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Topic Starter Topic: dmr3tourney1 by DOOMer - beta 3
_DOOMer_
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PostPosted: 02-25-2013 07:04 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


dmr3tourney1 by DOOMer
beta 1 Beta 2 Beta 3

Description:
This is a small tourney map for vanilla Quake 3. Map layout inspired by old Q2-map "Power trip" by Hipshot, but it's no copy brush to brush and entity to entity. Map is small and not usead a curves - only brushes. I'm used texture set by Evillair, and light texture from Evillair's eQ2 set (and one created texture by me, based on one eQ2 light texture).

Weapons and items:
RL, PG, LG, RG and 2xSG
RA and YA
ammo for all used wapons

Sxreenshots:
Image

Image

Image

Image

Additional info:
Map is almost all player clipped, and have some bot clips for bots may be taking armors. Bots are poor used jaump pads, and bots litle use of the second tier.

Download
dmr3tourney1.zip (ZIP, 4.5 megabytes, Direct Link to file)



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Last edited by _DOOMer_ on 10-27-2013 07:21 AM, edited 3 times in total.
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themuffinman
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PostPosted: 02-25-2013 08:59 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Nice! I've been looking to port the map over to Q3 for a while but I've battled to see how it could work being fundamentally cramped as hell... but this shows promise, even if it's very different. :up:

In the original the atrium ceiling gave opportunities to inflict splash damage on your opponent, which is impossible here. I think that's a change for the worse so I recommend either bringing back those vents along the ceiling like in the original or putting back a low ceiling.

The transparent shader doesn't weapon clip in some places. For the sake of consistency you should make it the same everywhere.

The lack of GL is a pity. Maybe add one in the LG ammo corridor? It really helps to put pressure on your opponent from the upper atrium.

BTW it's Powertrip by headshot :sly:
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AEon
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PostPosted: 02-25-2013 10:35 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Some feedback:

  • It would be good to player clip the glass on the upper floor of the central arena. Presently walking on the glass and then off will bump you up, like a "brutal step".
  • The glass texture alignment between the glass under the here shards and the long glass panel on the floor is miss-aligned. I first though you had forgotten to use some nodraw on the glass brush edges, but that seems to be not the case.
  • The lower RL corridor IMO has a too low ceiling, jumping will make you bump your head.
  • Some of the other doorways, especially when you come down stairs and jump will also make you hit the walls, bumping your head. Slightly higher doorways should not mess with the design too much, I think, and fix the issue.
  • I am not much of a fan of having to jump onto a box or boxes to get at items, here the YA and the RA, especially since the bots will not be able to get those items. For the YA you need to set the FPS to 125 to barely be able to get onto its box. Hmmm... IMO not really necessary and gimmicky. Lowing the box to 30% its height or adding a low ledge here so that the bots can pick up the YA should be better. Same is true, IMO, for the RA.
  • The glass shader is two-sided apparently, many wall niches that use glass thus look weird since you are looking through glass (front brush face) into glass (far side of the brush face). Some more use of nodraw on the far side of the glass brush face IMO would be better.
  • The corridors feels very cramped, dark and closed in. If you could put the skybox behind all the glass wall niches, the map would look a lot more friendly, with the illusion of actually being able to look outside. Would probably also bring in some more light.
  • Suggesting only one bot, presently only Doom, may not be enough to fill up the map in DM, I added Klesk and Deamia for DM additionally.
  • The blue JP triangle near the lower RL, IMO, should be pointing to the wall not from it, to better hint that this is the direction you will be exiting on the upper level. I always accidentally jump away from the wall instead of "into" it here.

Hope that makes some sense.
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_DOOMer_
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PostPosted: 02-25-2013 05:46 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thanks for your feedback :)

2 themuffinman
Quote:
so I recommend either bringing back those vents along the ceiling like in the original or putting back a low ceiling.

Where this place? In central area? Sorry, I'm bad understand that your recomendation :(

Quote:
The lack of GL is a pity. Maybe add one in the LG ammo corridor? It really helps to put pressure on your opponent from the upper atrium.

May be it good, I'm add GL in next beta release.

Quote:
it's Powertrip by headshot

oh yeah, I mixed up nicknames: (

2 AEon
Quote:
It would be good to player clip the glass on the upper floor of the central arena.

Yes, clip brushes at "glass floor" need to upper.

