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Topic Starter Topic: MSG Mapping Comp- Sector 9 "The Cytherean Outpost"

Veteran
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PostPosted: 07-07-2013 05:48 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


For the first time ever I actually made a sketch of a map and worked from it to get most of my layout.
Of course I had to make adjustments because of my wonderful drawing skills weren't to scale. I had
originally thought I would do this map with another level to it but have since decided that I'm going to
go with a map more suited for 1v1, 2v2, 4 DM.
Anyway at present it has no clipping ,weapons ,items ,and minimal lighting. The map is sitting in a box
I applied the sky texture to so I could compile it and get a look at it. Figured I'd put up here for commenting.
Just remember I don't have a lot of time left to be making major changes. :)

Edit- 25 May 2018- Updated D/L's in my last post.




Last edited by kaustic on 05-25-2018 06:31 PM, edited 5 times in total.

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Boink!
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PostPosted: 07-08-2013 08:49 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


A few "early" notes:

  • I like your light-coloured wooden steps... would be neat to see more non-dark dirty crete in the map, IMO.
  • Normally striped textures (i.e. yellow and black) are used to define edges that could mean a potential dangerous drop. You are using them (the reddish/grey stripes) as decorative borders along floor edges. Hmm... personally I felt there was too much red on the floor due to this, I constantly thought I was running on some weird form of blood. I noted you are using this reddish striped border *two* tiles wide instead of the more common *one* tile wide. Using only one tile width IMO could help reduce the "red" noise on the floor.
  • The tiled grey-smeared floor texture is quite detailed, i.e. the actual tiling is small. Somehow I feel there is too much going on on the floors, almost detracting. Larger less dark and smeared tiling might be better, you could then add smear decals where you think they would fit, instead of making most of the floors (except the metal) ones smeared.
  • Without bots and weapons it's hard to tell how well the layout works. My very first impression was it was pretty maze-like (Obsidian might call it "Corridor Cancer"). But after running around some more I have the feeling the map could have some interesting gameflow going. But that gameflow would need some clever weapon/item placement to make the most out of it.
  • I no-clipped up to your running ledge on the top of all your walls, jumping around up there was kind of fun. Though that will probably be clipped off I imagine.
  • Overall, I felt the map had a bit more potential to use vertical fighting (sorry for being this vague).
  • Be sure to add some more lights, several areas are almost black.
  • All in all the map reminded me of Daikatana, interesting, but very dark texture-wise overall.

Hope that helps.

Update: About deco... I am sure you have been considering some of the following.
  • The map presently is very consistent design-wise. In my book that is a good thing. It can make a map potentially monotonous and boring, though, so adding some stand-out geometry like a tower and/or a deep pit or some arc/grating might help break up the "sameness".
  • Flat water in your lower tube corridors might be interesting, also as audio cue.
  • This map could actually get away by using some lava trims, would fit the overall dark/moody look.
  • Personally I would love some windows and plants, but I always like those. :toothy:

But the first thing to test, IMO, is to add weapons/items, and compile the map for bots. That way it will be much easier to test the gameflow.




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Veteran
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PostPosted: 07-08-2013 04:39 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thanks for your input. The floors textures are at half scale (0.25000)of normal(0.50000). Been thinking of not clipping off the
upper ledge so as to kind of have another optional playing surface if one where to rocket jump up there. Its why I
textured it. Yes I was thinking of putting some water in the lower area. I also have some decals for that area too.




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Veteran
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PostPosted: 07-10-2013 01:37 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ok, the map now has bot support. I clipped off the map. You can get to the ledge easily by rocket jumping.
Of course the bots wont go up there. They don't seem to like using the jump pads either. Played with the
lighting, added some of this and some of that and resized the floor texture(I still like it better than anything
else I tried). Also the map is no longer in a box, I brushed out the sky to fit the map.

D/L- Edit: New file in latest post.




Last edited by kaustic on 07-19-2013 05:35 AM, edited 2 times in total.

