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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 43212
PostPosted: 01-09-2011 07:27 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Finally I'm ready to present the first beta version of my first map since 2004 or so.

Here's the obligatory screenshots:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Here's the download link (beta 1)

edit: thread has been updated with beta 2. Download that one instead with this download link

Any feedback's appreciated. Mostly, however, I'm interested if some people could give me some hints as to where I should place, erm... hint brushes. There's massive amounts of overdraw and I'm sure that can be solved with some clever hinting but I'm not sure how to tackle that.

I'm aware that the map is not as mindblowing as some of the other stuff you see these days, but I'm already happy I have a finished product to be honest ;)

NOTE: To run the map, type \map ermap4_b1 (or \map ermap4_b2 if you run beta2)




Last edited by Eraser on 01-25-2011 12:30 AM, edited 3 times in total.

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I'm the dude!
I'm the dude!
Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12404
PostPosted: 01-09-2011 07:32 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


From the screenshots, I'm not sure I like the texture on the platform, a bit too odd of a mix between gothic and base texture themes. Try it with just gothic textures and see if it looks any better.

Also the raised bricks in the first two screenshots, they stick out way too much, cut them down to at least half the size.

Otherwise, nice looking "old school" map. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of time to download it and try it out right now.



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Veteran
Veteran
Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 194
PostPosted: 01-09-2011 07:59 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


There is something wrong with the pk3. It seems to be broken. I downloaded it by right-clicking the link and choosing "save as", but I can't run the map (console tells me that there's no bsp found when trying to load it via devmap). When I open the pk3, WinRAR tells me "Unerwartetes Archivende" (unexpected end of archive).



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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 43212
PostPosted: 01-09-2011 09:45 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Oh damn, that's probably the webhost being a bitch about it. I'll upload to a different host as soon as I can...

edit:
ok, uploaded to different host and changed the link. Try downloading again.




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Veteran
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PostPosted: 01-09-2011 12:22 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Before I can judge gameplay you have to do something with these "stairs":

Image

They are much too uncomfortable as the player has to jump to get up there. Bots don't like them aswell and are not very eager to use them either.

Your map feels to empty overall. Even if you only use standard textures, more details and depth to the architecture can be added. I know, that's too general and you want to hear detailed tips instead. But right now, your map seems to represent the Quake3 style from '99, but without all the interesting details the designers in this time created. Which details you use depends on what you want to let your map look like. There are fans, and something like a ventilation system attached to a broken wall. You could work on this theme and make it visible throughout the map. When I play a map, I usually think of where I am and what the use of this place is. If it seems to be more than just an arena for killing people, what are the elements that can be found in it used for?



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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
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PostPosted: 01-25-2011 12:34 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ok, I've made a few changes to the map.

First of all, I've done away with the whole jumping platforms thing (as can be seen here). The whole room has been cut in two seperate rooms with a solid floor in between. Instead, these are the two rooms.

This is the lower room:
Image

This is the upper room:
Image

Additionally, I've also made the bridge section more gothic like:
Image

There are some other small changes.
I'm still looking into improving the architecture and detailing to make it a bit more interesting, but this beta 2 is a good approximation of how the final map will be.

download here

If you've already downloaded beta 1, remove the map-ermap4_b1.pk3 file from your baseq3 folder first.




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The Afflicted
The Afflicted
Joined: 14 Oct 2001
Posts: 580
PostPosted: 01-25-2011 04:54 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


As the worst Q3 player in the world I am least qualified to comment on game play, but there seems to be some very long lines of sight here. The platform above the RA area for example. You can grab the RG and RA and camp up there.

Overall the map seems wide and flat. Again I can't comment on the playability aspects, but visually it seems that way. There is little above the players head and the skyline looks flat. I would aim for some height variation. Adds nothing to gameplay, but makes for a more appealing visual.

There were a few area with details that I didn't understand. The crumbling brick work or light under the clock seemed to promise an advantage by a clever move, but don't seem to have any role in play at all.

The overall theme is a mix of tech and gothic. I'm really wishing you would go for old school gothic. The mixture causes a bit of a problem for me. With so many new maps going for hi res textures, stock id images look dated. I can see the point of uses stock images if you really go for that look, but at the minute its a bit confused. If you want to do the crumbling gothic arena façade, that reveals a tech layer beneath, then why not go for up dated textures? If you intend to stick to stock texture, then maybe make the brushwork a little more interesting. Mostly walls meet the floor at 90 degrees. Mostly walls are axial. I would either go for more interesting texturing and decal use, or more appealing brushwork.

I love all the big fans, but again they are just there. I didn't really get why they are just there. Mostly this is a gothic level, how do the fans fit? If they did something....I dunno like blowing leaves or smoke, I would see more point.

Like I said I'll leave the game play to the pros we have here. Visually though, I would think about what you are trying to achieve.