Quote:
The glass texture alignment between the glass under the here shards and the long glass panel on the floor is miss-aligned. I first though you had forgotten to use some nodraw on the glass brush edges, but that seems to be not the case.

No, I'm used nodraw shader on the sides of glass floor brushes. Align glass texture visually in the editor window is difficult because the editor solid white texture for this shader.

Quote:
The lower RL corridor IMO has a too low ceiling, jumping will make you bump your head.

Yes, this corridor can be extended upwards and to one side.

Quote:
Lowing the box to 30% its height or adding a low ledge here so that the bots can pick up the YA should be better. Same is true, IMO, for the RA.

Bots are normal pick up the RA on crates. Him helps for it oblique bot clip brushes. In YA room I'm lower box in next release.

Quote:
The corridors feels very cramped, dark and closed in. If you could put the skybox behind all the glass wall niches, the map would look a lot more friendly, with the illusion of actually being able to look outside. Would probably also bring in some more light.

Some corridors dark and closed by design. I probably will not do skybox behind all the glass wall niches - map designed "closed" with no views on open space. But may be expand some places.

Quote:
Suggesting only one bot, presently only Doom, may not be enough to fill up the map in DM, I added Klesk and Deamia for DM additionally.

Ok.

Quote:
The blue JP triangle near the lower RL, IMO, should be pointing to the wall not from it, to better hint that this is the direction you will be exiting on the upper level. I always accidentally jump away from the wall instead of "into" it here.

Yes, I'm forgotten make it in first beta. And as the size of JPs, normal? Or it may be to make smaller them?



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AEon
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PostPosted: 02-25-2013 11:18 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


  • About the glass texture alignment in the main arena upper floor, thought as much. What you can do in the editor is manually offset all textures to zero. I.e. select one glass texture face (Ctrl+Shift+LMB-click), then press Shift+A to select all brushes with a glass texture on them, to then manually "Unlock" change the HShift/VShift to 0 in the Surface Inspector (S-key) and the Apply.
    Or one can also manually do a texture offset copy/paste using Ctrl+Shift+LMB-click to select the source face and then use Ctrl+Shift+MMB to paste the texture and offset to the other glass faces.
  • As far as I can tell the size of the JPs is OK, though I did note that when you use the RL JP to get to the upper level you do tend to bump into the upper part of the wall slightly. But I was using air control.

Everything else seems to coming along nicely.
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kaustic
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PostPosted: 03-16-2013 01:32 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The only thing I felt I could comment on is , that the size of the map does not warrant a Rail Gun. I think it would be better
to put either a Grenade Launcher there or another Rocket Launcher. Everything else seems fine to me.
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_DOOMer_
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PostPosted: 03-27-2013 09:09 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


2AEon
Thanks for your help.

2kaustic
I added GL on the map, but has not no deleted Raligun. Weapon balance is needed a testing, I'm planned release beta2 on this weekend,

Some new screens:

Image

lower RL corridor was slightly extended.

Image

Adding cross beam on top of the central hall (like at original "Powertrip" map).



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_DOOMer_
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PostPosted: 04-09-2013 01:26 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


White Meza [dmr3tourney1] by DOOMer
Beta 2

Cnanges:

  • Now map is lighter.
  • Fixed clip brushes on a glass floor.
  • Some expand lower corridor to the RL.
  • Stairs leading to the corridor to the RL, is replaced by an inclined surface.
  • Some upper celling in the corridor with RG and his ammo.
  • Add GL.
  • SG near jumppad to the YA - moved to YA-room.
  • Changed "podium" under YA.
  • Changed weapon respawn's "markers".
  • Slightly widened doorway between the corridor with LG and a staircase leading to the room with YA.
  • Lattice over the central hall is replaced by a single crossbar..
  • Some changes ammo layout.
  • Added teo bots into .arena file.
  • Added secret easer egg location with BFG (experimental feature, which asked some people from forums.quakegate.ru - may be it will be removed on final version). Thanks for dONKEY for your stuff.

Screenshots

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Download
White Meza (dmr3tourney1) - bets2 (ZIP, 7.8 megabytes, Direct Link to file)



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AEon
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PostPosted: 04-09-2013 06:00 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I seem to have been bored out of my tears :)... I use this site (http://zxing.org/w/decode.jspx) to decode you QR code icons
Code:
dec_lg.jpg      -> Lighning Gun
dec_rtx_02.tga  -> cannot be decoded!
dec_rtx_03.tga  -> cannot be decoded!

