will become predictable. this makes theses zones a danger to enter. it is even more bad as in both cases, both connections are visible and surveyable from one spot. such loops are, if not balanced properly, a thing to avoid.
    balancing can be done by rewarding the player with an important item.
    additionally in the red zone there is way to much open space until you can reach cover again. there is no chance to avoid beeing hit when leaving it. prevent this by reducing the time a player needs to reach the next protected situation.
  3. connectivity(2):
    this is a classic room-corridor-room map, with one real room and many semi-rooms. the most interresting area is of course the area around the pillar as this is the area presenting the highest number of choides to the player - the area with the highest connectivity and additionally the moste vertical action.
  4. connectivity(3):
    the third problem is diplayed by the purple line: this line represents the geomatric partition of the map. these two areas are only connected by one room - and there is no cover during a crossing.
  5. connectivity(4):
    if we look at the topoligical partition we realize that there is the central room and 3 sourrounding areas, two of them beeing loops. these 3 outer zones are not connected in any way!
    furthermore, two of them are loops making the map a bit binary : you're either in the central room or in the upper, green part. the connectivity between these two parts is 4.
    coming from the central room it is relatively interresting, as the choices are easily accessable but not to close to each other.
    looking at the upper area however we realize that this is just a chain of connections. additionally you won't see many players going from the semi-room next to green(1) and green(2) to either connection green(3)or(4). put in simple words: linear gameplay. boring.
  6. gameflow(1)
    we face yet another problem if we look at the gameflow of the map. as we allready stated there are only two real areas of the map - geometrical and topological. to make this even worse you are amost pushed out of the upper area. this is caused by the problems , the three connections leading upwards face.
    at first we look at green(4) - firstly the way up there is extremely long and secondly there is a marginal reward for it: the shotgun, a weapon that should be placed as a near-spawn pickup.
    next green(1) - this one is in an covered but unattractive corner of the central room. the cover is ok but there's just not much to get once you go up, except the rocketlauncher - and then you end up in the central room again.
    finally blue(1) - it takes to long on the one hand and on the other hand leads to a place that is allready reachable by green(1). no much of a reward using this one either.
  7. gameflow(2):
    some of the connections are to several reasons pushing the player into one direction. and i'm not talking of the ones that do this because of simple game physics... but i think the advices i gave above are allready sufficient at this point.



so... what should you do now?
do the map again, keeping the ideas you had before but making it more diverse and less linear/binary. i'd recommend you to add a third area. a good way to connect areas that are on the same hight level is to make them higher, adding possibly a 3rd or 2.5th level and make them overlap each other a bit at the places where you want connections. you could possibly arrange them as you would do with tomato slices - but there are many other possibilities.

[edit]huh... i just realized the direction of the green arrows is not illustrating anything. just forget about them :smirk:
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TempSonicClang
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PostPosted: 03-01-2005 12:53 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Holy crap pext, I wish I had that kind of vision when designing levels. Maybe that's why I don't do level editing. :D



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Fjoggs
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PostPosted: 03-01-2005 01:36 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It'll come if you play the game more. Especially 1on1 ;)
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Pext
Who's that man, Mommy?
Who's that man, Mommy?
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PostPosted: 03-01-2005 01:44 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


seriously - most of it comes from thinking. actually i only played half a year of RA3 and a bit of tdm. i never was into q3/cpma 1on1.
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bork[e]
The Borked One
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PostPosted: 03-01-2005 02:21 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


TempSonicClang wrote:
Holy crap pext, I wish I had that kind of vision when designing levels. Maybe that's why I don't do level editing. :D


:icon28: Been wondering how long it would take you to come back.
----------------------------------------------------



Pext: Thx allot dude, I don't like reading the "star over" part, guess that’s part of it though...but I'm getting used to it. :icon19: But seriously, as you can tell from the date of the first post this is going quite slow to not even have a second alpha behind it. I just couldn't find what it needed to get it off the ground...

From your illustration let me see if I can tell you what I have in mind when I do start over.

The main area (where the purple line is drawn) I may place more towards the middle of the map, instead of having it off to the side. That should cut down the walking and make it more of a collision area.

I'll probably do away with the orange area (I’m slightly color blind but the area on the bottom right) and place a new 2nd or even 3rd floor where it sits now.

I think it would be cool to have the center area open to both the 2nd and 3rd floor in a few areas, like it is currently leaving the RL room. But I'm not sure if I could pull that off as far as looks go.

Basically I'm thinking of wrapping that second floor around the center area and maybe even adding a 3rd. From the center area I'll have a small hallway that does a few twists and turns and maybe even leads to an underground water hole that leads you back to the center, and a few exits to upper floors...

Maybe if I paint something up someone could host it for me? Like I've said many times I can't access infosprite from work. :icon26:

Thx for the feedback Pext, nice job.




Last edited by bork[e] on 03-01-2005 05:31 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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TempSonicClang
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PostPosted: 03-01-2005 05:11 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Fjoggs wrote:
It'll come if you play the game more. Especially 1on1 ;)


Yeah... I've been playing first person shooters since Wolf 3D. Started seriously playing multiplayer in '97 with Quake. Been playing ever since, and a lot of that time was 1 on 1. I can safely say that if I don't have the skills to make a good DM map by now, I probably never will. :D



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Silicone_Milk
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PostPosted: 03-12-2005 02:55 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I really like this map. Although the textures suck as you already know lol, I like the feel of it.
I found myself, on several occasions ending up going through the same route on the map when there were a few others I could have taken. I see what pext means when he says that the players are generally forced to go in a direction.

Also, when did these forums come back up?! Im so happy I can almost cry.

Since the names of the maps are similar I have to ask: did you do q3brk1? And is this map a more elaborate version of it?

Great job on this map so far. Keep up the good work.


-Once went by Caldiar but I can't log on to that account anymore and the name is taken...-
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bork[e]
The Borked One
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PostPosted: 03-14-2005 09:37 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


um, The only reason why I called it q3brk4 was b/c I had the prev. alphas laying around in that folder. Me being the lazy cunt I am on each "major" change I made I just renamed it with a higher number.

I'm glad you liked it, later on I may do something with it...but for now check out the q3brk2 map. (i'll get the names right one of these days ;) )
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