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Topic Starter Topic: The Lost Hallways Beta (formerly known as Castle of Hell)

Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 06-04-2010 06:41 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hello, I've created a Quake 3/Quake Live map called Castle of Hell. I've provided links below and with it a screenshot attached. Can people please help me with map making. I only started map making about 3/4 months ago (I think). I need help with curved surfaces, fog that doesn't mess up, how to mix fog together, making maps appropriate for gameplay and more. If you want the map file ONLY to help me with a few things, then I'll send it to you through a PM.

Castle of Hell for Quake III Arena: http://www.mediafire.com/?g2dmidnmmze
Castle of Hell for Quake Live: http://www.mediafire.com/?nmdzrwztdnm



Thanks.




Attachments:
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shot0023.jpg [ 146.78 KB | Viewed 2207 times ]


Last edited by Dessicated corpse on 08-04-2010 11:20 PM, edited 3 times in total.
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I'm the dude!
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PostPosted: 06-04-2010 07:13 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Welcome to mapping and welcome to Quake3World.

Anything specific you need to know about curves. They are a big subject to write about in one post. Some beginner's patch tutorials here:
http://www.1upclan.info/hosted/bubba-ma ... rial2.html

What questions do you have on fog? What isn't working? If that green stuff is the fog in question, make sure that the fog only has one "open" face.

Best game play design guide by our very own wviperw:
http://www.goodstuffmaynard.com/portfol ... index.html

Other suggestions:
Good start, I assume this is your first map? Looks better than most people's first map. Try to make maps that look less square, beginners have a tendency to make box maps of square rooms connected by long hallways which are boring to look at and boring to play in. One way to remedy this is to consider hallways as smaller rooms that connect into the main room rather than a straight linear hall. Also add additional floors to most large atriums to give it some vertical gameplay. The edge of the walls where it meets the sky is just a single straight line, try adding some varying height to it (add a building or some columns, etc.) to make it look more interesting. Again, nice start.



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Multidirectional
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PostPosted: 06-04-2010 08:21 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


MIXING FOG TOGETHER interesting...

ive read that fog must fill the room volume and have a single face visible or none at all.. so adjescent volumes of fog have odd effects at the seams, either considered a bug or an optional effect to take advantage of in some odd way which noone has already.

Mixing fog might be done by playing with cloud/water&/or/skyportal style shader stages in the fog voume script.. revising the images for the fog so they have color variations or are animated.. few people have dug deep into fog and shown its potential.

in leafland i created a fog image of whispy forest fog and put it on a cylindrical patch around the play area, slowly translating or rotating considering it was a loop.. that combined with clever fog painting on the skybox created a unique fog feel..

your topic fascinated me :D fog is fun.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 06-16-2010 04:24 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thanks for the positive replies. Here's some screenshots of the bugs I need help with.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 06-16-2010 04:28 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Sorry for the double post, it will only let me upload 3 files per post.




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Multidirectional
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PostPosted: 06-16-2010 07:10 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


possible a sorting issue for some things like the doors..


if the fogs are cusom made, try playing with the sorting of the green versus the orange and see if that divides them.. ive tried getting water not to draw in front of fog and couldnt get it to work.. though i did give us after a while.. possible has a method which works..


1. are the faces where the two fogs meet the only visible faces of both fogs?

have you put sorting on the door textures so they draw at the back?

http://robotrenegade.com/q3map2/docs/shader_manual/general-directives.html#sort


where the two fogs meet.. you may not be able to sort them opposing each other properly.. one may be sorted to draw at the back.. but the other wont.. the wize option for that spot is to seperate them. provide a small not filled with fog area, between the two.




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I'm the dude!
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PostPosted: 06-16-2010 08:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Corpse, please try to find your own host for those images. Image uploading is usually used for archival purposes here. We have limited file space on the server. There are a number of free image hosting services on the internet that you can use.

Sort doesn't affect the fog surface itself. Fog is a volumetric effect, not a surface shader. You might be able to force the door to draw above the fog, but it'll draw above everything else too, so it'll look weird.

Fog is a very picky feature with limitations. It must have one and only one face "open" to the rest of the environment. I suspect this isn't the case in your map. If the other side of the door is exposed to "air" and another part of your fog as well, it won't work. Also, fog volumes shouldn't overlap or meet face to face.



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 07-08-2010 11:50 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


skinNCNmaster wrote:
possible a sorting issue for some things like the doors..


if the fogs are cusom made, try playing with the sorting of the green versus the orange and see if that divides them.. ive tried getting water not to draw in front of fog and couldnt get it to work.. though i did give us after a while.. possible has a method which works..


1. are the faces where the two fogs meet the only visible faces of both fogs?

have you put sorting on the door textures so they draw at the back?

http://robotrenegade.com/q3map2/docs/shader_manual/general-directives.html#sort


where the two fogs meet.. you may not be able to sort them opposing each other properly.. one may be sorted to draw at the back.. but the other wont.. the wize option for that spot is to seperate them. provide a small not filled with fog area, between the two.


I'm a dumb noob mapper, so I don't really understand you =(. But the fog shaders in the map are not custom made... I think.

obsidian wrote:
Corpse, please try to find your own host for those images. Image uploading is usually used for archival purposes here. We have limited file space on the server. There are a number of free image hosting services on the internet that you can use.

Sort doesn't affect the fog surface itself. Fog is a volumetric effect, not a surface shader. You might be able to force the door to draw above the fog, but it'll draw above everything else too, so it'll look weird.

