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Topic Starter Topic: Quake live ABC_beta04
xiripiti
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PostPosted: 02-03-2014 07:26 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Attachment:
abc_beta04_3.jpg
Attachment:
abc_beta04_2.jpg

Hi guys
This is Abc_beta04 for Quake Live
As my concern was to do something about the central groundfloor and how to make it less "boring", here is what I did:
moved all rooms a bit to the center of map. The result is a smaller central floor. However, rooms in all floors around kept the original size, as much as possible.
Also made 2 new wayouts from the center plaza, leading to the upper floors. Like this, no more that feeling of being trapped in the center map. Some "props" (e.g. crates) will be necessary here, coz it seems too naked.
Changed some items position: MH is now on the central ground floor, and RA is now where MH was before, on the top platform. But the bridge is no longer there, a jump - easy - is necessary to get RA. Bots can not make that jump, but who cares?...should I ???
After playing vs bots i think there are too many ArmorShards and HealthSmall all over the map...something to see.
I like the blue tone of the map, so I will keep that on the final textures. You can see 2 examples of that on the central plaza walls.
For Aeon: U said u have a few other thoughts about gameflow for this map...let me ear that:))
About the 2 corridors along the walls: after the changes on the groundfloor, they are not so long. I still think they are usefull.
Waiting for your comments

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u5o0ap3adctb9ru/abc_beta04.pk3
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Hipshot
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PostPosted: 02-03-2014 10:56 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Why do you keep creating new threads about the same level? =)



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xiripiti
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PostPosted: 02-04-2014 06:14 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hipshot wrote:
Why do you keep creating new threads about the same level? =)

Ho crap! Forgot it again...Gonna stick a post-it in the center of my screen.
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AEon
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PostPosted: 02-05-2014 12:27 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It might be good if one of you obsidian, Hipshot or cityy would comment on the map. I feel the map is becoming too biased by my point of view.
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cityy
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PostPosted: 02-05-2014 12:48 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I can try having a look next week. University is making love with me sideways right now.



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xiripiti
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PostPosted: 02-06-2014 10:37 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AEon wrote:
I feel the map is becoming too biased...

Sorry my poor english: What u mean by "biased"?
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AEon
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PostPosted: 02-06-2014 11:02 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That my way of mapping and thinking is influencing your map more and more, actually too much, so that your own vision and ideas are getting pushed back.
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xiripiti
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PostPosted: 02-08-2014 04:56 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AEon wrote:
...so that your own vision and ideas are getting pushed back.

Dont think so. My original idea stays the same in this beta 04. But...showed the map to some friends and all say the same: "boring".Think that the cubic shape of the layout and the symetrical distribution of all rooms makes the map not enough interesting. I must say -sadly- that the original idea was precisely make a very symetrical map with the rooms distributed along the external walls. However, I think it`s possible to make it more intersting while keeping some symetry. That will be my job for beta 05
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AEon
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PostPosted: 02-08-2014 06:20 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I still think that lowering/lifting up one half of the bottom-most floor would directly make the map more interesting. Your mid and upper levels have such variation in height and are thus more interesting. It is only the ground floor that still feels too flat IMO.
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Hipshot
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PostPosted: 02-10-2014 10:06 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AEon wrote:
It might be good if one of you obsidian, Hipshot or cityy would comment on the map. I feel the map is becoming too biased by my point of view.


Quake Live =( There should be a way to play these in Q3.



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cityy
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PostPosted: 02-11-2014 02:04 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hipshot wrote:
AEon wrote:
It might be good if one of you obsidian, Hipshot or cityy would comment on the map. I feel the map is becoming too biased by my point of view.


Quake Live =( There should be a way to play these in Q3.


http://quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=967428#p967428



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xiripiti
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PostPosted: 02-28-2014 05:59 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Attachment:
abc_beta05_2.jpg
Attachment:
abc_beta05_1.jpg

Hi again
Some important changes in this ABC_beta05.
1) Some rooms have been rescaled and repositioned. All map is now a bit more tight around the center.
2) one room on upper level do not exists.This interrupts the way around this level, making the player to find other ways.
3) reduced the number of health items
4) added a small bridge leading to RA. This was done thinking on bot play, humans do not need that.
With these changes I think the map is now much less "boring", and more fluid. There are now several ways to reach the same point of the map.

Start working in the textures also. For now I`m glad with it, but much more detailed textures will be needed, as also some more detailed objects.

