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Topic Starter Topic: Re: Here's a wild idea: EntityPlus

Cool #9
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PostPosted: 05-31-2011 04:07 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


There's more games doing the "big background - minimalistic menu" thing. And I like it:






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I'm the dude!
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PostPosted: 05-31-2011 06:36 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The 3D text is actually a model. Can a model in the menu be animated? For example, when you hover the mouse across the object, can you zoom in on the model or change it's angle, trigger a change in shader properties or something else?

Is there any way of actually lighting a model in the menu screen? I think models in menus typically have their vertex values set to 1.



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The Afflicted
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PostPosted: 05-31-2011 02:21 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


What about using Evil Lair's template/placeholder textures (for the background)? Orange looks great.

Or AEon's take on it.

I like the ones AEon has made with simple horizontal and vertical lines on them, stating "128u x 128u" for a 256x256 texture (because of scaling - source: AEon).

The textures I mean are not in this screenshot though:

Image




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Mentor
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PostPosted: 05-31-2011 03:28 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
The 3D text is actually a model. Can a model in the menu be animated? For example, when you hover the mouse across the object, can you zoom in on the model or change it's angle, trigger a change in shader properties or something else?

Is there any way of actually lighting a model in the menu screen? I think models in menus typically have their vertex values set to 1.

Yes to all, with some coding effort. How well model lighting works probably depends on what you want to do.




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I'm the dude!
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PostPosted: 05-31-2011 03:41 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


[daydreaming]It would be pretty interesting if the menu could actually be a map viewed from a fixed position and all the interactions in the menu be driven by actual entities.[/daydreaming]

I'm just wondering if any lighting could be directed at the model and be associated with a lightmap or vertex lighting, because the menu isn't a map with light sources. Otherwise, if there is any shading on the model, I'll have to bake it into the texture (requires more intricate UV-mapping and texture sizes). Or I can render the 3d model as a 2d texture with fake perspective.



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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 05-31-2011 10:24 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


errr yeh, if misantropia is up for a challenge, be my guest. I wouldn't know where to begin with that :(




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surfaceparm nomarks
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PostPosted: 05-31-2011 11:08 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'd like to see sock's The Edge Of Forever in the background. :) Maybe you could just let a video loop behind the menu GUI.



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Eh?
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PostPosted: 06-01-2011 06:54 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Convert area to .obj, delete junk brushes, optimise mesh/texture usage, place in the correct origin, light model, profit?

Its pretty much what I did for the background scene UI in OverDose, its faster and easier to load a mesh than it is to load a map.




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Immortal
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PostPosted: 06-02-2011 12:12 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


i would like an expanded sound engine, with like radius and volume settings. reverb and other modern settings id imagine to be harder to implement... but man would they be great.




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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 06-03-2011 01:57 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That's engine stuff which can't be implemented through a mod. Take a look at ioQuake though, I think that supports OpenAL? Not sure if that extends to EAX or something like that.




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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 06-03-2011 02:03 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I've begun early stages of implementing some generic scoring system. So far it's really simple and each point of damage dealt to an enemy is counted as a single point for your score, but I'd like to have something more interesting in there. Any ideas for this?




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Veteran
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PostPosted: 06-03-2011 05:23 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
I've begun early stages of implementing some generic scoring system. So far it's really simple and each point of damage dealt to an enemy is counted as a single point for your score, but I'd like to have something more interesting in there. Any ideas for this?

If the damage the player has dealt equals the score he gets, then playing on lower difficulties yields less score points than on higher difficulties. If that is not what you want, giving a set amount of points for killed enemies might be better. This could be done via botspawn keys and values, but would cause some extra work compared to the "score for hits" solution.

Personally I like the score for hits idea. It's fully automated and doesn't need any further maintenance by the mapper.

The only problem: if a player kills all enemies (and you usually do that) he'll always have the same score. I think some other variables for giving points could look like this:

- amount of death's (subtracts points)
- amount of ammo, health and armor left (adds points)
- secrets found (adds points)

I guess these numbers, as well as the amount of damage dealt, should be multiplied or divided by different numbers to normalize the points. For example, multiply the score you get for hits by 2, the amount of deaths by 25 or 50, keep health and armor as they are and divide ammo by 2. Round up odd numbers to the next higher figure. Secrets could add 500 points.