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Boink!
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PostPosted: 07-11-2013 12:11 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I really like the lighting now, much more friendly. Some thoughts:

  • I was surprised to see the RG right next to the Quad. In the line of sight RG, Quad, RG ammo, I was thinking that the RG might be better placed were the RG ammo is, plus extrude a ledge were the RG ammo is, overlooking the lower entry to the "dungeons". This way the RG would be visible from everywhere in the RL "arena", i.e. making the RG exposed, but not too "available".
  • In the RL arena, on one side you have shards, on the other narrow ledge you could maybe add 5Hs? Just a thought.
  • Been thinking swapping the Quad with the RA locations, putting the Quad in the dungeon might be something to look into.
  • Some of the path, i.e. when going from the RG to the Quad, right path down stairs, and straight on to the RG ammo, stairs on the right, and then path to the PG... all these steps seem to be empty. A 25H or something somewhere on the platforms between steps might be a good thing to motivate using them more.
  • IMO, there is a slight ammo overdose in the dungeon.
  • Hope you will give the rock formations on the floor around the RA some more love, i.e. to make it look more raggedy-natural. I like the water down here.

On Bots (played FFA, on Hardcore):
  • You seem to be lacking player respawn points, entering the map I directly telefragges a bot near the Quad.
  • 6 Bots may be a bit much for this relatively small map, you might like dropping two, i.e. 4 bots should be enough.
  • IMO the dungeon needs a weapon to motivate the bots and the player to go down there, e.g. the LG.
  • Another way to get more action down in the dungeon, an area I pretty much completely ignore, because I don't "like" going there, is to add at least two spawn points there. Presently the action is centred around the stairs between GL, Quad and RG ammo strangely enough.
  • All the above ground gameplay seems to work nicely, I like running the paths up here.




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Veteran
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PostPosted: 07-19-2013 05:35 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Here is an update. Removed the QD ,I think the level is better off without it
Change some texture
Added some windows
Cut down on the ammo down below.
Still need to add some clips around the lights.
D/L -Removed , Will update soon.




Last edited by kaustic on 07-25-2013 05:56 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Boink!
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PostPosted: 07-20-2013 11:37 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Some more thoughts:
  • I like the windows... together with your Chinese-like roof design they make the "buildings" starts to look like buildings. You may want to try to experiment with different size windows and the use of grates in front of one or two, for variation.
  • I like the triangular light on the wall near the RG. Probably was there all the along, I just missed it.
  • Less ammo in lower level works, but I still find myself never entering the lower level area. Maybe some windows here as well, might help, and probably at least one weapon like the LG. I am not sure, but can it be that there is no respawn point down here, that might also help get players/bots here.
  • Something I have been wondering about. I noted your player spawns face away from the PG, RG and RL, spawing you below and in front of these weapons. Normally a respawn point would let your get a weapon relatively quickly, in all three cases you have to take the roundabout way to get one. This could be a design / gameplay choice, but I found it a bit aggravating. I am aware that you are really tight on space in the map, so placing the respawns elsewhere will not be easy or possible.
  • In case I missed it, a respawn near the SG and the GL might be something to look into.
  • And nice up the "rock" around the RA, the low-poly-ness of the presently looks bland, IMO.
  • I am normally not a fan of Teleports, but placing one behind the RA on the wall, might be something to look into... then again maybe not... just a thought, to add more gameflow in the lower part of the map.




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Veteran
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PostPosted: 07-21-2013 09:54 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


When I first started construction of this map I didn't have one particular theme I thought was suitable for the textures I
had decided to use. I had many ideas but they all just didn't seem to fit. Then it came to me (before the first build I released
for testing) that I had always had this fascination with the Dry Tortugas and in particular Fort Jefferson. This is where I found
my inspiration. Not in the architecture itself but the fact that it was a Fortress that was converted into a prison. So don't think
of yourself as looking at buildings but looking at the walls that imprison you.
Links- http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=for ... &FORM=IGRE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_Tortugas




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Boink!
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PostPosted: 07-21-2013 10:38 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Looking at those screenshots, I would go for windows that look out onto water and beach, and turn up the sun ;).

Adding some more architectural details like arcs might be neat though.




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Veteran
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PostPosted: 07-21-2013 01:32 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I was stationed in Key West for 4 years during my time in the Navy. I never made it out to Garden Key, although
I did do a lot of diving ,snorkeling and fishing. Of all the places I was stationed at, the ones I liked the most where
Key West and Scotland. The closest I ever got to Germany was passing through the Kiel Canal.




