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Topic: Crescent Beta (final)

Hipshot
This is not Æon!

Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 2181

Posted: 03-07-2009 06:24 PM

FINAL VERSION
http://lvlworld.com/review.php?id=2048

---------------------

Download Beta 2:
http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/crescentbeta2.rar ~8.5MB

BETA 2
Overall, one could say that the flow has increased a lot, it's more tolerant to mistakes, more accessible and have a better, more widespread item layout that forces players to move around more.
Make sure you replace the old beta with the new one, else there will be shader errors.

Change list:

Graphics:
Changed the black tile texture into one more fitting for the overall theme. Removed the reflection.
Added some water plant details on water surface.
Added cracked floor as markers for RA, YA, MH.
Placed more lights around inside areas and towards ceilings to make the light more pleasant - and the level a bit more bright.
Made more textures on details vertex-lit.
Tweaked the brightness of the arch texture, made it more bright. This brings up the texture details more. Looks more like old dirty concrete now, where vegetation have grown but falled off.
Tweaked the lightmap even further, fixing bugs upping resolution.
Tweaked sun and skylight.
Switched vertex version of the TP into a totally white one.
Fixed all sparklies under the terrain water part.
Used the painted blue tile texture as a texture for two inverts inside, makes the insides less white, more colorful.
[None player area = note to self] Switched Q3-concrete into solid black as lightmap blocker. Thus removing the last iD shader (I think).
[None player area] Switched level load texture.

Gameplay:
Added one 25H, next to the PG.
Moved RL-Ammo from corner to the PG.
Moved around following weapons:
Moved PG ~128U closer to the RA (where it is now).
Moved the LG to where the SG was before.
Moved the SG to where the LG was before, but around the corner in front of the TP.
Switched place on GL and RG.
Switched place on YA and RA.
Fixed some clipping errors (due to other changes, new ones MIGHT have occurred but shouldn't have).
Added many more wooden support planks. Everything to make the level more accessible and less punishing when doing mistakes. Some also encourages players to move more around.
Made it much easier to drop down on the TP that leads to the RA (now), with removing the wooden support. However, this stops player from being able to walk over it. It's a trade off, but I think this is for the better - it's kinda impossible to work both solutions in here without redoing the area (...and I won't do that).
Extended the TP-trigger a few units outside of the edges to make players enter them easier.

Problems that still occur:
A few minor sparkle errors.
When using subdivision 0, the patches used in some arches, get gaps between them.
A pretty big error (that occurred with the rebuilt RA (where it is now) room, that I've kinda "worked around" - players could not get out of the water on some places when they were "planar" to the water surface, it was impossible, reproduced the errors on several computers. I've added a slight player clip ramp under the water in that place, that should fix it so it works. However, a player might still need to press jump sometimes when trying to get up there (this is not needed anywhere else in the level). I could never fix the error, in anyway, or understand why it occurred just at that place and nowhere else.

To-do but not needed:
Fix the in some places still untweaked lightmap.

Screens:
Added Beta 2 - Does not express all changes.

Initial Beta 1 - Most items and some graphics are obsolete.

_________________
Q3Map2 2516 -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/q3map_2.5.16_win32_x86.zip
Q3Map2 FS_20g -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/q3map2_fs_20g.rar
GtkRadiant 140 -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/GtkRadiantSetup-1.4.0-Q3RTCWET.exe

Last edited by Hipshot on 05-28-2009 08:41 AM, edited 4 times in total.

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scythe
Commander

Joined: 25 Mar 2002
Posts: 115

Posted: 03-08-2009 12:24 PM

Good looking map, reminiscent of the new Asylum map in Quake Live.

A few notes after a quick playthrough:

-Green water initially made me think "slime" so I thought it would cause damage.

-I may have missed something, but is there any purpose for the stairs behind the red armor? They seem to go nowhere.

-I was able to "shutout" a bot by simply camping the red armor/RL/MH corner. There's probably too much health in that area, and the MH/RA may be too close together.

Nice looking map with good verticality, but the item placement didn't encourage me to roam the map much. It would probably be different playing against a human though.

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g0th-
Insane Quaker

Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 262

Posted: 03-09-2009 08:03 AM

Great map Hipshot. All the colors makes it look really stunning when you move around it. This map has so much atmosphere, it's a shame that can't be seen by the screens.

Textures look great as well. There clean and at the same time holds a lot of detail. Only crit would probably be that they look a bit flat and while that might be a design decision I wonder how it would look with some faked highlights painted in where they fit, but that's just me picking at a small thing after all it's q3 and it looks amazing for that

Didn't played the maps with any bots or so but from what I can tell the layout seems cool and interesting. And I also found your zfight ester egg

_________________
http://www.g0th.se

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v1l3
\kill

$\kill$

Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 923

Posted: 03-11-2009 11:40 PM

It's pretty fun with promode physics enabled...cool map.

