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Topic: Sock writes a bunch of articles...

obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498

Posted: 02-09-2013 07:38 PM

Sock's been working on his own Quake stealth mod, In the Shadows and as a result he's written a few articles on his experiences with getting feedback and creating a single player game. I found them to be a good read.

In the Shadows is still a work in progress, you can learn more about it on Sock's website.

Here are the links to the full articles and excerpts from the introduction of each article:

Do you really want feedback?
When a developer creates something that they feel proud of, it usually involves a large amount of time, energy and emotional investment. It is not uncommon for people to pour their heart and soul into something creative and then feel overly sensitive afterwards when confronted with a stranger's opinion.

Understanding what type of feedback is being offered can help you get past defensive feelings and realize that feedback is about helping to improve something, not hinder it.

Feedback Loops
I think the best way to improve something is through iteration or feedback loops. This is where you collect as much feedback as possible and then refine it down to a small set of points. Feedback can often be wild and crazy, but nevertheless it is an extremely valuable development tool that should not be overlooked.

Exploration is the Key
I like games that have places to explore, mysterious locations to discover and background stories that glues it all together giving me the clues to why it was designed that way. I decided early on in the development of the MOD 'In the Shadows' that I wanted to design small story events that were located off the main path, that the player could choose to explore if they want. The starting area for the MOD is called the Temple of Swords, a dark cavernous location with cold stone walls and many guards looking to show intruders the sharp end of their sword. Like many things in the Quake universe the start of the story event 'The Well of Bones' is when the player finds a Key which is how most modern games mechanics work (PDA, mission update, NPCs) except Quake is more obvious with its choice of props.

Looking Smart
One of the challenges of designing a stealth combat system is that the AI needs to be smart, or probably a better way to put it, the AI needs to look smart! Generally most players will forgive AI doing the odd dumb thing or two in games, but if the AI manages to do something cool or funny before they die then it will be remembered with fondness. The AI don't need to have a GPS strapped to their back, they just need to look like they know where they are going!?!

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roughrider
Swift and Deadly

Joined: 21 Jul 2002
Posts: 1679

Posted: 02-10-2013 11:00 PM

Interesting work brushmonkey has been up to.

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sock
The Illuminated

Joined: 08 Sep 2000
Posts: 1085

Posted: 02-11-2013 04:33 AM

I was not expecting anyone here to be interested in my Quake 1 project which is why I am surprised to see screenshots and links posted. I spent 6 months creating the content from scratch including new AI code, a path finding system using entities, a story and book system, a new gameplay mode (stealth), a new particle system and tons of new art assets. The level of detail is very high and does require a custom Quake engine. I have created a couple of youtube videos of what the game play is like if anyone is curious.

My youtube channel with game play video examples.

If anyone has any feedback, suggestions or nitpicks good or bad then please contact me via email or here. I am always willing to listen to feedback regardless of how honest you want to say it.

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KittenIgnition
Insane Quaker

Joined: 06 Nov 2011
Posts: 250

Posted: 02-11-2013 07:52 AM

I've been following this somewhat for a couple months now. It's the coolest mod I've seen for any of the Quake games aside from Q3. I really want to play it.

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498

Posted: 02-11-2013 08:11 AM

Well, with Entity Plus as a single player mod for Q3 and other games being posted here, I thought the articles are indeed relevant. Talking feedback and gameplay is never lame and we like this type of monkey business.

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Bliccer
Insane Quaker

Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Posts: 341

Posted: 02-12-2013 07:09 AM

That indeed looks awesome sir. I can already see the speedruns, although I don't think it will be that hard, only having watched the first movie.

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AEon
Boink!

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4493

Posted: 02-12-2013 11:26 AM

OT: Did not want to bring it up, but Sock's mod looked so nice I was thinking it would be great DLC via Steam for Quake. And would put a few "pennies" in Sock's pocket. I mention this because, money does in some sense equate appreciation, because folks actually care and like it to want to spend their hard-earned money on it. Sorry, if I am totally off though.

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498

Posted: 02-12-2013 12:31 PM

DLC's are usually "official" content created by the developers and I believe Steam has a rather steep entry fee/royalty that may make it difficult for just a mod. Steam Workshop might be a better idea, but it currently only supports a handful of games.

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Eraser
Cool #9

Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 44138

Posted: 02-12-2013 10:19 PM

New content for Steam goes through Steam Greenlight, which costs you $100 (I think) entry fee and then only if it receives more votes than the other submitted content it will be allowed on Steam. That system just sucks IMO

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sock
The Illuminated

Joined: 08 Sep 2000
Posts: 1085

Posted: 02-13-2013 02:48 AM

KittenIgnition wrote:
I've been following this somewhat for a couple months now. It's the coolest mod I've seen for any of the Quake games aside from Q3. I really want to play it.

You can download the demo at the moment and try it if you want. The zip file has instructions for getting a custom quake engine and how to setup the MOD in the right directory. I have replaced a lot of existing assets but the MOD still requires an original license of Quake (which is often on sale on steam)

AEon wrote:
I was thinking it would be great DLC via Steam for Quake. And would put a few "pennies" in Sock's pocket.

