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Topic Starter Topic: lol beta01 for quake live
xiripiti
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PostPosted: 04-23-2014 08:07 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Attachment:
lol beta01 .jpg

Hi
This is a first sketch for my 3rd map for QuakeLive. The textures applied only define rooms and areas. Atm, i`m working on the basic arquitecture, trying to achieve some balance between rooms and movement fluidity.
Only 6 major items are positioned to help to define the most important areas in the game.
All comments are wellcome
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AEon
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PostPosted: 04-23-2014 09:20 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Giving feedback on an early screenshot alone is kinda difficult. Or did you just forget to add a link to the map?
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xiripiti
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PostPosted: 04-23-2014 10:53 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AEon wrote:
Giving feedback on an early screenshot alone is kinda difficult. Or did you just forget to add a link to the map?
Pfff....sorry...forgot the link :o
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sqiwe7sjzskfl7s/lol.pk3
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AEon
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PostPosted: 04-23-2014 09:46 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


A few thoughts:

  • I started off in one of the lower floor arenas and then made my way up the up on foot, my first impression: "I can actually make several of those 'shortcut' jumps (good!), e.g. first floor near above JP to the RA, or on the top floor to the MH". But after making it to the top (the MH) it did feel like a lot of jump'n'run (problematic for bots). Only then did I start to explore the two TPs and the JP.
  • The winding path up around the arenas are probably there to get some interesting vertical gameplay into the map. And that could be the case at some point, but keep in mind any "valuable" height gains "on foot" are completely negated by the TPs and JP, i.e. no one will bother take the footpath if you can TP in, or even RJ one floor up directly. So you will need to find some form of balance between "running up the path" and the TPs/JP to make all the paths equally valid.
  • Presently the RA and the RG on the med level give a certain importance to the med level, e.g. you would get to the top level and then jump down to med level. I just don't see bottom floor players running up to the med level yet.
  • I don't quite see the need for both TPs getting you to the top level, I would either drop one TP, or have it exit on the med level somewhere.
  • Overall the pathing up the map works well enough, though I did again feel that your bottom floor of the map felt flat. 1/3 of a level height difference between the two bottom floor arenas would help IMO.

Technical:
  • The present skybox works for me (in your last map I never saw the skybox).
  • The shaders on the TPs don't. Both TPs are showing a missing texture.

You might also try to avoid making the layout too similar to your last map. Presently the two central arenas, with vertical pathing around them do strongly remind of your last map. Maybe try to work with 3 arenas, e.g. one 3rd one in the centre, but only on the 2nd and 3rd floor. (Just a quick inspirational idea, to give you a hint of what might be something to look into.)

Hope that helps in some way.
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xiripiti
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PostPosted: 04-24-2014 03:48 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


"valuable" height gains "on foot" are completely negated by the TPs and JP,
i.e. no one will bother take the footpath if you can TP in, or even RJ one floor up
Interesting point. That is precisely the balance I am looking for.
About missing shaders, that happens when they are missing in your Wolfcam shader list. This is not very clear to me. I have installed Wolfcam 3 or 4 times and the shader list is allways diferent. In my case I see all shaders, meaning we have diferent shader lists. Hope Citty reads this and comes with a solution.
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xiripiti
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PostPosted: 05-13-2014 09:01 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hi.
Here is lol_beta02 for quake Live
Deep changes all over the map:
Rooms are a bit larger and some walls desappeared in order to create more open spaces.
For that reason, movement is now more fluid and easy for a human player. As before, only a few major items are placed, but enough to play and test with bots.
Going around this map, I felt very confortable with its proportions, no sense of claustrofoby, easy to run away from dificult situations and a good map for "railers".
This will be a "blueish" SciFi map, maybe a Mars station with a tranparent ceiling. Added some details only to start "feeling" the map.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7mz6k10ss466z ... beta02.pk3
Attachment:
lol_beta02.jpg

Waiting for comments :))
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AEon
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PostPosted: 05-14-2014 03:56 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Had a bit of trouble understanding how to get around the map... need to play it some more. A few very early thoughts:

  • You YA pit is rather strange... from two sides you can fall in and on only one side you are able to get out. The "obvious" things would be to have two JPs at both ends. But even then when you run into the pit you go down, get the YA to then come up again. Hmmm...
  • In your central arena there is a flat pool, you might like to add a "cushion" (forgot the name) shader that lets folks jump into the pool from above without taking damage.
  • In the YA pit I would suggest to add another one of those pools, smaller as well.
  • Note: I actually completely missed the YA for quite a long time until I noticed it... hmm... might suggest that area is not prominent enough, maybe.

I like your abstract geometric designs though.