The logic behind it: you get awarded for dying as little as possible, aiming as good as possible and to find all secrets. The question is: will there be other awards (useful awards - not this stupid achievement stuff) for making a lot of points? I thought of Spyro 2, where you get some additional epilogue screens when finding all hidden things in the game. Or Stranglehold, where pictures and videos can be unlocked with points you have earned before. The game could really benefit from this. Imagine making-of sections with pictures and videos, bonus levels or different versions of levels that include this cool developer commentary style you used in ermap4.

Player's could be rewarded in-game when reaching a certain amount of points too. Items (e.g. a holdable medikit, holdable haste or holdable quad) could be given to them, or events could be triggered (secret doors...). This could be done with a new entity. It can target other entities and is activated when a set amount of points is reached.

Another topic: the mod will need the possibility to put levels in a certain order and make them inaccessible as long as the previous level is not yet completed. Quake 3 already did this and unlocked the next tier after fighting all arenas. I just needed to be changed to one level instead of four. I think hiding (and not just shading) all levels that are not yet available would be nice. I hate knowing when the game's going to end.



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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 06-04-2011 02:14 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


DaEngineer wrote:
If the damage the player has dealt equals the score he gets, then playing on lower difficulties yields less score points than on higher difficulties. If that is not what you want, giving a set amount of points for killed enemies might be better. This could be done via botspawn keys and values, but would cause some extra work compared to the "score for hits" solution.


Actually, no it doesn't. Bots don't have less health at lower difficulty settings. I have been toying with the idea of doing this though, but I'd have to see how that works out.

DaEngineer wrote:
Personally I like the score for hits idea. It's fully automated and doesn't need any further maintenance by the mapper.


Yes I'm thinking the same thing. And even if enemies at a lower difficulty have less health, then a lower skill setting would yield a lower score, yes, but maybe that's a good thing, so playing at a higher skill level rewards you with a higher score.

DaEngineer wrote:
The only problem: if a player kills all enemies (and you usually do that) he'll always have the same score.


Yep. That's why I need ideas for other scoring mechanisms.

DaEngineer wrote:
I think some other variables for giving points could look like this:

- amount of death's (subtracts points)
- amount of ammo, health and armor left (adds points)
- secrets found (adds points)

I guess these numbers, as well as the amount of damage dealt, should be multiplied or divided by different numbers to normalize the points. For example, multiply the score you get for hits by 2, the amount of deaths by 25 or 50, keep health and armor as they are and divide ammo by 2. Round up odd numbers to the next higher figure. Secrets could add 500 points.

The logic behind it: you get awarded for dying as little as possible, aiming as good as possible and to find all secrets.


Seems like a good idea.

DaEngineer wrote:
The question is: will there be other awards (useful awards - not this stupid achievement stuff) for making a lot of points? I thought of Spyro 2, where you get some additional epilogue screens when finding all hidden things in the game. Or Stranglehold, where pictures and videos can be unlocked with points you have earned before. The game could really benefit from this. Imagine making-of sections with pictures and videos, bonus levels or different versions of levels that include this cool developer commentary style you used in ermap4.

Player's could be rewarded in-game when reaching a certain amount of points too. Items (e.g. a holdable medikit, holdable haste or holdable quad) could be given to them, or events could be triggered (secret doors...). This could be done with a new entity. It can target other entities and is activated when a set amount of points is reached.

Another topic: the mod will need the possibility to put levels in a certain order and make them inaccessible as long as the previous level is not yet completed. Quake 3 already did this and unlocked the next tier after fighting all arenas. I just needed to be changed to one level instead of four. I think hiding (and not just shading) all levels that are not yet available would be nice. I hate knowing when the game's going to end.


Well, the thing is, my current aim for EntityPlus isn't to deliver a complete game with a predefined list of levels as such. The idea is that EntityPlus delivers the platform and you guys, the level editing community, can go nuts creating your own levels for this mod. So there's no single great campaign that has a start and end, the idea was that there would be lots of short, completely unrelated campaigns that consist of one or maybe multiple levels, but all created by different mappers.

So with that in mind, there's not much I can do in terms of locking or unlocking levels. And because of this, the idea of rewarding players based on their scores is a little tricky to deal with. For now I'm thinking a high score is just that: a high score. A way for you to brag to your friends :)




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Veteran
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PostPosted: 06-05-2011 03:03 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
DaEngineer wrote:
If the damage the player has dealt equals the score he gets, then playing on lower difficulties yields less score points than on higher difficulties. If that is not what you want, giving a set amount of points for killed enemies might be better. This could be done via botspawn keys and values, but would cause some extra work compared to the "score for hits" solution.