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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
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PostPosted: 01-26-2011 12:14 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


dONKEY wrote:
As the worst Q3 player in the world I am least qualified to comment on game play, but there seems to be some very long lines of sight here. The platform above the RA area for example. You can grab the RG and RA and camp up there.


Yes I'm looking for some gameplay pointers regarding item placement as well. I'm aware that this won't be the bestest map ever released, it's a bit of a practice exercise for me, but I'm sure there's some things I could change relatively easily to improve things.

dONKEY wrote:
Overall the map seems wide and flat. Again I can't comment on the playability aspects, but visually it seems that way. There is little above the players head and the skyline looks flat. I would aim for some height variation. Adds nothing to gameplay, but makes for a more appealing visual.


With adding height variations, do you mean in the "skyline" of the map or height differences in the map in general? I'm aware that gameplay-wise the map is relatively flat, but I do not think it is something that can easily be changed without rebuilding whole sections of the map. I'd rather wrap up this map as it is and really re-think my whole design and building strategy and start from scratch on a new map.

dONKEY wrote:
There were a few area with details that I didn't understand. The crumbling brick work or light under the clock seemed to promise an advantage by a clever move, but don't seem to have any role in play at all.


Not much of a trickjumper here, so sorry if I disappointed you.

dONKEY wrote:
The overall theme is a mix of tech and gothic. I'm really wishing you would go for old school gothic. The mixture causes a bit of a problem for me. With so many new maps going for hi res textures, stock id images look dated. I can see the point of uses stock images if you really go for that look, but at the minute its a bit confused. If you want to do the crumbling gothic arena façade, that reveals a tech layer beneath, then why not go for up dated textures? If you intend to stick to stock texture, then maybe make the brushwork a little more interesting.


I was originally thinking of giving it a look of a really old abandoned gothic building which has been refurbished to use for deathmatches. I figured that in such an old place you'd need to improve things with current day technology so that's why I originally made the bridge with those diamond plating and warning stripe textures, as if they were added in at a later stage. The fans resemble some sort of air conditioning system because otherwise it would become damp and warm. Not a good temperature for blowing each other to pieces ;)
I could do two things. Remove all the somewhat tech-looking structures or exaggerate them even more. I'm currently opting for the latter, because it would be a good way of adding more detail I think. Using a tech texture set which looks completely different from the stock id Software textures in combination with the standard gothic textures would look out of place I think.

dONKEY wrote:
Mostly walls meet the floor at 90 degrees. Mostly walls are axial. I would either go for more interesting texturing and decal use, or more appealing brushwork.


I'll look into this.



dONKEY wrote:
I love all the big fans, but again they are just there. I didn't really get why they are just there. Mostly this is a gothic level, how do the fans fit? If they did something....I dunno like blowing leaves or smoke, I would see more point.


Explained before :) Maybe things make sense to me because I thought them up but they aren't quite as logical to everyone else.

dONKEY wrote:
Like I said I'll leave the game play to the pros we have here. Visually though, I would think about what you are trying to achieve.


I will. Thanks for the feedback. It's really a learning experience so getting feedback is really important to me. Even if the feedback might not immediately end up in this map, it will definitely help my next :)




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 399
PostPosted: 01-26-2011 04:29 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Will post about game play later tonight or tomorrow.



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Gibblet
Gibblet
Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 15
PostPosted: 01-27-2011 07:13 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hey eraser, i like overall the style of your trims and details and the maplayout, but as mentioned above, right now the stuff like and fans doesnt fight, maybe you should stick the theme to something like a manufactory from the industrial revolution (lol but i guess, back then, there were not so much fans :>). I dont know for what gametype the map is thought, but actually the itemplacment is senseless, and make the map totally boring for duel, and even in ffa, you really should consider the itemplacment. I uploaded a match against a 80.cpma bot to show the main problem. i have basicly only to stay at rail and wait that the stubborn fella tries to get the red armor, and from time to time i only need to go and grab yellow armor,since you really dont need much more to control the map. due the size the opponent wont have a chance gettin unnoticed to the second stage. also due the size its really annoying to move thru the map, coz i need ages to travel(!!!) to any place. and there is to much health, i grab red armor and then i just go thru the tunnel and tadaa, if i really came under 100 health, i have again 100 health! LG and RG shouldnt be that close together, it makes every move away area from this aera in combination with the yellow armor obsolete.

here 2 suggestions :

http://www.divshare.com/download/13890780-856

http://www.divshare.com/img/13890781-e31.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACXaMR50vVo

i hope it doesnt sound to harsh, but my english is not the best! =)

p.s i am to dumb for thumbnails :E

regards kaffeewunder


edit: your absolutly right, was the same link. :)

ye well one option would be

rg -> gl
lg -> ya
gl -> rg (former lg)

later i will suggest maybe some better placement. overall i think red armor right now lays to open.