Fog is a very picky feature with limitations. It must have one and only one face "open" to the rest of the environment. I suspect this isn't the case in your map. If the other side of the door is exposed to "air" and another part of your fog as well, it won't work. Also, fog volumes shouldn't overlap or meet face to face.


No problem...

Here's some new screenshots (there's so many I put them in a zip) http://www.mediafire.com/?zmmznjtw2tq.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 07-10-2010 10:37 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote





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PostPosted: 07-10-2010 01:52 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Those arches look like they are floating on the fleshy surfaces. Make them look connected to the rest of the structures by adding thin pillars and maybe even a few beams crossing the roof, like a bulkhead.



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 07-10-2010 02:02 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
Those arches look like they are floating on the fleshy surfaces. Make them look connected to the rest of the structures by adding thin pillars and maybe even a few beams crossing the roof, like a bulkhead.


That's exactly what I tried doing. I saw in some maps you could get extra thin objects, how can I do this?




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Grunt
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PostPosted: 07-10-2010 02:28 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


What exactly do you mean by thin objects? You can change grid by pressing 1-9 or selecting one under Grid in the menu. Zoom in and out with the mousewheel.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 07-10-2010 02:35 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Chretien wrote:
What exactly do you mean by thin objects? You can change grid by pressing 1-9 or selecting one under Grid in the menu. Zoom in and out with the mousewheel.


Fuck me, thanks for the grid suggestion.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 07-10-2010 02:57 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


And just 2 more questions. When I use the Cap feature in the Curve tab the texture on the object goes funny, how do I make it normal? I've tried CTRL + N but that only shifts the textures. And is there a simpler way of making objects change their angle instead of using the CTRL key?




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Grunt
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PostPosted: 07-11-2010 12:07 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Select the patch with Shift+LMB and press 's'. There are options for patches.

Under the menu you can find icons for rotating stuff. Also under 'Modify'.




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Immortal
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PostPosted: 07-11-2010 05:21 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


For "thin" objects a texture with an alpha channel might be a better alternative than building on a super small grid.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 07-12-2010 04:19 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Chretien wrote:
Select the patch with Shift+LMB and press 's'. There are options for patches.

Under the menu you can find icons for rotating stuff. Also under 'Modify'.


Thanks, the rotating button works! But Surface inspector just shifts the textures.




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PostPosted: 07-12-2010 08:20 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


There are buttons for fit, natural, set and cap.



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Grunt
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PostPosted: 07-13-2010 07:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Dessicated corpse wrote:
Chretien wrote:
Select the patch with Shift+LMB and press 's'. There are options for patches.

Under the menu you can find icons for rotating stuff. Also under 'Modify'.


Thanks, the rotating button works! But Surface inspector just shifts the textures.


Forgot to tell you that you need to press CAP (in surface inspector) 1-3 times.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 07-13-2010 07:41 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
There are buttons for fit, natural, set and cap.


I tried them all, it only shifts the textures some more.

Chretien wrote:
Forgot to tell you that you need to press CAP (in surface inspector) 1-3 times.


Just did, still shifting the textures...




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PostPosted: 07-13-2010 02:46 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It's possible then, that you've stretched the patch into a shape that can't be properly mapped. Especially if you have been indiscriminately merging control points.



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 07-16-2010 06:42 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
It's possible then, that you've stretched the patch into a shape that can't be properly mapped. Especially if you have been indiscriminately merging control points.


This happens with every single cap.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 07-16-2010 07:03 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It turns out Q3Radiant 202 was the problem. I might try GTKRadiant 1.4 for a while.




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PostPosted: 07-16-2010 07:12 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Don't bother calling tech support when you are running Windows 95.



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 07-16-2010 07:27 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
Don't bother calling tech support when you are running Windows 95.


I'm not, I'm using Windows 7.




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PostPosted: 07-16-2010 07:34 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It was an analogy and you completely missed the point.

Q3Radiant 202 is ancient. If you have problems using it, don't ask people to help you since it is no longer supported and no one uses it anymore.



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 07-16-2010 12:38 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
It was an analogy and you completely missed the point.

Q3Radiant 202 is ancient. If you have problems using it, don't ask people to help you since it is no longer supported and no one uses it anymore.


Ahh, okay. Say.. was there a Quake 1 map maker? Was it QERadiant?




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 07-29-2010 04:00 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote





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This is not Æon!
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PostPosted: 07-29-2010 04:07 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


800x600 @ 56k



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 07-30-2010 05:38 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Someone wrote:
Mod Edit: Dessicated corpse, read the rules here


Hipshot wrote:
800x600 @ 56k


Alright, no problem :)!




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 07-30-2010 10:56 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote





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PostPosted: 07-30-2010 07:45 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Probably. Light coloured fog has an additive effect.



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 07-30-2010 07:54 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
Probably. Light coloured fog has an additive effect.


Indeed.

Also, it seems that some fog shaders make the texture give off light. I have seen some maps in the past that use fog as light sources.



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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 07-30-2010 10:11 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
Probably. Light coloured fog has an additive effect.


[Removed]

Anthem wrote:
Also, it seems that some fog shaders make the texture give off light. I have seen some maps in the past that use fog as light sources.


I can see that. What do you think of the new shots?




Last edited by Dessicated corpse on 07-31-2010 01:10 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 07-30-2010 10:19 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Increase intensity of lights, possibly add a few low powered fill lights to brighten up really dark spots. Add some details to the back walls in the first 2 screenshots, looks a bit plain and also try to fix the tiling texture on them... perhaps swap with a larger sized texture.

Third screenshot looks pretty cool though. I like the bricks, where did you get them from?



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