Something weird happens when I play this map in a QLive server: some textures look deformed when we are far from them, but they are correct when we get close. Look at the ground mosaics and the stone walls. This do not happens when I play it on Wolfcamql. Any idea?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x5qh2igtq1wdh ... beta05.pk3
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AEon
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PostPosted: 03-01-2014 02:00 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It really seems to have been for the best that you had more time on your own to think about where you want to map to go, instead of me or others flooding you with "quick fix ideas". I very much like this version, textures look nice and the overall more compact layout works well. I am starting to get the feeling this could turn out to become a classic 1on1 map. But since I am no good at 1on1 cannot really help in that respect.

A few thoughts:

  • I like how the MH TP lets you get to the RA, and an easy (even for me) jump gets you to the RG, great path. You may want to think about the combo MH -> TP -> RA -> RG though, you quickly could pick up two power-ups and the RG, usually one of the more sought after weapons. Putting the RG somewhere less readily "available" might be good. E.g. in the YA med-level corridor, i.e. to make player use these less quickly available parts of the map more.
  • I really like how you can jump from the RL to the RG to the 3rd platform with the LG, and the med-level area under the RA. This way you can take shortcuts on the upper/med level of this side of the map to get to the other side. The TPs add additional quick links. This could make the map quite intense when good players are playing it (this is a good thing IMO).
  • Your lowest level in the map seems to be fine now, many exists but that lets the player move quickly.
  • Small aesthetic thing: The new bridge on the RA level, when exiting the TP, directly connecting the left and right side of the map, might still be niced-up slightly. Maybe use steps instead of ramps or something.
  • On the technical side, please ensure that you add clip (player clip) to all the columns protruding from walls, in such a way that you can slide along the walls without getting stuck. When running backwards I got stuck in quite a few areas. You probably already have that on your todo, just a reminder. Also it would be good to clip the metal-work around the RG, the RA and under the RA. When jumping "between" these metal tubes I sometimes get deflected or slightly held up, IMO, this has to do with lack of clipping.

  • Since this is becoming a small map, the short distances between the weapons cannot be helped. But it could help to give the gameflow one last think, e.g. what paths do you use, or think players will use, and then take note what the player will be able to pick up on those paths. And try to tweak them if need be.

    E.g. RL -> RG -> LG path jumping might get the player too many of the very powerful weapons too quickly, with the GL this means almost all weapons are in this half of the map. IMO, it would help to keep the RL in the corridor on the 3rd level but move it towards the RA arena more, e.g. by one room segment, i.e. making the RL no longer directly visible.

    E.g. The 3rd floor 50H in the RA arena might be better placed right under the RA on the med-level platform with grates. To motivate players to take the jump down there. The RG I would put where the 50H used to be, at the top of the RA arena JP. This would give the "dead end" here special significance.

    E.g. Starting at the MH, it is very much quicker to get the RA via TP, than the YA (not the one next to the GL) via much longer corridor. Especially because you cannot RL to the YA presently. So it might be something to think about swapping the locations of the YA with the RA. Just to force players to work more to get the valuable RA.

    E.g. Should you have swapped the 50H with the RG, then the RG would be very close to the LG. It could help to move the LG to the lowest floor corner (near the GA) where you put the GL ammo, so that that corner of the map also gets meaning. And move the GL on the RG spot, adds fun grenade spamming from above, and seperates the GL from the YA here.

    E.g. IMO two YA, a RA and a GA are too much. I would remove the the YA next to the YA, and either put a few 5Hx2 or 5Ax2 there instead.

    In my minds eye I think I have the item placement mostly figured out. This would be mostly for FFA. Maybe some of the suggestions are of some use though.

    In short as you may be gathering: I am thinking about how to place items and weapons in such a way that they make the most of all your corridors and paths in map, while at the same time trying to keep the powerful items are far apart as possible. At least that is the idea.

  • If you should swap the YA (not GL YA one) with the RA, it might be nice to lift up the floor right under the then RA by two steps, so that standing at the MH you can check if the RA is there or now. Sort of a tactical thing, helping the player decide if he/she should run down that long corridor or not.

Other than that I feel your map is pretty much there. Good work.

Sorry, I thought I was not going to meddle much, but the more I look at your now nice map the more potential for further improvements I see.