Update:
Played a few games against 4 bots on hardcore, that was surprisingly fun. A few more notes:

  • I still cannot really fathom the layout, still learning how to take paths.
  • On the top level the bots spawn, and then when running towards the MH cannot jump the gap that lets you fall down one or even two levels. A narrow ledge for the bots here would be a good thing.
  • Noted that you actually have two YA ;)... had overlooked the second one. The 2nd YA, not the one in the JP pit, is interesting, since you can drop onto it from the top but also reach it from the bottom. Should yield good gameplay.
  • Overall the bots seem to make good use of the map.
  • On the bottom floor I tent to jump right into the TP near the water, only very much later did I notice that there is another TP next to the PG... in the latter case I am not quite sure about the layout. Will need more testing on my part.
  • If you use the tall JP, and would noclip out at the 2nd floor, you will see RL ammo. I like this open area, and feel some weapon should be here as well. Maybe move the SG here, or even the RG.
  • Where the SG presently is, it should be moved more into the centre of the floor area IMO.
  • Location of the RG in some ways makes sense, but feels very "accidentally dropped" where it is.
  • Adding some more health here and there, and some shards maybe will help spell out the item placement more.
  • About the LG location... again took me a while to notice it up there... not so sure about that. There is a mapping cliché of putting the LG in or near water, to putting the LG into the lowest level flat pool might be something to try, and then move the RL to where the LG presently is. Again this will need more testing and though, especially since bots prefer the RL and will go for that.
  • Not sure, but it seems the bots don't like your tall JP.

My trouble "understanding" the map, in this case is a good thing, since I am still exploring the pathing. I like how you can do some jump'n'run to the MH on the top floor, and also the jumps down to the RA, and both of the YA. Gives the map an interesting dynamic.
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xiripiti
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PostPosted: 05-16-2014 03:44 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


hi Aeon
I`m glad you found this beta 02 generaly interesting.
The issue with the YA near the small JP is easy to solve. My next step is to make this map more appealing to the bots, specialy on the top floor. For that I need to add some more items or spawns on that floor and/or re-place some others.
Atm the map is very naked, it needs a lot of detail objects, which I`m working on.
Beta 03 will arrive soon
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xiripiti
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PostPosted: 05-27-2014 06:35 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


:dork: Hi,need some help about shaders.
Atm is out of question start making my own shaders, but I think it is possible to make
changes on existing ones.
I´m using a shader named Firesky2 ( is inside the "skies" group) and want make a change
to the color and speed of clouds.
My question is: how can I acced to the script and also to the images?
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obsidian
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PostPosted: 05-27-2014 06:39 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


You do NOT make changes to existing assets, that will cause all other maps that use the same shader/textures to change as well, which can break or ruin other maps. You need to copy existing ones and use it as a basis to make your own. You should have extracted folders containing all the shaders in baseq3\scripts. If you are using some other sky shader, then they might be in one of the .pk3 files.



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AEon
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PostPosted: 05-27-2014 12:31 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


And give the shader an unique name, e.g. lol_sky or something. Copy/pasting the original shader code here would help us help you :).
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xiripiti
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PostPosted: 05-28-2014 04:48 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hi Obsidian, master.
And hi Aeon, attentive reader of my doubts.
If i could find the script/images I want, and if I make changes, ofc it would be renamed and copy_pasted here.
But...the scripts folder in baseq3 only contains the common shaders. I presume that the shader I want is inside one of the pk3 file in baseq3...I have more than 100 pk3.
I decompiled some of those pk3 and I saw no script folder in it. Should I keep on decompiling pk3 after pk3 till the sweet success? Or there is one special pk3 file containing the scripts used by Radiant?
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obsidian
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PostPosted: 05-28-2014 06:07 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Why would you have 100 pk3's? Are most of them other custom maps? Most mappers work off a clean install the game so there's no chance of using assets from non-stock maps. Think about when you distribute your map, other people aren't going to have the same set of custom maps and they'll be missing all sorts of files.

Does this sky shader not have a subdirectory? Most shaders fit in something like textures/obs_skies/customsky1 or something. That might give you some clues as to how to find it. There's also a console commands that will list shaders and textures in the map, forgot what it is, but someone else might know it or you can google for it.

Alternatively, just copy, paste and edit one of the stock Q3 shaders. It's not that hard.



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KittenIgnition
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PostPosted: 05-28-2014 03:58 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


100 pk3s? I have thousands...
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Theftbot
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PostPosted: 05-28-2014 04:59 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Pak Rats like shiny shaders!
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xiripiti
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PostPosted: 06-28-2014 02:37 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hi
Finaly i had some days to work again on this map. The beta03 is ready (?) to show you, but when I try to play it on QLive server it shows this message: Z_Free: memory block wrote past end and stops loading.
I play it perfectly on Wolfcam, nothing wrong with it. What this message can mean?
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fKd
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PostPosted: 06-29-2014 01:06 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Z_Free%3A+memory+b ... e+past+end
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