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Veteran
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PostPosted: 07-31-2013 09:39 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ok been busy the last few days and got some things done. Worked a lot on the upper portion and clipped it off.
There are a few places you may get snagged if you spend all of your time rubbing up against the outside wall as
far up as you can go so I don't see it as an issue. The bots still don't like the jump pads and adding botroams
just made them jump on the jp's numerous times before going off to other things (even with low weight settings).
Here's the new pk3.
D/L - In latest post.




Last edited by kaustic on 08-04-2013 05:45 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Boink!
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PostPosted: 07-31-2013 11:36 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Feedback on the design changes:
  • I really like all the vaguely "asian-inspired" brushwork at the top of the map in wood. There is even a Xaero model up there. Neat.
  • I like the light textures you are using on all the steps.
  • The subtle fog really helps accentuate the lower part of the map, and adds slight creepiness to it.
  • The APs... I was about to suggest to put them on geometry not flat on the floor, when I noted your very subtle brushwork for them. Like them a lot, especially the metal edges.
  • You seem to have added many white-squarish lights, seem nice as well.
  • Nice levelshot.
  • The sewer area rock still looks too much like low-poly triangles. The very angly brushes here look out of place, IMO.

About the upper area walkways:
  • Hmm... at first glance I am a bit torn. I feel that the relatively concise gameflow suddenly gets doubled, thus inadvertently bloating the map. Sure it might be fun to run up there, for a bit, but this introduces a huge amount of chaos to the map, i.e. you could be camped out from above from any point in the map.
  • The RA and the RG ammo have a direct AP, the MH does not. You have to take the really really long-winding way from the RA. I am pretty sure no one will bother running that path. OK, it just occurred to me you can Rocket Jump, but since you die in the map quickly enough, using a RJ to get up there would kill the player even faster. So I am not really sure the upper paths help.
  • If you really want to use those upper paths as a central feature, some more conventional paths up there might be good, i.e. at least one stairway, and maybe another JP.
  • The upper ledge texture you walk on should then also be some form of "flooring tile", not just plain stone, IMO.
  • I especially feel that the walkways up there on the ledge would then need to be made wider about 30%, because presently one does have to really concentrate to not fall off them.
  • If not already done so, respawn points up here, if only for the bots would also be a valid thing to contemplate.

Testing the gameplay against bots next...

Update:
  • Actually play testing those ledges showed me that I was wrong. They just work, I was able to almost blindly strafe along the walls do small jumps all the while firing down at the bots. Or running backwards into the AP to grab the RA, to continue shooting down. Works really nicely. No one is forced to run about up there but one can. And this adds a certain degree of jump/run skill requirement to the map that is fun as well.
  • Gameplay, IMO, is fun and fast.
  • Still think something needs to be done about the MH, e.g. place it where the RG ammo is to get at is via AP more directly.
  • And the quick death rate in the map, does indeed make it difficult to manage the significant health impact of rocket jumps to make the MH access practical in such a fast-paced map.




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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 07-31-2013 11:37 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


LEM threads without pictures :(




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Veteran
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PostPosted: 08-01-2013 05:18 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Here are some pics.




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Veteran
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PostPosted: 08-01-2013 05:23 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


And some more




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Veteran
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PostPosted: 08-01-2013 05:23 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The last 3.




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Cool #9
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PostPosted: 08-01-2013 05:29 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Looks nice! Not sure if I like the brownish sky though. It fits the theme but it does make the whole thing look rather brown. A different color sky might add a bit more contrast.




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I'm the dude!
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PostPosted: 08-01-2013 06:45 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Those towers look like they need some kind of purpose. They're not there for structural reasons. Maybe put some spotlights on them, or make them supports for chimneys or mechanical equipment.

I would also do a little more to vary the height of the skyline a bit. Perhaps put some fake structures in the distance to break up the horizon line a bit.



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Veteran
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PostPosted: 08-01-2013 01:01 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Funny you should mention the towers Obsidian because I've been thinking that I need to give them a purpose
and was leaning toward spot lights and antennas.




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This is not Æon!
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PostPosted: 08-01-2013 01:55 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hmm, I don't like the water parts. The shaft isn't good enough to force me down there in that slow pit =) Even if it's my favorite weapon.

I think that the texture with the cracks or whatever on the wall, are upside down, at least it looks like that when I look at the shadowing?