Actually, no it doesn't. Bots don't have less health at lower difficulty settings. I have been toying with the idea of doing this though, but I'd have to see how that works out.


Damn, I forgot to delete that part of my posting. That's something I noticed too while typing and only deleted a part that sounds quite exactly what you wrote here:

Eraser wrote:
Yes I'm thinking the same thing. And even if enemies at a lower difficulty have less health, then a lower skill setting would yield a lower score, yes, but maybe that's a good thing, so playing at a higher skill level rewards you with a higher score.


What you wrote about the last part of my posting: I know, that's very specific and probably impossible to generealize in a way a level designer has freedom to do these very varying things with it.


Yesterday I meditated on a campaign I wanted to do with the mod. I'd need an entity that can access commands that are usually only addressable by the console. To be specific, I want to toggle the HUD and God-mode. Is such an entity feasible? And for the level transitions: can they be faded (to black or white) in and out? Ideally on top of the screen and all its elements, to make the HUD fade too.

//EDIT: And an entity to remove all weapons from the player. This would require an weapon_gauntlet entity as well.



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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 06-05-2011 03:42 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


DaEngineer wrote:
Yesterday I meditated on a campaign I wanted to do with the mod. I'd need an entity that can access commands that are usually only addressable by the console. To be specific, I want to toggle the HUD and God-mode. Is such an entity feasible?


Actually, yes it already is. The target_mapchange entity has a SCRIPT spawnflag. When this spawnflag is set, then the value you enter as the mapname key will be executed with the exec command. So for instance, if you put "myscript.cfg" as mapname there, then when the entity is triggered, it'll perform the command

\exec myscript.cfg

If you put this in myscript.cfg:

Code:
cg_draw2d 0
god


Then that should do exactly what you want. I realize this functionality is a bit odd on an entity called target_mapchange, but I originally intended it to be used for stringing cinematics and or demos to the end of a level. I will probably create a seperate target_script entity though.

DaEngineer wrote:
And for the level transitions: can they be faded (to black or white) in and out? Ideally on top of the screen and all its elements, to make the HUD fade too.


I'll see what I can do for you.




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Veteran
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PostPosted: 06-05-2011 05:01 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
Actually, yes it already is. The target_mapchange entity has a SCRIPT spawnflag. When this spawnflag is set, then the value you enter as the mapname key will be executed with the exec command. So for instance, if you put "myscript.cfg" as mapname there, then when the entity is triggered, it'll perform the command

That's just great. Didn't know about this. I planned to have an entire level without HUD and in God-Mode, so I'm very pleased with this.

Eraser wrote:
DaEngineer wrote:
And for the level transitions: can they be faded (to black or white) in and out? Ideally on top of the screen and all its elements, to make the HUD fade too.

I'll see what I can do for you.

Thanks! Did you read the edit in my last post? The thing about removing weapons from the player's inventory? I just thought it could be expanded to all items a player can carry, including holdable ones and keys.



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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 06-05-2011 05:16 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hadn't seen the edit yet. I'll create something like that.




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PostPosted: 06-05-2011 09:52 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Here are finally the promised sound effects by Scout. He made multiple effects so you can choose the ones you like. If you don't like them at all, just tell me and I'll ask him if he can make different ones. The package also contains a readme with a license for the backpack and debris models that was missing until now. Download here.



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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 06-06-2011 01:05 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ooh, that's great.
I like the combined key pickup sound (key_01+02.wav) so I went with that.

As for the keycard pickup sounds, the first one does have this "pickup" vibe to it, probably because of those last two "ting ting" effects at the end, but I like the subtlety of the second one. For now I've picked the first. Maybe if the initial effect is slightly shorter as well then it'd have more impact.

For the objectives updated effect, I went with the first one as well. Only gripe I have with it is that it's maybe a tad too long as well, it should be slightly more to the point. I like the three beeps at the end, but it's taking a "blink-of-an-eye" too long to get there I think.

Other than that, I have no knowledge on how to deal with sound effects, all I know is that it's hard. The tough thing with sound effects is to achieve something that sounds natural which you basically don't notice is there until it's gone. But if you're focusing on sound effects, to listen if they sound good, then they stand out because you're paying attention to them and they almost immediately sound out of place. It's almost like quantum physics ;)

Sounds have to grow on you I guess. But for a start, these are really great!