Result... one typo and two images that do not decode. Testing your map now :ninja:

Update: I am not seeing the lighter grey texture on the floor, on the LG level. The room behind the glass sliding doors (leading to the secret) is completely untextured on a clean install. And I am seeing masses of warnings:
Code:
trying textures/NULL.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/998207F9681005F2DE9A8EFAC7A06D71.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/EB6813A75A313B84827020CE523BA69F.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/6149CA8DD243491615C037ACA5143EF7.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/EE74947AFC412E2D63E1911044415458.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/F5DDFC350AA1A714C0DB4AA3EE4F76DF.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/35014B9198D5E04C2DF8C212F58D9072.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/2215EADB4F58AAB7283BB653152DE614.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/63A4097E224B2697DD012F96F8EF868B.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/A0B765D7CB6DE9C90DB2C4A0D9915999.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/1C1DEEC5090CA0EC95F882B3650E3D4D.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/8F5EF044AE657362EFA3C4B4D460EE15.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/C6DF2DAC8160FDD2A25C671611CFC2F6.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/3D7E1FEC5E3C54F51605ABCCA73708E7.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/F20A34E2E7CAD5B75A49F27C9A4EE220.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/F845DF643AF4E4C20AA16CB327C7F1D2.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/ADFAEDB69EE67E6E4857843CE74E8B61.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/69094EDD31CB5CD1B3ACF28A0214FD6E.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/E92723F177EFC1F20661D99B3C049418.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/7381C05E26B033C595B7821BC3D475E4.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/415D4B8AAD5DE5002030A5F46A27C7E5.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/899B79A904A449131C537020C873F2A9.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/54142E849DB5B362CC20F22A3A6C302F.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/99EFEA5C1355C5001C0B13B0A9F5AEEC.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/E0B48437BDFF482C38B8FB4AFAAA680D.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/2A292225AACD2329383AAA0C4A74A2D0.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/2E5790F024ED88C77BDC8F65575BEDCB.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/413E7AA7660F1DAB06C136346E67CFD6.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/66CA1F3A862804F7B3B67A23FEF3B733.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/65871D5A9FA199CC778A90B9797A9171.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/6FABFBD1DF02FE1E5157F072EEF5A109.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/36E14325FEE8E38AD3EFE1899E26EC28.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/5A73E1355026818582769483E7B56B25.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/CC2A675717B35A7A400D0CE7CB0D555E.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/4715276C91F0656C570113E31286AA6B.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/FDD03A536A7968E9CC86732C2C28B7E7.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/273F55221ABB8D8E0F2D9E0DB514E518.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/2C1276D4E694A41F232DAE932E6BFF36.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/585EE6382B780875831DDDFC591EAA8C.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/2519827B41AF51FC5579AB9CA95355FB.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/F07489DBF0D628C713B48645AB2ACEB8.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/67703586AB59C58C9457A555F750E8CE.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/8049D70D1A3DCFA297D6D3EA56ED89AE.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/C17D143749ED8A781AAC8B056173D766.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/38A6C798349E7ED167C0D160B4F28E22.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/07966D8608C9E57EDD79B2866DC9C446.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/3840B903CC2F808E7C0F002BEA4BEC67.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/D2D6F2429DA229F147F1A4638AC1E9CC.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/2AEF466020ABF315FF7D955CFC1B86A9.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/78D6F2FBED4BA90163C3F59ADBDCFAD3.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/11B11D58A6DEFC1798AF63EFD5D2CFDC.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/0C85B5DF83EF7FF1BAF819020D4BD7F1.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/100DCC280F2CB34306895B3E3D66EE72.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/31D0104CA23BEDF7F17E7B5E67B08770.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/9ABE87D524B00359FCC38BF5F7FECB3C.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/0BC7DD7755F82EB69C7CD2E840A1E90D.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/0F65E5D718029828397A214996B2D717.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/A064C2144017F3A161AC6D89A5507B7D.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/431F37BA53A27892AB133E83BAEE316D.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/A7971B1757F0997953B208D1BF3CC623.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/3111FAE5A3A12918CED44480FB56313B.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/988365080AA29567F038DDC10AA64048.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/06F34F9FE6BC1ABDFB18961674D6BD62.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/9F87798DC8E863741A3B46258036C09A.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/2E580B704B6A815F367D84922D1A4EF5.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/772661B5A5186C73E1A16FC04E4591A7.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/6D332E3D649B8F599585B183D694713E.TGA...
trying dmr3tourney1/D1868C05129A949C63408A59E075CD55.TGA...
WARNING: reused image textures/dmr3tourney1/pinksky/20b_rt.tga with mixed
glWrapClampMode parm
WARNING: reused image textures/dmr3tourney1/pinksky/20b_bk.tga with mixed
glWrapClampMode parm
WARNING: reused image textures/dmr3tourney1/pinksky/20b_lf.tga with mixed
glWrapClampMode parm
WARNING: reused image textures/dmr3tourney1/pinksky/20b_ft.tga with mixed
glWrapClampMode parm
WARNING: reused image textures/dmr3tourney1/pinksky/20b_up.tga with mixed
glWrapClampMode parm
WARNING: reused image textures/dmr3tourney1/pinksky/20b_dn.tga with mixed
glWrapClampMode parm
WARNING: reused image textures/dmr3tourney1/jungle_rt.tga with mixed
glWrapClampMode parm
WARNING: reused image textures/dmr3tourney1/jungle_bk.tga with mixed
glWrapClampMode parm
WARNING: reused image textures/dmr3tourney1/jungle_lf.tga with mixed
glWrapClampMode parm
WARNING: reused image textures/dmr3tourney1/jungle_ft.tga with mixed
glWrapClampMode parm
WARNING: reused image textures/dmr3tourney1/jungle_up.tga with mixed
glWrapClampMode parm
WARNING: reused image textures/dmr3tourney1/jungle_dn.tga with mixed
glWrapClampMode parm
stitched 0 LoD cracks