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Theftbot
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PostPosted: 08-01-2013 02:04 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


WHOA its Hipshot




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Veteran
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PostPosted: 08-04-2013 05:43 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Messed around with a few things that were suggested. Some worked out some didn't.
What I did do is, Alter the roofline and applied phong shading to the roof tile texture.
All the hip joints look a lot better and for one in particular it really helped. Phong
shading can be a wonderful thing :) . I Completely rebuilt the ceiling in the lower
area (where the lightning gun is). No more harsh angles. I kept the texture though
(one of Kats stone textures) and the shader for it. Gave the towers something to do
and added a billboard for when we finally get the sponsor textures. Applied floor tile
texture to the upper rim. Still not sure if I like it or not.
D/L - Removed, Lots of texture changes and brushwork, will update soon.




Last edited by kaustic on 08-09-2013 08:51 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 08-04-2013 09:56 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Consistency time :toothy:
  • I noted you are using the roundish deep-red-orange/grey striped pads for weapon respawn, well for the SG and GL at least. You might like considering making them about 1/3rd less large to give them more subtlety.
  • More of these pads are at the foot of (in front of and below of the) RL and the PG, and in front of the RG. These are not used any longer. You could place the RG ammo on the one in front of the PG, and put a 25H in front of the RG IMO. No idea what would go in front of the RL though, You might want to drop the RL pad altogether. The LG needs a pad as well, IMO.
  • Now I noted you are using lighter yellow/orange/grey stripes for the metal floor pads, i.e. under the PG and the RL. I like those more to be honest. The pad under the RG is still missing though.
  • This could turn out to be ugly, work-wise... but I noted that the textures on the tube leading to the LG are inconsistent in detail. From afar they look fine. The floor metal ones are detailed (this is OK), but especially the angled (with rivets) upper ones look blurry in comparison. I am not sure that you can do here. But it does look strange when you look at the floor and the the angled ones up there once sharp, once blurry.
  • About the texture on your upper ledges. Yep, your present texture does not look very nice IMO. I would use your much nicer yellow/orange/grey finer stripe texture here. On the top side I'd add a 1/5th or 1/4th the width of the path there to the outside edges, i.e. as warning trims for a potential fall. The rest of the upper ledges I'd reuse the stone texture you had in a previous iteration. This is the top of the ledge. Personally I would also add the yellow/orange/grey stripe on the upper *side* of the ledges (height about 1/4th of them). To make it cleared when looking from below, something is going on up there, and it has to do with falling.
  • On all the entry points to the LG tubes you added double-rectangular lights to the angled trim. I can see the idea behind this, as an entry point marker, but these look strange, IMO, and ugly. Better to try and find some "asian-styled" oil lamp models or something along those lines as deco here.
  • New path idea?! The red-onrage/grey striped pad in front of the RG might actually be used as a drop-down hole to the LG area IMO. Or maybe even be a two-way path with another JP. Alternately you might like to simply put a grate up there, to let you look into the dungeon (and out of it). And also get some skylight into the dungeon. This came to me because the round pad seemed so "lost" in the RG arena.
  • Should you go for the perilous grate idea, some vines (*greenery*!) hanging in the dungeon would *really* make the place look more organic. And also also break up the monotony of all the crete in the map.
  • More greenery in the upper floor areas from cracks in walls would also be nice.

Other thoughts:
  • Moving the MH as destination of the AP was a good thing IMO.
  • Overall your ledges up there are pretty empty. Some 5H and Shards might be a motivation to move more up here.
  • I used noclip to take a very close look at the round tops of your antennas. The spheres actually have cracks in the edges... strange. Not built on grid? I like the antennas though, look nice and motivate the towers more. Maybe span a few "roundish" cables up here as extra deco.