My originally idea was to produce a high quality demo and then try a Kickstarter campaign to raise more money to finish off more content (more maps, AI types art etc) over a six month period. Besides the fact that Id/Bethesda might not like me doing a Kickstarter campaign with their game I thought the idea could work, because the money would be for my time creating new content and nothing to do with selling the MOD which would be given away free at the end of the project.

I spent a very long time creating new content, especially a lot of work was done with the AI because the original AI are "dumb as bricks", but I seriously underestimated how small the Quake community is, it is more like an extended family of about 20 people. I decided to give the idea one last shot with marketing and setup a MODdb page which I pimped non stop for a month and even that is still limited. I emailed lots of internet news/magazine sites and got absolutely no interest. I thought it was a quake thing (game over 15 years old and not looking like the latest GFX candy) but this is not the case, they do report quake news but no one liked this MOD enough to report it.

obsidian wrote:
Steam Workshop might be a better idea, but it currently only supports a handful of games.

I even thought about the Steam route (greenlight) but without the fanbase it will not get the votes needed. Unfortunately the news of this project here is bad timing because the MOD is not being developed anymore because I need to do other projects. (financial reasons) The Demo does feature a lot of new content which anyone can download and play with but there is no plans for more from me.

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Eraser
Cool #9

Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 44138

Posted: 02-13-2013 04:07 AM

sock wrote:
I decided to give the idea one last shot with marketing and setup a MODdb page which I pimped non stop for a month and even that is still limited. I emailed lots of internet news/magazine sites and got absolutely no interest. I thought it was a quake thing (game over 15 years old and not looking like the latest GFX candy) but this is not the case, they do report quake news but no one liked this MOD enough to report it.

It's hard. I've recently released a videogame I created in my spare time. I mailed some indie gaming sites to see if they were interested in writing a short review, but I got no replies whatsoever to any of my mails, which was a bit of a disappointment, especially after reading all these "how to promote my indie game" articles which all basically state that gaming websites are hungry for news. I expected replies with "not interested" at the very least. The silence I got instead is just deafening. The only thing I got was that I was approached by this Italian gaming website who wanted to write a review. It was published last week, but it's all in Italian. This Google translate link might help a bit.

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sock
The Illuminated

Joined: 08 Sep 2000
Posts: 1085

Posted: 02-14-2013 05:25 AM

Eraser wrote:
I got no replies whatsoever to any of my mails, which was a bit of a disappointment

I completely agree, marketing a game is no easy task, infact it is harder than actually making games! I have read tons of articles on marketing and I still struggle with getting anyone interested in what I do. I think the whole process is really about having contacts or at least knowing who to contact to try and get noticed. The hardest point is certainly the lack of replies, even if it was a simple, thanks but no thanks it would be better than nothing. Unfortunately there is no easy answer to this, besides just keep mailing and producing content.

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fKd
Immortal

Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 2476

Posted: 02-15-2013 12:27 AM

I also have been following this. First read about it over at func_msgboard. So amazing man. Keep going! Would gladly chip in if you start a kick starter or vote if ya go the steam route. Keep us posted yeah?

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lightmill
Trainee

Joined: 27 Nov 2011
Posts: 42

Posted: 02-15-2013 01:15 PM

Do you see a possibility of converting it to standalone game? (since you redid most of the game code, you have your own textures, and all the maps are new, and the engine is open source anyway)
Quake 1 modding scene been pretty much dead for 10 years unfortunately

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Quake3World.com | Forum Index | Level Editing & Modeling

Interesting work brushmonkey has been up to.

I've been following this somewhat for a couple months now. It's the coolest mod I've seen for any of the Quake games aside from Q3. I really want to play it.

Well, with Entity Plus as a single player mod for Q3 and other games being posted here, I thought the articles are indeed relevant. Talking feedback and gameplay is never lame and we like this type of monkey business.

That indeed looks awesome sir. I can already see the speedruns, although I don't think it will be that hard, only having watched the first movie.

DLC's are usually "official" content created by the developers and I believe Steam has a rather steep entry fee/royalty that may make it difficult for just a mod. Steam Workshop might be a better idea, but it currently only supports a handful of games.

New content for Steam goes through Steam Greenlight, which costs you $100 (I think) entry fee and then only if it receives more votes than the other submitted content it will be allowed on Steam. That system just sucks IMO

I also have been following this. First read about it over at func_msgboard. So amazing man. Keep going! Would gladly chip in if you start a kick starter or vote if ya go the steam route. Keep us posted yeah?

Do you see a possibility of converting it to standalone game? (since you redid most of the game code, you have your own textures, and all the maps are new, and the engine is open source anyway)Quake 1 modding scene been pretty much dead for 10 years unfortunately

Do you see a possibility of converting it to standalone game? (since you redid most of the game code, you have your own textures, and all the maps are new, and the engine is open source anyway)
Quake 1 modding scene been pretty much dead for 10 years unfortunately