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Topic Starter Topic: ct3tourney2
cityy
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PostPosted: 03-31-2010 12:51 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hey everybody.

I started to work on a small tourney/ffa map.

Download: http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ct3tourney2_a1/ct3tourney2_a1.zip



I would like to know what you guys think about the layout - I am not sure about the RL area and the corridors arround the SG and is it too open?

Thanks, cityy.



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PostPosted: 04-01-2010 04:53 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Played it some 20 min with 2 bots.

Annoying that I can fall down between the planks =)
And I really didn't think it was too open, but I enjoy more open maps these days, quake live damaged I guess...



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cityy
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PostPosted: 05-03-2010 09:59 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hm, Hipshot was the only one who replied but I continued working on this level. :p

Grab beta 2 here: http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ct3tourney2_beta/ct3tourney2_beta2.zip

Mostly using textures by Hipshot but also some from method's yan_test(q4) ... also used 1 from kingpin - forgott to mention that in the readme. Gonna be added.



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Last edited by cityy on 05-03-2010 10:33 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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roughrider
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PostPosted: 05-03-2010 10:13 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Interesting looking screenies. Will grab this one too and run around in it a bit.



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Theftbot
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PostPosted: 05-03-2010 10:48 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Nice skybox, and env.

One thing:-slow dont the rain by 4 times
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tehSandwich
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PostPosted: 05-03-2010 11:20 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


So far, it looks very good! :up:

However, it currently runs very badly in some spots.

You probably need to invest into some vis blockers since both large rooms can see each other.

Clipping also needs some work.


I don't know why there are mirrors in the jump pad but I'm sure that 95% of the time, the player will never see them.


That place is particularly boring. You should try adding some stuff there to make it less boring.
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roughrider
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PostPosted: 05-03-2010 11:36 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That last screeny looks familiar...



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PostPosted: 05-03-2010 12:05 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


tehSandwich wrote:
However, it currently runs very badly in some spots.


I agree that the r_speeds are pretty high here, mostly because of the bricks and some piping I think. And it could be vised better...
But I think your low FPS is because of your hardware? ~50 is really low... I don't get any frame drops at all and are at a stable 125 all the time.



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deqer
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PostPosted: 05-03-2010 04:09 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The map looks nice. I like the textures, lighting, shadows, and layout. I like the rain, and the bounce pads too.

I was unable to play it professionally against an opponent. However, I still have a bit of feedback to provide.













Last edited by AEon on 05-04-2010 12:04 PM, edited 1 time in total.Reason: lvlshot'ed those images.
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fKd
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PostPosted: 05-03-2010 04:53 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


far out cityy! really nice looking stuff! will download and play after work.
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Noruen
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PostPosted: 05-04-2010 12:08 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That is outstanding! Great graphic :) I will try it.
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Anthem
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PostPosted: 05-04-2010 02:25 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I think you should take away the lower teleport (that does not fit in the theme of the map) and replace it with the fan on the upper level. This would successfully solve one problem deqer found with the map: the upper level seems to end quite abruptly. If there was a teleport on the upper level, there would be more meaning to go up there since it also leads to another part of the map.



The teleporting location could also be changed to benefit this long, boring hallway that tehSandwich noted.



On a side note, I like the water you used. Water is very useful for gameplay because it helps the players hear each other. The game is no fun if you can't run into someone frequently.

The design is nice. I really like the sky, rain and thunder.

I would add ambient sounds to the fans.

To me, you have too many of those square lights. I feel that it detracts from the overall appearance of the map.

I enjoyed this map; keep up the great work. :)



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Last edited by Anthem on 05-05-2010 11:00 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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fKd
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PostPosted: 05-04-2010 03:18 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


i liked the map, but it was dipping right down to like 35 fps... thats worse than my maps! you really need to look into performance.
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dONKEY
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PostPosted: 05-04-2010 06:28 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Performance is OK for me. I guess it's the rain shader causing issues for people. Seeing as you are going for realism...tiny nitpick, window frames are recessed, they don't stand proud of walls.
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cityy
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PostPosted: 05-04-2010 06:36 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thanks, for the huge amount of feedback guys! I'm gonna look into it. :)

Edit:
@deqer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlE_jjZxg4U That jump works fine for me!?