Please fix these issues and I will gladly test the map properly.
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obsidian
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PostPosted: 04-09-2013 10:36 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Those "trying dmr3tourney1/..." textures are due to external lightmaps. You can safely ignore those.

Null.tga and other errors should be fixed.



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_DOOMer_
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PostPosted: 04-09-2013 09:16 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ops. I'm forgot put q3map2_dmr3tourney1.shader and some textures, who been generated q3map2 for one blinking light in hidden room. I'm recompiled and updated map. Redownload please.



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AEon
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PostPosted: 04-10-2013 06:26 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I noted a few things:
  • When you run the corridor from the RL (JP) all the way to the double-SG-ammo JP you will run up a ramp, the upper doorway edges are patches. The one on the "doorway" leading to the double-SG-ammo JP seems to be missing a texture on the left edge (the patches "cap").
  • There is another such patch on the upper doorway right behind the one mentioned above. Seems like the patches are not quite there, since I tend to see sparklies on them. Not sure what is up with those.
  • The secret area with the jump and run element is colourful. But I would like to see that green on your main map in a few areas even more. I.e. as an expanded theme of some outside intruding the rather "sterile" greys.
  • Even more so I would love some windows, your skybox is nice, so show it more. E.g. a window behind the LG or behind the glass doors next to the RA in the central arena... etc. Presently the map is pretty friendly feeling-wise, due to your ceiling openings, but a few windows would definitely add "happy" :toothy:

  • Klesk goes for the RA, he glides up the boxes... looks a bit uncanny, let us call it botclip magic. This is fine with me... as long as the bots grab the RA.
  • The LG JP that leads up to the RG seems to be quite popular with the bots as well. So that part of the map is being used.
  • <disclaimer on ;)>The following is just a suggestion for things that you maybe have already seen as non-problems. I have not seen the bots use them... but I may just not have played the map enough yet:
    • I am not really sure the other JPs are used, e.g. the RL one. I suspect due to the way (if you run into the JP and keep pushing forward you bump into the wall before you, instead of performing a clean jump onto the upper level). The id maps use concave openings in walls to help avoid this. You might like to think about adding something "concave but rectangular" here to avoid hitting the wall.
    • The secret door JP, may also not be used or work for bots.
    • Not sure bots get the YA.
    <disclaimer off ;)>

  • Over all the bots like the central lower area where most of the action happens... not too surprising and probably at least in part intended. That is fine. It might help to move the RA e.g. near the secret door JP (far away from the YA), just to get bots to roam more. Just a thought.
  • The corridor sizes feel pretty much fine, so the changes you made helped. I do at times have the feeling some of the ceilings are a bit low. The part where the JP only jumps by what feels like only half the normal ceiling hight. But that is probably also intended to keep any vertical fighting "vertically compact".
  • You might convert all your QR icon images to 32bit (IIRC) TGA to make them transparent. IMO that would look better. A few weapon pads, probably the JPG ones do not completely match the floor colour (due to shadows I am guessing). So textures with alpha should be the better option.
  • Potential suggestions in layout are of no real use since you are trying to recreate an existing map IIRC? Don't have any for now. But I might think about some if that is of relevance.