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PostPosted: 06-06-2011 03:49 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Here are some updated sounds for you. That's what the Readme says:

Quote:
This is an update of the soundpack for Eraser's Entity Plus mod.
Included are three sounds:

-keycard_01.wav
-keycard_03.wav

-objective_update_01.wav

What's new:

-keycard_01 was shortened a bit
-keycard_03, a new file combining the main elements of keycard_02 with
the bass sound of the old keycard_01, was added
-objective_update_01 was shortened to sound firm

All files are in 16bit mono again for Quake 3 Arena compatibility


I really like the new keycard_03 sound effect. It's smoother and more subtle than the old keycard effects and fits my idea of a keycard sound most.

Download here



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Last edited by DaEngineer on 06-06-2011 05:51 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 06-06-2011 05:27 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm getting a page cannot be displayed error when I click the download link on mediafire.com




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Veteran
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PostPosted: 06-06-2011 05:52 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
I'm getting a page cannot be displayed error when I click the download link on mediafire.com

No idea where that came from, never had this problem before. I've uploaded a zip file now instead of a rar archive. Link has been fixed.



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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 06-06-2011 06:28 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Got 'em.
I like them a lot. The new keycard one sounds good. I've added it as well.

I'll be releasing a new version soon, somewhere this week.




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PostPosted: 06-07-2011 04:03 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I thought about creating foliage with a LOD to disappear at a certain distance and ran into this problem when I asked how to do this. Can you remove the cheat protection for r_lodscale?



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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 06-07-2011 11:05 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I've got something better.
In 0.7, I've moved away from g_gametype 2 and entityplus maps should be run in a new gametype (g_gametype 8). This means the spmap command is no longer needed and devmap still works properly, so you can access all cheats.

edit:
nm, I read the other thread now. Unfortunately I can't remove the cheat protection. r_lodscale is defined in the engine, not the mod SDK so I can't change that AFAIK.




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PostPosted: 06-08-2011 02:31 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
Unfortunately I can't remove the cheat protection. r_lodscale is defined in the engine, not the mod SDK so I can't change that AFAIK.

trap_Cvar_Set() should let you override r_lodscale. AFAIK only the fs_* cvars are truly write protected.




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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 06-08-2011 03:21 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Oh I see. What I've done is that I've added a cg_lodScale cvar which, when changed, immediately overwrites the value of r_lodScale. So basically you can use cg_lodScale instead of r_lodScale.
Not sure if this is the most attractive solution, but it works for now.

DaEngineer, do you need a build of the mod with this change in it so you can test if it works out for you?




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Veteran
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PostPosted: 06-08-2011 04:34 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Eraser wrote:
Oh I see. What I've done is that I've added a cg_lodScale cvar which, when changed, immediately overwrites the value of r_lodScale. So basically you can use cg_lodScale instead of r_lodScale.
Not sure if this is the most attractive solution, but it works for now.

DaEngineer, do you need a build of the mod with this change in it so you can test if it works out for you?

That sounds good. I'm fine with /devmap for now.



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PostPosted: 06-11-2011 01:49 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I wanted to ask you earlier but forgot about it. Most modern games create atmosphere by using screen effects like color grading or dark screen corners. It would be incredibly cool if color grading could be used in Quake. This could be done (IF it's even possible) with brushes that enable color grading with set color values as long as you are inside them. As soon as you leave the brush, the effect will decrease. A value how far you have to move away from the brush (or into it, depending on how the system works) until the effect has fully decreased / increased to the max could be set in the brush's entity menu.

While I am quite sure that the stuff I wrote above can't be done in five minutes, I guess the dark corners effect is easier to realize? Maybe like shown in the video, with an image that's placed on top of the screen (but below the HUD)?



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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 06-12-2011 03:18 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hmm, color grading is probably not something I can do without making modifications to the engine. Those dark corners could be achieved with a TGA image with transparency (it's relatively easy to do this). Not sure how well the end result would look though. I'll try something out and report back with my findings.




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PostPosted: 06-12-2011 06:02 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It would be neat to have a full-screen shader, so people could write a script to do dark corners, film grain, etc




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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 06-14-2011 04:16 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ok I've implemented functionality into the target_effect entity which allows you to specify a path to a (TGA) image which is drawn full screen over the whole view of the player. The actual HUD is drawn on top of this. It allows for the dark corners effect DaEngineer spoke of (which apparently is called "vignetting"). Below is a screenshot that shows an example of this.
Unfortunately, the only thing I can offer right now is a static image that's drawn over the whole screen. I haven't figured out if shaders can actually be applied, but this is a good start.

