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Topic Starter Topic: Rustgrad Beta

This is not Æon!
This is not Æon!
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 2173
PostPosted: 08-12-2014 04:30 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Beta 2:

Download: http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/rustgradbeta.zip ~35MB

Better botplay, clipping fixes, added some ammo, locations, some custom sounds (same as in Solitude) and several other small fixes



=== OLD ===

Ok, so haven't released a level in like ages now, 2010 was the last time with Solitude.
Sad thing with this level is, that I started developing this back in 2009, at that time I pretty much locked down the layout. Then I build upon it every now and then, fixing up the graphics.

Here are some pros and cons:

+
Released
Not QL

-
Untested, 2v2 might work?
Tons of unnecessary back drop triangles
High tri-count
Bad bot play
Bad collision
Bad VIS
Too bright
Too dark
No quake live support
Never use overbrightbits 0 here

Screens:








I will post all models and max/sketchup files here a bit later, so others can use the trees and foliage!

Pretty shitty post, but I'm just too tired, I'll update this tomorrow!



_________________
Q3Map2 2516 -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/q3map_2.5.16_win32_x86.zip
Q3Map2 FS_20g -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/q3map2_fs_20g.rar
GtkRadiant 140 -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/GtkRadiantSetup-1.4.0-Q3RTCWET.exe


Last edited by Hipshot on 08-17-2014 01:25 PM, edited 2 times in total.

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Mercenary
Mercenary
Joined: 06 Nov 2011
Posts: 247
PostPosted: 08-12-2014 04:38 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Damn, that is one sexy map! It's also just my style: all the bling without a care for optimization. The only thing that turns me off is that it isn't super open, like is5 was. is5 with that level of detail would be like a dream.

Still gorgeous though!




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Extreme evil
Extreme evil
Joined: 02 Mar 2002
Posts: 1637
PostPosted: 08-12-2014 10:21 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Beautiful, as always. :up:



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Boink!
Boink!
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4493
PostPosted: 08-12-2014 10:31 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Beyond amazing. Running about I keep finding detail, wondering how you did this and that. Very beautiful. I especially like all your greenery and the skybox mountains and the clouds and even your sun. I see some huge texture borrowing potential in this map. Very inspirational...

A few things... nothing major mind you... most mappers, including myself would gladly have "a final" on par with this "beta":

  • Exiting TP down the blue-ish rounded corridor ends in a gap in the path you have to jump across. I am aware this is "dumbing" down, but the bots would probably really like to see a plank or something bridging the gap.
  • In the arena were you can see the skybox, a 90° angled orangey pipe on the cut in wall lets you take a short-cut on the top level. Again a bit of geometry, maybe bending the pipe slightly more, would let the bots take this short cut as well.
  • Your other TP is on a raised "platform" surrounded by a pipe that the player would use a stepping stone to get to the TP. Not sure you did, but also here a bit of botclip steps could help the bots get to this TP.
  • I looked at what vis is doing in the map in a few areas. Very strange that a lot of stuff is being drawn but should actually not be. A few hint brushes could help, but I always think that, in reality the compiler usually has other thoughts on the matter. As it is the map plays really smoothly on my i7 920 Quadcore, ATi Radeon 5850, so one could say "who cares". If you like I could try to help with the hinting, though.
  • You have one sliding door in the map, the mine path. The "portal" there does not work, but I think it actually cannot work because you are only using one door in the map, i.e. not making it possible to close off the rest of the mine.
  • There seem to be a few areas I got snagged, there was one corner in the mine IIRC, will look into that in detail later.

  • I love your rounded ceiling with the square tiles missing in places with all the wonderful vine... I think you used those glass tiles in Solar?
  • You seem to be using texture blending on your rocks? I used that thanks to Sock in AEdm7, but yours looks really great.
  • Hehe... here goes ;)... the only thing looking slightly out of place are your signature JPs... and the look of the TPs is also on the slightly aggressively high-tech side compared to the rusted-down and deteriorated rest of the map. But that is called artistic liberty and who am I to doubt it.

Lighting IMO in the map is fine. Have not tested with bots yet, though.




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Warrior
Warrior
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 83
PostPosted: 08-13-2014 04:02 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


looks spectacular, glad you are going to release it.