I had fun playing the bots, though I tend to jump down into the JP pits more than actually take them up. Which is strange, or just a sign I don't know how the play the map.

Hope this is of some use.
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_DOOMer_
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PostPosted: 04-11-2013 12:56 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AEon, thanks for your feedback.
Quote:
When you run the corridor from the RL (JP) all the way to the double-SG-ammo JP you will run up a ramp, the upper doorway edges are patches. The one on the "doorway" leading to the double-SG-ammo JP seems to be missing a texture on the left edge (the patches "cap").

Quote:
There is another such patch on the upper doorway right behind the one mentioned above. Seems like the patches are not quite there, since I tend to see sparklies on them. Not sure what is up with those.

Give me screenshots witih those, please.

Quote:
The secret area with the jump and run element is colourful. But I would like to see that green on your main map in a few areas even more. I.e. as an expanded theme of some outside intruding the rather "sterile" greys.

May be, may be. But i'm haven't experience of creating outdoor landscapes (mountains and rocks) in idTech mapping. I'm want to remove small celling holes (upper LG-RG jumppad, upper secret door - GL jumppad) and create wall window, with non-quadrat geometry.

Problems.
Quote:
I am not really sure the other JPs are used, e.g. the RL one. I suspect due to the way (if you run into the JP and keep pushing forward you bump into the wall before you, instead of performing a clean jump onto the upper level). The id maps use concave openings in walls to help avoid this. You might like to think about adding something "concave but rectangular" here to avoid hitting the wall.

Before this map I almost never used JPs in my maps.

Quote:
The secret door JP, may also not be used or work for bots.

Yes :( Bots are not use it JP. May be I'm replaced it with stair.

Quote:
Not sure bots get the YA

No, they are get the YA. But not very often. More they just ran across the room shooting each other.

Also bots almost do not go for the RL,

Quote:
Potential suggestions in layout are of no real use since you are trying to recreate an existing map IIRC? Don't have any for now. But I might think about some if that is of relevance.

No. I'm not recreate existing map, only inspired base layout. But due to problems with the bots, I want to rebuild some geometry (and layout of items may be very change). So any suggestions are welcome :)

Today I'm decided kill small JP to YA room, and make stair from lower corridor with SG ammo to YA.



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AEon
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PostPosted: 04-11-2013 04:23 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Where I am seeing the sparklies and the missing texture on the edge:



Will try to think a bit more about the layout.

The strange gap is probably due to non-grid-aligned brushes. Though normally that would make your map leak, i.e. mess up BSP/VIS compile completely.
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_DOOMer_
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Joined: 02 Aug 2012
Posts: 33
PostPosted: 10-27-2013 07:19 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


White Meza [dmr3tourney1] by DOOMer
Beta 3

Cnanges:
  • SG moved from YA-room to room under YA.
  • Removed podium under YA.
  • Added MH to the grates in the central hall (place instead RA).
  • RA placed near the JP to GL.
  • GL place small changed.
  • Little change placement of the spawn points and some small items.
  • Bot playing is little better (they are used JPs).
  • Little changes of the lights in the corridor near JP to YA-room.
  • Add some windows in the some walls.
  • Fixed some small visual bugs.

Screenshots

Image

Image

Image

Image

Download
White Meza (dmr3tourney1) - bets2 (ZIP, 7.8 megabytes, Direct Link to file)



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AEon
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4493
PostPosted: 12-05-2013 02:20 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Just remembered that the doorways used to use patches that had sparklies, that is now no longer an issue since all the "doorways" are pretty much square holes in the walls. But that is OK.

I really like the windows and the skybox.

Just started testing the gameflow... hmm... I keep either having to jump up a lot via JP or fall down into a JP "pit"... this does tend to cut-up any smooth gameflow, IMO.

Some of the lower areas have relatively low ceilings, dropping the floors here by additional 30% (floor-ceiling height) might help give those lower areas more "generosity", though I do see the downside of this, the "drop" from the upper floors would get larger as well, potentially adding to the "vertical tearing" in the gameflow.
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