If you have thoughts on certain weapon placements etc. please share them, I am very much interested in the logic of item placement, and like all of us, we are always learning near things.
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xiripiti
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PostPosted: 03-01-2014 04:35 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hi Aeon
Ty for ur comments...I need some time to digest them. On my first reading I saw some important advices about items placement. I needed that. About playerclip, only on the last version or so.
I`m glad that u feel I´m going the right way.
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xiripiti
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PostPosted: 03-01-2014 04:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


One more thing, Aeon.
I want to say here that this map is a bit yours too.
Without ur interest and nice comments, maybe beta02 was the last one.
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v1l3
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PostPosted: 03-15-2014 08:21 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I downloaded Wolfcam so that I can run my Quake Live ... the update won't run on my comp =/ ...but finally got to play this map...which I really like!!, and I noticed that there is a little blue line thingy(dunno what it is) in the floor in front of the RA (took a pic of it) thought I'd point it out




Last edited by AEon on 03-16-2014 05:10 AM, edited 1 time in total.Reason: lvlshot'ed the image
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 03-17-2014 01:13 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Looks like the placeholder for a missing model. That looks like the three edges of a cube in green, red and blue.
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xiripiti
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PostPosted: 03-18-2014 09:20 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Quote:
...I noticed that there is a little blue line thingy...

Tried to find it, saw nothing, no idea what it is. :confused:
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xiripiti
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PostPosted: 03-18-2014 09:31 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Attachment:
abc_beta06.jpg

Hi all
This is the AB_ beta06.

After reading Aeon`s comments, some hours playing with bots and lots of tests, this is the result of my atempt to improve the gameflow and better distribution of items:

-Added 1 more small jumppad to improve the fast change from de midlle floor to the upper one.
-The RL is now on the ground of the small arena. This makes the player use more that part of the map.
-The 3rd floor YA (near the RG) was replaced by a 50h. No need of 2 YAs on a small map like this one. Near, the rocket ammo, on the opposite side of RL.
-Removed the 25h and armorshards near the stairs to big JP.
-A 50h is now on the grates platform between the 2 arenas.
-LG is placed on his own room near the top of the big JP. This room is not a dead end anymore, but is still a critical place.
-On the opposite side of LG, no more 25h.
-Removed the 2 ammo boxes on the central groundfloor and repositioned them.
-On the groundfloor on corridor with TP and JP, replaced the GA by 3 armour shards and added a 50h near the column.
-Some spawn points were repositioned.
_Some adjustments to the lights, and _Ambient was reduced from 15 to 12, making the shadows a bit more present.
...and other small changes/adds not realy important for the gameflow ( I think).

-Replaced the stone wall texture by another not so "medieval", and retouched some others.
I will try keep all textures as simple as they are now, and for sure, no use of fancy sfx.
My feeling is, after the gameflow improvement, that this map could be a bit bigger.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wp58oq6btwxsk ... beta06.pk3

My next post will be something very near of the final version, maybe with another name.
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AEon
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PostPosted: 03-18-2014 10:51 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


A few thoughts, still need to play against bots:

  • I really like the flatter extra steps neat the RA platform, leading from one side of the map to the other, much better than the ramps previously there.
  • Dropping the GA was a good thing, never really knew what to do with it.
  • JPs look nice, since all of them throw you up and back when running into them, you might want to slightly give them an angle, hinting at the fact you will get hurtled back. Might not be easily done regarding brushwork though.

  • Something I still find awkward: The proximity of items/weapons to the JPs.
    • The YA is IMO too close to the JP. In general I think it would be better to avoid close proximity to JPs, since it leads to "accidental stumbling" into them.
    • Above the YA JP you stumble into the GL... IMO the GL is also "in the way" there.
    • The 3x5 Shards at the foot of the other JP, and the PG at its top are all "in the way" IMO.
    Such proximity gives the impression there was not enough space in the map to put items.
  • From the MH up the 180° steps, you may have noted that your steps are rather heigh, thus when you run up those there is quite a bit of head-bobbing for the player. It made me slightly dizzy. A few more steps, or maybe doubling the number of steps would reduce this effect. IIRC there are a few other steps that are this "steep" that you might like to look at.
  • A few areas still feel cramped, e.g. the width of the platform with the PG. Maybe pushing the indented JP outward, would make the PG upper floor slightly wider. A few areas where the JPs exit cut into the upper floor paths, making them feel too narrow, giving the player the feeling they have to carefully tiptoe around the "holes" in the floor edges. Hope that makes some sense the way I worded it. In a home improvement show on TV I recently head someone say: "The corridors in a house define the overall feel or cramptness or luxuriousness regarding size of space." And I agree, presently there are still a few areas that needlessly are cramped, making the map feel cramped, but it should not take much to give the impression of "enough space" all around. IMO, it should be possible to move out the YA and the PG JPs slightly (by 64u?), to give that feel of extra space.
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xiripiti
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PostPosted: 03-25-2014 10:10 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hi Aeon
Sorry answer so late but I`ve been working hard on a commercial last days.
Your comments about the corridors, I think u are right and I will do something about it.
Next version will be the final one, imo is time to finish it and maybe start another (about this i need to think seriously).
Next and last step will be some work on textures and lights.
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