Last edited by kaffee on 01-27-2011 08:07 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 43212
PostPosted: 01-27-2011 07:41 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


No man, this kind of feedback is invaluable. I'll look into the item placement. How do you suggest I could improve it? Move the RG away from there?

1 thing, your two screenshots seem to link to the same file.




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Gibblet
Gibblet
Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 15
PostPosted: 01-27-2011 08:09 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


oh and then rocketlaunce should be moved somehow, coz with the suggested changes, rocketlauncher and railgun are to near each other, maybe shotgun or plasma were the rocket lies, and the rocketlauncher definitly up to the jumpad.

regards kaffeewunder




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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 43212
PostPosted: 01-27-2011 08:30 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thanks a lot. Good suggestions! I will make some changes :)




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 399
PostPosted: 01-27-2011 12:59 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm assuming this map is meant for 2v2 (ish) TDM when I suggest these changes:

The following changes take place in this area: http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy15 ... ot0016.jpg

- Remove the +5 health bubbles and replace them with armor shards.
- Remove the Red Armor and replace it with Mega Health.
- Replace the Plasma Gun with a Shotgun.
- Remove the two +25 health bubbles on the right and move the Shotgun to that position (centered between where the two +25 health bubbles were).

After those changes have been made:

- Remove the two +25 health bubbles from this area and place 5 +5 health bubbles along the wall.
- This area needs something. Armor shards might work.
- Move the Lightning Gun from where it is currently located to this area centered properly.
- Remove the Grenade Launcher and replace it with a Plasma Gun.
- Remove the Shotgun and replace it with the Grenade Launcher (centered with the jump pad on the top platform).

I didn't address the ammunition or some other small things, so the layout definitely isn't perfect. Hopefully it adds a fresh perspective to your layout so you can change it for the better.

Good luck.



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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
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PostPosted: 01-28-2011 12:18 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm really happy with all this feedback. It's great to hear concrete suggestions of what I could do. Sometimes you need to be nudged a bit in the right direction and then the creative juices start flowing again.

Anyway, so far I've made the weapon/item changes Anthem suggested but that leaves the question of what to do with the RG. I agree it's probably too easy to dominate the map by camping RG + YA. Should I perhaps rotate the RL/RG/YA positions? So you'd have

RG moved to YA
YA moved to RL
RL moved to RG

Also, with Anthem's suggestions in mind, the area where the LG used to be feels empty now. Maybe I should put the RL there and leave the overlooking platform empty (some ammo maybe)?

I also put in two pillars where kaffee suggested it in the hallway leading from the main courtyard (with the clock) to the teleporter area. I broke up the "side skirts" so it allows a bit more movement room around the pillars. It's a really good suggestion because it makes the area far more interesting to fight in and it looks aestethically more pleasing.

I'm going to think of a good way of getting to the upper level in the bridge room (where the RL and YA are) as kaffee suggested. Using a broken pillar as a jump-step up seems like a valid idea for players, but I'm sure the bots will probably hate it.




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Insane Quaker
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Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 399
PostPosted: 01-28-2011 03:57 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The reason why I suggested that the LG be moved into the empty room is because the Railgun and Lightning Gun were too close together.

What if you swapped the Grenade Launcher and Railgun? The (current) Railgun platform is an easier spot to camp mega, but without the railgun it's not as dangerous. If that was the case, though, you may have to get rid of the two +25 Health Bubbles from that area because the Railgun platform usually has to be devoid of health to avoid camping.

I like where the YA is in relation to the MH because they are on opposite levels. The Rocket Launcher is also in a great spot because it's very balanced when placed next to the armor, since it is a powerful weapon. So, I wouldn't recommend changing the RL room much, but I suppose you could swap the RL and RG and see how that works.

Maybe you could add a +25 Health Bubble to where the LG used to be. My suggestions sort of took away most of the allocations of health you had, so a +25 health might be useful.



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Gibblet
Gibblet
Joined: 05 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: 01-29-2011 07:28 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


really cool easy map :)) shot shot shot, yea!




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Insane Quaker
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Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Posts: 298
PostPosted: 01-30-2011 11:33 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


so, what's the update on this? it's been 2 days now.




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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 43212
PostPosted: 01-31-2011 12:54 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Working on it bro. I'm not so fast, had a lot of other things to do this weekend.




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 399
PostPosted: 01-31-2011 03:57 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yeah... I don't quite understand the need to spam every mapping topic from the last three or four months begging for updates....



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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 28 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: 01-31-2011 08:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Anthem wrote:
Yeah... I don't quite understand the need to spam every mapping topic from the last three or four months begging for updates....

That's okay if you don't understand. It's no spam though, so please, take your understanding and kindly shove it up your ass. Thanks.




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Trainee
Trainee
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
Posts: 47
PostPosted: 01-31-2011 08:32 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


deqer wrote:
That's okay if you don't understand. It's no spam though, so please, take your understanding and kindly shove it up your ass. Thanks.


That's the kind of attitude I really missed here - NOT. :rolleyes:



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