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Veteran
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PostPosted: 08-09-2013 08:43 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm having Technical Difficulties with one section of my map. I have applied Phong shading to some of my
textures to soften out the sharp angles . In most places its working just fine but in one area its not.
First 2 screenshots you can see are looking fine but the last one you can see that the outside windows are
only half working and have black shadow to the inside. Had the shadow problem in my last comp map but
not sure if the fix for that is relevant here. This is the shader(from Soc's Tutorial). I was messing with the
shade angle to see if it would help (went from 45 up to 90) but no help. If I remove the q3map_nonplanar
will the shader still work as intended?

textures/aty3dm9/wall4
{
q3map_nonplanar
q3map_shadeangle 90
qer_editorimage textures/aty3dm9/wcrete4.tga
{
map $lightmap
rgbGen identity
}
{
map textures/aty3dm9/wcrete4.tga
blendFunc filter
}
}




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AT_Phong2.jpg
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AT_Phong3.jpg
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Veteran
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PostPosted: 08-13-2013 07:55 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Well being persistent pays off sometimes. I tried quite a few different things to fix the Phong
shading issue ,one of which was completely rebuilding those walls to make absolutely sure
that the where on grid but it didn't help I still had the ugly black shadow blobs and the corner
angles still looked sharp. Well the last thing I tried at least fixed the shadow blobs. As for the
rest of it I'm still working on.




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Veteran
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PostPosted: 08-14-2013 10:29 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Here is an update- Changed all of the floor textures. Removed all of the circles in the floor ,I had not
intended them to be weapon markers but just a way to embellish the floor. Applied decals to the floor.
All weapons have a stain under them ,so consider them markers. For the sake of giving it a name
"The Upper Running Ledge" has been completely rebuilt and retextured. Added a hole in the floor(with grate)
just above the lightning gun and you can fire weapons through it although I wouldn't recommend Rockets
:) . I had really considered suggestions about some vegetation in the map but to be honest its supposed
to be on Venus ,a very dead ,inhospitable place.
New pk3. - removed. Making some changes. Already fixed the missing textures(forgot to change them back
after I figured out the phong shading issue).




Last edited by kaustic on 08-16-2013 04:01 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Boink!
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PostPosted: 08-14-2013 10:47 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Comments:

  • The new window inside frame textures/aty3dm9/atypdw_crete.TGA is missing.
  • I love the new wood texture on the floor... looks way better.
  • Extra JP on the upper ledge helps, though I don't really see why anyone would run the paths up here. Now if you put the RG up here, away from the APs, then folks might actually put in some effort to get that weapon. For ammo I doubt anyone would run the paths up there, other than for fun maybe.
  • Your ad banner up between the towers looks nice. Though I doubt you will be able to get away with an ad switching... if you do, good thinking.
  • The stripy texture on all the upper ledges is OK, but not "great", IMO. I'd completely drop repeating that texture on the outside walls. It is completely enough to just use it on the edges where you can drop down. On the outside walls those stripes not only look ugly, but IMO are redundant.
  • The orange/black stripe texture, I only now noted. is the only texture presently that does not fit the overall colours in the map, it is too cartoony, whereas the rest of the textures are pretty realistic. I'd drop that texture and replace it with the stripes seen on the walls. More subtle and fits the colour scheme better, IMO.
  • Sigh... around the LG, the triangular geometry shape of the light crete texture looks way too low-polygon, ugly and unnatural. Please create some rock formation or anything else that has more detail here. By far the most un-aesthetic part of the map. I am pretty sure this will bring down an otherwise positive rating of the map.


Update, after playing against bots:

  • I actually did go the ledge path from the MH to the RA, and that was fun "camping" from up there.
  • Bots use the AP to the MH, from what I could tell. Not sure about the rest of what is up there is used by the bots.
  • Gameflow-wise this might be late, but personally I think the GL area level needs an extra JP up to the AP level, as a direct path up there. Presently you rocket jump from the GL (I don't) or need to take the long way around via PG and stairs. IMO, this would also add more "bouncy-ness" to the map, i.e. verticality in fighting.
  • The water in the lower level area makes that part of the map even more unappealing to me, it slows you down. Personally I try to avoid using that part of the map at all costs, and the bots do too. I know this is brutal, but I am really wondering of completely scrapping the cellar area. Or it needs some really creative rework. Compared to all the above ground which is tons of fun, the lower parts I actually hate. Sorry to be so blunt, but that area has been annoying me from the start.

    Maybe the cellar part needs to be sped up to make it more fun, e.g. use several APs down there to get you from one side of the map to the other via cellar in a fast way, i.e. to outflank players taking the above ground path. E.g. PG cellar entry has a TP that exists on the RL cellar exit (TPs are both ways).