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tehSandwich
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PostPosted: 05-04-2010 07:34 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


dONKEY wrote:
Performance is OK for me. I guess it's the rain shader causing issues for people. [...]


I have experimented with some of the settings and I found out that it's not even the rain shader that's doing most of the lag, it's the useless jump pad mirrors!
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cityy
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PostPosted: 05-04-2010 07:43 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Removed the mirrors already... also removed some of the broken bricks. r_speeds dropped from 29k to around 14k at the RA.



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PostPosted: 05-04-2010 08:47 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


This rain could never cause such a frame drop, unless you're on a GeForce 256...



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cityy
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PostPosted: 05-05-2010 09:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Updated: http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ct3tourney2_beta/ct3tourney2_beta3.zip

- improved performance
- added some TPs :D

Edit: fixed link :shrug:



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AEon
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PostPosted: 05-05-2010 11:06 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Overall a really beautiful map... I like the layout... feels "right". Played against 2 bots on hardcore. So this is more FFA feedback.

Some thoughts:
  • The TP is "interesting"... it gets you one level up... that seems to be fine, not sure you really need it though.
  • TP design needs some more subtlety, obviously :).
  • The outer wall corridor from the RL to the main arena is a bit bland, some window mock-ups, ledges and other deco would be nice here.
  • It does not seem to be possible in vQ3 to get from the RL side to the RA? I tried strafe jumps (run, SJ, SJ) to get over there, directly. Noted the plank on the window, it gets you there, so that is fine.
  • The JPs have quite a bit of over-bounce. QuakeLive seems to do so as well... personally, I'd lower it about 20% or so for all JPs.
  • Planks, on the upper end they float above the ground. Maybe build a mechanism (brushwork) that supports them, to avoid the floating.
  • LG side rounded wall area also a bit bland, some more deco would be nice here as well.
  • Deco beams around the RL, on the walls are not clipped. Might like to look into clipping again. Did not check the rest of the map in detail though.
  • Weapon layout seems to be OK.
  • Maybe a bit more health could help, like 2 x 25H additionally for FFA.

Really solid map. Nifty!

Note: Downloaded beta 1, so the feedback was off by two betas. Posting update later in the thread for beta 3.
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Anthem
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PostPosted: 05-05-2010 11:30 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Here (lined in red), I think breaking the bricks up a bit might help cut the monotony of the hallway. Also, the teleporter (in my opinion) should be moved over so it is centered between the light and pipe. However, that is a petty preference I have. I think it's fine where it is as well.




Here, I feel the glass window is out of place. Even the wood-covered window is a bit of a stretch. I would recommend doing something about the glass window. Move it, remove it, something. If broken, the wooden pillar support above (circled in red) would probably also cut the monotony of the hallway. Pieces can be dropped on the stairs. In blue, if the small amount of bricks in that general area were broken up to expose the bare wall it would also help cut the monotony.




Here, the trim is shown unfinished on both ends. I'm not sure if you decided to try to make it and it's just in process, or if you tried to get rid of it.




Another small preference: Horizontal/Diagonal planks on the vertical wood 'door'.





I really like what you did with the teleporters. I feel there are now too many, but I will let you and others decide if there are. I like them, though. In my opinion they can all stay.

Again, keep up the great work. This map looks quite promising.



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cityy
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PostPosted: 05-05-2010 11:35 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The problem with moving the TP to the center, as you said Anthem, is that you cant jump directly through the door when you come out of the TP. I like the ideas you had for the visuals - gonna look into everything later, thanks guys!

Edit: Yeah.. have been too lazy to finish the trim because of all the curves there..



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Anthem
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PostPosted: 05-05-2010 11:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


cityy wrote:
The problem with moving the TP to the center, as you said Anthem, is that you cant jump directly through the door when you come out of the TP. I like the ideas you had for the visuals - gonna look into everything later, thanks guys!

Edit: Yeah.. have been too lazy to finish the trim because of all the curves there..