Image




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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 06-15-2011 11:09 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


EntityPlus 0.7 released!

I've just uploaded the latest release of EntityPlus to the project website.

I'll discuss the most notable changes.

First of all, and this is important for level designers who manually load their maps for testing: you no longer should load your map with the "spmap" command. Instead, simply use "map" or "devmap", but set the g_gametype cvar to 8 before loading the map. When loading a map through the single player menu, this is done for you.
Another important thing for those who have been using target_mapchange to execute a cfg script, replace that with the new target_script entity. target_mapchange is no longer able to execute scripts.

There's a new scoring system. Killing enemies rewards you points, dying will cost you points, having a higher accuracy will earn you points and playing at a higher difficulty level will multiply your final score with a skill-based multiplier (linearly scaling from 0.5x for easiest setting to 2.5x for highest difficulty). There's a new target_finish entity which, when triggered, will display an end-game scoreboard and compare the score to the existing high score and if it's higher, save the new score to disk. The current high score will be displayed in the single player map selection screen.
I've been thinking of other ways of scoring points, like finding secret areas but I'm not sure how I'll do that. Maybe I'll include it in a future release of the mod.

The mod also has a completely new main menu and the loading screen is basically black with single "loading" message and a makeshift progress bar in there. When it's done loading, the black screen will fade into the game giving a pretty neat transition from loading to the actual game. Try it out with the ep_example map I say :)

Here is a direct link to the download page of the new version of the mod.


Here's the complete list of changes:

  • [Added] Scoring system which allows players to keep track of high scores for levels.
  • [Added] target_script entity which implements the SCRIPT functionality previously available on target_mapchange.
  • [Added] target_finish entity to finish a level and record a highscore for that level.
  • [Added] POWERUPS, FLAGS, WEAPONS and HOLDABLES spawnflags to target_remove_powerups.
  • [Added] SILENT spawnflag for target_objective.
  • [Added] OVERLAY spawnflag for target_effect.
  • [Added] cg_letterBoxSize cvar.
  • [Added] cg_lodScale cvar.
  • [Added] custom pickup sounds for keys and keycards.
  • [Fixed] sv_maxclients is forced to 8 when starting a map through the single player menu.
  • [Fixed] Weapons with 0 ammo do not end up in backpack.
  • [Fixed] Player handicap affects single player mode.
  • [Fixed] Bot connection and loading messages are displayed in the console when running in single player mode.
  • [Fixed] Single Player menu shows same map name under the levelshot for each map.
  • [Fixed] Bots specified in .arena file are spawned into the game in g_gametype 8.
  • [Fixed] The "levelselect" command shows the old Quake 3 level select menu.
  • [Fixed] Demos recorded in vanilla Quake 3 display incorrect item pickups.
  • [Changed] Screen fades in or out after level load or when hitting a target_mapchange.
  • [Changed] Green armor name from "armor" to "light armor".
  • [Changed] Green armor icon.
  • [Changed] Running maps in EntityPlus' single player mode now requires g_gametype to be set to 8 instead of 2.
  • [Changed] In-game pause menu no longer shows inaccessible options.
  • [Changed] Health no longer degrades to 100 when it is above 100.
  • [Changed] Notification for updated objectives is made more subtle with a sound and a blinking icon.
  • [Changed] con_notifytime is no longer forced to 0.
  • [Changed] ".... entered the game" message is no longer displayed for the player in SP mode.
  • [Changed] Updated skin of green armor.
  • [Changed] CD Key menu is no longer automatically displayed if no CD key is entered.
  • [Changed] Removed SCRIPT and SHOW_INTERMISSION spawnflags from target_mapchange.
  • [Changed] Number of kills is no longer tracked on the objectives overlay.
  • [Changed] Bots should no longer taunt in single player mode.
  • [Changed] New main menu (again!)
  • [Changed] New minimalistic loading screen so it doesn't spoil the items in the level.




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Veteran
Veteran
Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 194
PostPosted: 06-15-2011 11:26 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The progress you are making is incredible. I played through the example map and totally like how things evolve. I read through the new chapters in the manual and found a minor issue. You called the first difficulty level "Don't hurt me" two times. It's called "I Can Win".



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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 42660
PostPosted: 06-15-2011 11:37 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


lol, thanks for pointing that out. "Don't Hurt Me" is actually the 2nd difficulty level of Wolfenstein 3D :D




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