    Or you need to cut a big hole in the ground, i.e. where the RG plaza is, to connect the bottom of the map with the mid level more, thus adding more vertical fighting as well. Anything along those lines would be better IMO.

Sorry again that I am bashing the cellar so much, but I actually really like playing the map, but as long as about 1/3 of the map - the cellar - is no fun to me at all, it really brings down the potential of the map.




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PostPosted: 08-17-2013 07:06 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote





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PostPosted: 08-18-2013 08:50 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm too tired at the moment to go through everything I've done. About ready to fall asleep at my computer.

Was about to face plant my keyboard last night :olo: . Anyway , I added an alternate route
through the lower level. Extended some of the upper ledge. Added a small area in the upper
area. Moved/added some items/ammo. Added a JP in the GL area. Added a TP (look for it
you'll find it). Removed the water from the lower level and changed the lower half of the walls.

Edit: I have found these bots seem to work better in the map. Xaero ,Visor ,Tank Jr ,Razor ,Patriot
Phobos ,Hossman.
Also Grunt ran the upper ledge. From the MH he went right to the JP then to the RG area before getting fragged.
Cadaver went from the MH to the left ,he got as far as the corner where you turn into the GL area before getting
fragged.

Anyway here is an update . D/L - http://www.mediafire.com/?bx7x12pufcufx9b




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PostPosted: 08-19-2013 10:15 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Holy cow that really turned into a frenzy... in a good way :owned:

  • The GL JP IMO really helps make that area more fluid, used that JP all the time.
  • The subtle TP is IMO a good thing.
  • I like the RG up there and the extra RL too. The bots seem to avoid running around up there though. Maybe add 2 or so bot only spawns up there, to "motivate them" somewhat.
  • The new cellar path is a bit quirky, but kinda nice, I like the way you JP up to the med level of the map. IMO a good thing too.
  • The biggest technical issue seems to be the fog that is just under the PG spawn point. It looks strange to have fog so close under you waking level. Hmmm... no idea what you did before but in the last release the fog worked better. Alas I cannot help here, since I never use fog. Lowering the fog by 1-2 step-heights might help.
  • Another "biggie"... since the upper level ledges is pretty much developing into a full set of paths I would suggest pushing back the outer walls by 100% of the current path width, this way the paths up there would be double the width and can then be considered *real* paths. A bitch to do since all your night geometry up there would have to move out too. But might be something to think about. Presently the paths, though fun, will not really be taken seriously due to the lack of path width, IMO.
  • In the cellar, near the LG you have two stairs coming in. Between those in the corner you will most likely get stuck. Maybe extend the steps of both stairs into the corner, to fill in the gap, or add some clipped deco here.
  • LG area not looks very flat and boring... maybe add a metal grate tower here in the middle of the room, or some other neat demo... maybe water under an interestingly grated floor or something other that is nifty. Or a statue?

Map is coming along nicely.

Update:
  • Noted it yesterday but forgot to comment. The RG and the upper RL have a wooden floor as "respawn pads". The floors in wood are OK, but I'd add a trim line around the wood to better accentuate if from the crete up there. Suggested trim: The metal edges near the lower RL should do.
  • Losing the outer wall stripes up on the ledges definitely looks better now.
  • I really like your metal towers and the wind howling up there.




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PostPosted: 08-20-2013 05:03 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The Fog, I may have had it down a bit before. I had moved it when I was working on the
decals. I did notice it was looking different and I hadn't done anything with the shader
for it. I was actually thinking those wood floors up there needed some kind of boarder
because the crosscut edges have no shadow to them and it doesn't look right. As for
pushing those upper walls out to extend the ledge, I'll have to try it out in one section
to see just how much work it'll be. It could turn out to be easy enough.




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PostPosted: 08-20-2013 09:50 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


If the pushing back should be worth the work, you might want to look into adding little "bridges", basically some form of metal grating like your towers that connect some of the ledge areas from the outer walls to the more central ledges so that the bots can actually navigate those areas. This should make the map up here look slightly more interesting, but keep the overall "danger" of falling or of letting folks up there shoot down. IIRC you added a few bot-only spawns up here? 1-2 player spawn points might also be good, to "integrate" the upper area more into the map, then. E.g. between the RA and the upper RL, and to the sides of the RG might work (the latter maybe not, to keep the RG special).