Haha, I figured as much for the trim. Yeah, that makes sense for the teleport. I assumed it was like that for a reason, but I still felt obligated to post about it.

Good luck with the rest of your changes. I'd say you're pretty close to release.



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AEon
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Now testing beta 3:
  • Noted that one of the TPs near the MH is not actually connected to the wall, floating about 1u off the wall.
  • Since these TPs are pretty much in the design used for Quake (1), you might want to add a "bob" movement to them (up/down)... maybe.
  • Personally I think there are *way* too many TPs in the map now, 4? I'd restrict it to one TP, that transports you from one side of the map to the other. And that should be enough.
  • The outer wall corridor from the RL to the main arena is a bit bland, some window mock-ups, ledges and other deco would be nice here.
    :arrow: Looks much nicer now.
  • The more "droppy" rain does not look as nice as your beta (1) rain, IMO. It reminds me of a cartoon look, i.e. less realistic. The lightning sky is nifty.
  • The JPs have quite a bit of over-bounce. QuakeLive seems to do so as well... personally, I'd lower it about 20% or so for all JPs.
    :arrow: Still an issue.
  • Planks, on the upper end they float above the ground. Maybe build a mechanism (brushwork) that supports them, to avoid the floating.
    :arrow: Still an issue.
  • LG side rounded wall area also a bit bland, some more deco would be nice here as well.
    :arrow: Getting better, I like your "lamps".
  • Deco beams around the RL, on the walls are not clipped. Might like to look into clipping again. Did not check the rest of the map in detail though.
    :arrow: Seems like the map is missing a *lot* of playerclip... i.e. window frames near the RA, tubes on the walls etc.
  • Maybe a bit more health could help, like 2 x 25H additionally for FFA.

The suggestions by Anthem are good, breaking up that corner wall would look nice.
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Anthem
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PostPosted: 05-06-2010 02:17 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yeah, I was playing through the map some more and I think there are too many teleporterss. I would keep the one in the "monotonous" hallway and the one in the upper level and leave it at that. The others just add too many un-needed shortcuts.

Edit: To elaborate on my previous comment on the TPs:

In:


Out:


Planks:


Trim:


Move one of the planks (like shown in red on the upper windows) down to the lower window sill. Clip at the blue to allow players to jump (in green).



Sorry, I was a little rushed. I may post again later to clear something up if necessary.



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Last edited by Anthem on 05-06-2010 11:14 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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cityy
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PostPosted: 05-06-2010 05:31 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


You're having 1 screen posted twice there Anthem.. =) Which TP you think should be in and which should be out now?



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Anthem
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PostPosted: 05-06-2010 11:22 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Sorry. I knew I would do something like that.

Anyway, I think all the TPs should be taken out except for the one on the top level and the one in the "monotonous" hallway. The target_location should stay the same for the TP on the top level, but I think the "monotonous" hallway TP target_location should be changed to the one shown above. (The location at the wooden plank doorway opposite of the upper TP).



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deqer
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PostPosted: 05-07-2010 05:50 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


cityy wrote:
Thanks, for the huge amount of feedback guys! I'm gonna look into it. :)

Edit:
@deqer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlE_jjZxg4U That jump works fine for me!?


i c wut u did thar. lol

no no. this is what I meant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjaiazvAnfE

:)
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Kaz
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PostPosted: 05-07-2010 03:44 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


This is a nice little map! Just some preliminary thoughts having run through it for a few minutes:

-Maybe try to recess the geometry behind the fans, right now it's a fan directly on top of a "metal"-ish texture, which does not necessarily make sense.
-Also, where you have the e6 grate with no transparency and no fans behind it in little boxes on the walls, I'd also recess and make them transparent.
-The JP effect would look cool if it were larger at the bottom and then shrunk as it moved vertically.
-I think the water should not be moving very fast at all, maybe have some "splashing"?