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fKd
Immortal

Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 2472

Posted: 03-12-2009 02:09 PM

i like most of the map. the little water pools are located in odd areas.. also they seem to have no reason for even being there.. like how does the water get collected into those areas... some down pipes coming off the roof awnings would not go amiss. but yeah solid as hell man. great style. very clean, great layout. the item issues have already been raised. i like it

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Hipshot
This is not Æon!

Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 2181

Posted: 03-15-2009 03:21 PM

scythe wrote:
Good looking map, reminiscent of the new Asylum map in Quake Live.

A few notes after a quick playthrough:

-Green water initially made me think "slime" so I thought it would cause damage.

-I may have missed something, but is there any purpose for the stairs behind the red armor? They seem to go nowhere.

-I was able to "shutout" a bot by simply camping the red armor/RL/MH corner. There's probably too much health in that area, and the MH/RA may be too close together.

Nice looking map with good verticality, but the item placement didn't encourage me to roam the map much. It would probably be different playing against a human though.

# A bit perhaps, I don't think it's that bad though. If I get more input on this I'll probably change it, you are the only one yet though.
# The other purpose for these stairs is just a way to create another path around that area. Nothing here is very realistic, or logic.
# Play the map with a human, it's pretty different! Even though I manage to get the bot to play pretty good, it's not even near a human in this level.

fKd wrote:
i like most of the map. the little water pools are located in odd areas.. also they seem to have no reason for even being there.. like how does the water get collected into those areas... some down pipes coming off the roof awnings would not go amiss. but yeah solid as hell man. great style. very clean, great layout. the item issues have already been raised. i like it

I quote myself from level makers:
Hipshot wrote:
About the detail, this level has had a much higher detail level once, but I removed a lot of stuff, amongst others sewer entrances for the water, ivy, wall paintings etc. I felt that I wanted to keep the level clean and also one idea with the level is that it's supposed to be a smaller download and lighter on the r_speeds than my previous levels. Looking at the Industrial level, I really feel that I succeeded here.

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12441

Posted: 03-18-2009 06:28 AM

Note: I split off the bottom of this thread into it's own to keep things here on topic. Hipshot, in the process, I inadvertently deleted the topic title and didn't remember what it was initially (whoops), so I changed it to "Crescent Beta". I'm hoping that's what it was initially.

If you're looking for the split topic, I moved it to The Void, here:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=40111

_________________
GtkRadiant | Q3Map2 | Shader Manual

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maz0r
Veteran

Joined: 20 Apr 2004
Posts: 168

Posted: 03-23-2009 04:15 PM

Ok, here we go...

Let's start how awesome this map is. I really, really love the visuals, the flow (excellent work with the planks) and the overall layout. It's tight but moving around is very fun and challenging. But (and there's always a but) I came along some suggestions while trolling around. Maybe they can help to improve the map even more, I don't know

First, item placement:
Like someone already stated, I don't feel good with the current item layout. RA, MH, RL and even Rail are controlled far too easily. And MH being the only valuable item on the bottom floor which can controlled from the RL or Rail spot. Also rushing into this area if the enemy hold it, to steal a weapon or even the RA seems quite impossible.
Another odd spot is the ya. The area around is very great (!) but the item which it holds it almost laughable, at least from the controller's view. Also this place is far too dangerous for just obtaining the ya, because failing the double jump over the wooden bar would result in a tremendous disadvantage and an easy frag for the opponent (see below).
My suggestion:
- Switch YA and RA. This would make the excellent YA area more important and also forces the controlling player to move around the map. This also brings the down player into the position for sneaking a RA or just trying to takeover the RL-area while the foe goes for the RA.
- Then switch GL and Rail. The RG should never be located on the top level, but on the bottom one to prevent camping on it and also giving the down player an advantage. The GL area is also great for some intense fighting and the GL is maybe also not valuable enough.
- Finally you should move the LG around the corner as shown on the upcoming screenshot to bring some distance bestween Rail and LG. Also a switch with PG could be discussed.

Next small issue: Clipping
The map is clipped very well I have to say but as always I found some small but sometimes annoying glitches:

The flow is as already stated very, very smooth. But I came along these issues and ideas:

Regarding the flow, the big water pools can be a huge pain in the ass. While looking awesome they also come nasty, when it comes to fighting. Too often you will bounce your enemy into a pool during rocket fights resulting in an easy frag. I suppose this will get annoying especially for better players so you should consider to disarm some of the bigger one to provide more fighting space. Here are some suggestions:

Maybe adding some more planks or even a small wooden pier would help without ruining the visuals.

Finally I can only say it again: this map just rocks. Which it's speed, tightness, verticalness and flow it reminds me a lot of Aerowalk, which is not a bad thing

Thumbs up Hipshot, judging from a player's view this should be the best map you ever produced for serious and competitive duelling. Keep the great things coming!

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Hipshot
This is not Æon!

Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 2181

Posted: 03-28-2009 12:11 PM

Thanks for your input Mazor. Almost all of this have been worked into Beta 2, not only because of you =) but some things were old stuff that was removed for Beta 1 and now brought back.
Like the idea to have a possible way to jump from RG (where it was) over the SG (where it was) and onto the wooden planks by the stairs (as seen in one of your pics). Jumping here almost feels like another layer and it's a pretty nice jump, feels good! However, when you made the jump (in that direction) you feel that you might want something, I was thinking about adding a few shards there - but it feels so Unreal to add items everywhere just for the sake of adding...

The more safe water area (where the RA is now) is a great improvement, it feels much better having the RA here and also it doesn't feels totaly off when you fall down the water, cause now you can save yourself much easier. I should have moved the RA earlier, I didn't even take the YA myself before, cause when I was stressed I only fell down the water.

The RG and GL idea was not new either, but I was afraid of the move cause I thought the GL would spam the entire level with grenades. And I thought that was worse than having a guy standing by the RG camping up there. However, this also turned out very well, I found that both my friends and myself used the GL much more and I wasn't railed half as much. Actually the entire weapon placement rework was a great up for this level as I feel it.

BETA 2 - See updated first post for link and changelog.

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scythe
Commander

Joined: 25 Mar 2002
Posts: 115

Posted: 03-28-2009 10:55 PM

Just played beta 2, the changes worked out really well. Excellent, refreshing map, looks and plays great.

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v1l3
\kill

$\kill$

Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 923

Posted: 03-29-2009 08:31 PM

The layout is playing REALLY good..minded I'm playing with promode enabled, and the ability to air-strafe around the hallways is very connective..very nice=) I like the added on area where you can bounce on the platforms to make it through to the next level walkway....lines up great.

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maz0r
Veteran

Joined: 20 Apr 2004
Posts: 168

Posted: 03-29-2009 10:46 PM

You're welcome, hipshot.
Glad to hear, that my input helped improving the map a bit. Will for sure test the updated version as soon as possible. Sadly, I'm rather busy currently but I hope I can give it a try during the next few days.
Oh and something I was reminded by the new screenshots: consider removing the rail ammo completely, so you have to go to the more dangerous area again if you need some slugs (this would also correspond with wviperw's Competitive Level Design Guide). If you want to stick with the ammo, move it at least to a less frequently visited spot like the currently empty bottom left corner (judging from your top view level shot).

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Hipshot
This is not Æon!

Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 2181

Posted: 05-28-2009 08:45 AM

Final version (been done a long time now, but now it's also on lvl). Don't remember the small changes, except for that I removed the RG ammo.

http://lvlworld.com/review.php?id=2048

And this is me saying, the level is done, moving forward with a lighter version of Industrial coming up.

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Salinga
Warrior

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 86

Posted: 06-01-2009 12:37 PM

Elite Force conversion is now finished:

http://www.moddb.com/members/salinga/ad ... al-version

I can only recommend using ModDB to host maps. It's very easy to upload files there.

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AEon
Boink!

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4493

Posted: 08-13-2009 12:28 PM

Just downloaded your map yesterday... even though I don't really play 1on1 this map was fun. I like all the wooden ledges / planks that just seem to keep you from falling. And I am assuming quite a few clever jumps are possible, also in vquake though?

I very much like the sandstone-ish textures, and the Mediterranean design, which is why I may have to "borrow" them (the textures that is) at some point Kind of a shame that some of the nice detail, actually requires the player to look up, something, well a least I, rarely do when playing.

Note: Alas on my ATi X800 I see sparklies in 4 or 5 areas, and Phobos really seems to have problems getting out of the water near the red armor.

Good job... now build some more maps

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Quake3World.com | Forum Index | Level Editing & Modeling

It's pretty fun with promode physics enabled...cool map.

Just played beta 2, the changes worked out really well. Excellent, refreshing map, looks and plays great.

The layout is playing REALLY good..minded I'm playing with promode enabled, and the ability to air-strafe around the hallways is very connective..very nice=) I like the added on area where you can bounce on the platforms to make it through to the next level walkway....lines up great.

Final version (been done a long time now, but now it's also on lvl). Don't remember the small changes, except for that I removed the RG ammo.http://lvlworld.com/review.php?id=2048And this is me saying, the level is done, moving forward with a lighter version of Industrial coming up.

Elite Force conversion is now finished:http://www.moddb.com/members/salinga/ad ... al-versionI can only recommend using ModDB to host maps. It's very easy to upload files there.

Final version (been done a long time now, but now it's also on lvl). Don't remember the small changes, except for that I removed the RG ammo.

http://lvlworld.com/review.php?id=2048

And this is me saying, the level is done, moving forward with a lighter version of Industrial coming up.

Elite Force conversion is now finished:

http://www.moddb.com/members/salinga/ad ... al-version

I can only recommend using ModDB to host maps. It's very easy to upload files there.