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PostPosted: 08-22-2013 06:04 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Well after checking if pushing the upper section out would be possible without a lot of major work ,I come to the
conclusion that it would be a lot of major work. On the other hand I did however extend them a little inward, which
has helped with the bots. In the main area I had a pillar that had a small wall and roof section on top and I had put
lightning ammo and health there. I removed the wall and roof and it is now a platform which Grunt jumped to after
snagging the Railgun. Grunt also took the long way around from the Red Armor to the Haste by way of the ledge.
I added another TP which is in the main section. I added some trim around the wood floors as suggested. I fixed
the fog. The fog is absolutely perfect. It blends in so well.(When I was messing around with the shader for it I
had left a digit off of the last number for the RGB and I got this neon blue glowing looking fog. I made a copy of
it for future use). I raised the floor by a couple of steps under the LG and put a statue in the corner between the
steps(its weapon clipped). Add some clipping and fixed some texture alignments I had missed. Adjusted some of
the lighting. The bots are using the JP's/AP's regularly now. Phobos went after the RL (above the GL area) via the
ledge after grabbing the RA. They are using the Lower passages too.(What I do to observe bots is to set the frag limit
to 90 ,the bots to 5(nightmare) and use 4 or 5 of them, then start the game and go spectator and just watch what they do).
Anyway here is the latest pk3. . D/L - http://www.mediafire.com/download/vv5pi ... sc2013.pk3

(The file is quite a bit smaller due to removing sound files I no longer needed).




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PostPosted: 08-25-2013 12:55 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Changes, IMO, look good.

  • Fog looks great again, nice and subtle.
  • The wider ledge paths now feel a lot more like real paths, so that worked pretty well.
  • Floor trims around the RG look a *lot* better now.
  • The new TP opposite of the Haste was a surprise. I am not completely sure about it, though. When you go LG, LG TP, to then go Haste TP you teleport twice, adding a lot of "skipping". Also you walk into the Haste TP, but exit on top facing 180° in the exact opposite direction. That had me a bit confused. Even though the Haste TP does look nice there, I wonder if it might not be better to exit the LG TP right up there on the platform. And either drop the Haste TP, or make it exit in the cellar? This is just me thinking... I usually have trouble with good "use" of TPs (changed them around numerous times in AEdm7).
  • The new platform, the one you Haste TP exit (near the RG) looks a bit out of place IMO. All the other geometry up here looks in place, but the platform looks like someone simply cut up geometry. Does that make any vague sense? Not sure what you can do, anything to make it look less flat on top, slightly more detailed would help. Add some wood with metal trim maybe.
  • When standing at the Haste, looking towards the TP, on the ledges on the right, you will note them angling upwards to meet the ledges under the ad towers. I completely understand why they angle up, but navigating them has been weird from the very start. Not sure what you can do here. Maybe add steps up here as well (maybe not). Anyway I am mentioning them because I tend to get "ramped" off the ledges up here, and then fall.
  • This is pretty much nitpicking. But your interesting JP textures (on round patches AFAICT) would IMO look a bit more interesting if they would "bulge" up a bit to give them some 3rd dimension. Something subtle like your APs would do the job. Presently they simply look very flat, though one expects them not to be.
  • Another idea regards the cellar. The statue in the corner helps and so does the clipping, though the two stairs still look a bit out of place. I was wondering if making the cellar a multi-height-level area (not huge heights mind you) could make the LG area less rectangular but asymmetrical. I was thinking of carving a bit into the PG tube and the Haste tube where they join the LG area. Just to make the combat area slightly less "tubey" and slightly more like several platforms. Helping to make the cellar slightly less flat. This might also help the "steps" here, better fit geometry-wise. And could possibly help make the combat area here slightly larger.

I thought I had nothing much to comment... so much for that, sorry.




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PostPosted: 09-19-2013 08:37 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I figured out what was messing up the fog. I had somehow deleted a structural brush and it caused the map to
leak. I replaced the missing brush ,did a leak test to make sure I had it fixed ,ran a build on the map ,gave it
a run through and the Fog was as it was before (I had this happen to me 2 times while building this map. The
first time I didn't realize it was the leak that caused the fog to look like crap).
Also I've still been working on the map. I'll have an update soon.




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