I'll be back later on with some more feedback, looking forward to the next iteration!
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Anthem
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PostPosted: 05-07-2010 07:28 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Clip this, sir:



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cityy
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PostPosted: 05-09-2010 03:33 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Update: http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ct3tourney2_beta/ct3tourney2_beta4.zip

Changes:

- a lot of clipping..
- removed the two TPs near the MH
- added floor trim
- some more minor changes
- using evillair's e7 rain now

I am not sure what to do with that hallway from the PG to the RL yet..



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AEon
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PostPosted: 05-09-2010 05:47 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I agree with Kaz, on close inspection all the fans on the walls should actually "lead" into a dark cavity. I.e. cut into the wall geometry, to make actually sense.

  • When standing at the RL, looking towards the RA, the window on the wall to the left was clipped. So now you can easily get from the RL platform right to the RA with two jumps. Alas something went wrong with the clipping. You can now jump "onto" to top edge of the window, and when you jump onto the med plank covering the window, you get blocked by the windows left edge for some reason.
  • The YA two planks top ends are still floating above the ground. I'd also shorten the planks somewhat to reduce the amount of wood that overlaps the top floor.
  • The rain now IMO is fine. It's less noticeable... again I think that is good.
  • Your respawn decals are a bit strange... the squares with a square hole in them. From the beginning I had the feeling I was not "seeing" correctly... as if a texture should actually have been here, instead of the burned away square. Hmmm... not sure what to suggest... maybe better use a wooden "shard" or fragment as respawn placeholder for weapons or maybe some "flat" bricks... that are noblock (i.e. you cannot bump into). I'd also suggest different respawn decals / brushwork for weapons vs. items (RA, MH, YA). Just a personal preference here... but as mentioned I was always confused by the square design or the respawn decals. Maybe upping their transparenly by 50% would make them stand out less...
  • The TPs are pretty much fine, AFAICT... they are fun to use and help connect the map.
  • JPs still have over-bounce.
  • The "outside" corridor near the RL... with the TP... just musing here... maybe placing a weapon here would make folks use it more, much like this worked for the LG corridor. Not sure this is actually a good idea... just a thought.
  • I was wondering why I was not dominating the open map more. Teeheehee... the lack of the RG... but it is actually good that there is no RG in FFA. So all is well.
  • Clipping seems to be better now... for the cases I checked.
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Anthem
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PostPosted: 05-09-2010 08:19 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Clip:


About the window near the RA: Perhaps make the clip angle down like so:

Image

I like how the teles are now. Rain is good too. :)



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^Ghost
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PostPosted: 05-09-2010 09:00 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Anthem wrote:
Clip:


beat me to it... but clip all those areas like that

also in cpm gameplay it would have more flow if there was something here like a box to dj onto without having to use jumppad to kill all momentum



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ShadoW_86
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PostPosted: 05-10-2010 01:38 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hey cityy!
Very nice map :). I love the texture set, excellent work. Same thing wiht the design, map look really professional, but a little too much "Method's QL maps inspired" for me :). But that's just the matter of the personal taste.

Here are few things that came to my mind while testing the map:

-Move gate near LG so it's centered to tele's exit, right now it happen to block me while I'm coming from tele, and make strafe jumps. Plus it will look better :).
-tbh, I really don't like those big lamps. I think they doesn't fit at all to this map, and outstands aesthetically from the rest of the design
-Fix patch mismatch seen on the picture 2
-Add some detail (maybe light or pipe or two) in one of the alleys (picture), right now it looks really boring, comparing to the rest of the map
-the sky looks awesome, but think it lights up a little to often :), looks a little it werid.
-map is too simple to be great 1v1 experience. I'm not sure what is your goal with this map, maybe you just want to make nice small level for few fights, just as I did with my Hipertrofia map, but if you want to have real competitive map, you should make it more complex. Look at my last picture, I've marked there my gameplay route (yes, it's just one circe-based path). Half of the map was not used by me at all, and actually I didn't enjoy it too much :/. I didn't had to explore the map, it was enough for me to take main items one after another, and my opponent was coming to me by himself. It would be really good to add more passages, and even better another storey (yes I know how much work it is), because right now all the game takes place on the ground floor.

Check out the pictures, and their comments.
Please don't take my notices badly, I really like the level, and think that it has great potential.

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