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Mercenary
Mercenary
Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Posts: 241
PostPosted: 08-13-2014 12:56 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


:alert: Bug Report :alert: :D

http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad01.jpg the light pointing to the stairs should be a little bit more yellow
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad02.jpg z-fight & texture misalignment
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad03.jpg crate without clipping & z-fight (use r_fullbright 1 to find overlapping faces)
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad04.jpg wrong texture?
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad05.jpg missing ceiling + env clip & z-fighting water lilies
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad06.jpg missing face (r_clear 1 is mapper best friend)
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad07.jpg missing window? & maybe use a single patch to prevent those lightmap seams
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad08.jpg small hole
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad09.jpg texture doesn't really fit & a hole
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad10.jpg these gaps become bigger with higher r_subdivision values
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad11.jpg ...
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad12.jpg small hole & detail stuck inside the wall
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad13.jpg a lot of missing faces
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad14.jpg missing ceiling clip
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad15.jpg missing clip in the windows & vine z-fight due to curve lod
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad16.jpg holes
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad17.jpg wrong textures?
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad18.jpg wrong textures?
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad19.jpg double border looks odd & use the plain border instead of the ornament one inside the grates
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad20.jpg needs a little bit more vertical stretch
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad21.jpg the metal edges overlapping order looks weird. the upper one with the dark shadow below, should overlap all others.
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad22.jpg these 3 textures are fullbright in vertexlight mode

- The small stones don't like dynamic light. They start to flicker if you shoot a rocket on the ground.
- r_speeds exceed 60k in some places. FPS sometimes under 125 :eek: (GTX 560Ti @ 2560x1600).
- there are no target_location entities (TDM) and no music key in the worldspawn.
- there are also "no" ambient sounds
- maybe place the quad onto the mine entrance door?



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Mercenary
Mercenary
Joined: 06 Nov 2011
Posts: 247
PostPosted: 08-13-2014 03:52 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


http://i.imgur.com/pspK0ZG.jpg pretty much everywhere a patch meets a brush with the same texture, there's a seam. This is why I consider patches to be pure evil.
http://i.imgur.com/n7frYzL.jpg planks ain't weapclipped
http://i.imgur.com/nPTKiOg.jpg except when they are, but improperly




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I'm the dude!
I'm the dude!
Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12395
PostPosted: 08-13-2014 07:37 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


KittenIgnition wrote:
This is why I consider patches to be pure evil.


Patches aren't evil, T-junctions are. I've mentioned this to Hipshot before, the way he mixes brushes with patches results in a LOT of T-junctions and they need to be fixed to solve the sparklie seam issues.



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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 491
PostPosted: 08-13-2014 07:59 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


some times after working so long on a map, you know there are little texture mess ups everywhere but you just have to get over the OCD and release the thing. most players care ZERO about small texture misalignments and they don't even notice them.

sidenote @sst13: your bug reports are always greatly appreciated though :)

this map is really beautiful and i think you should call this the final beta and finish it up ASAP.

i do agree with AEon about the bouncers. they don't fit at all. try some kind of broken stone circular bouncer with vines coming out of it, or maybe a fan-type bouncer could work.

that's my only nitpick. this map comes closer to a fantasy/fairy tale theme in the outdoor areas than any other Q3A map i have seen, which is truly great. i especially love the skybox, surreal terrain, and realistic trees. it feels like walking around in a painting.

:up: :up: great job!




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Mercenary
Mercenary
Joined: 06 Nov 2011
Posts: 247
PostPosted: 08-14-2014 03:37 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Pat Howard wrote:
this map is really beautiful and i think you should call this the final beta and finish it up ASAP.

On a map like this, where performance has been compromised in order to make it look a lot better, these things really should not be ignored. Fixing all the little bugs would potentially result in the first "perfect" map I've ever seen released. It makes me sad to see beautiful maps rushed near the end, and lots of small bugs left in.




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\kill
\kill
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 918
PostPosted: 08-15-2014 04:28 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I don't care what anyone says ... this is the best Q3 map that has ever been made ... it's amazing! I like that you took the little pond/rock area out of hipshot_dm8 and put it into this one ... the detail in each room :ducky: It would be cool to see this in the QL map rotation, with all of the new updates and changes in QL .. it's definitely worthy of it, if there was some more work put into item placement .. it needs more ammo. If you put it up in the QL forum, I'm sure that they would be all over it. **pokes cityy**




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This is not Æon!
This is not Æon!
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 2173
PostPosted: 08-17-2014 02:52 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it!

I just compiled and uploaded beta2, I also edited the first post, bot play should be much better now, even if the bots still act a bit stupid.
Download: http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/rustgradbeta.zip ~35MB

It would be great if anyone found any collision errors or so, if they could post them here, cause I figure I might as well finalize this until next weekend and release it.

And, well, I won't change those JPs, I know some of you think they are odd against the rest of the level, but I don't think so. I think it goes well with the entire "arena-fied" location thing, just like with the TPs. In fact, I kinda dislike a lot of these JPs that looks like they were built into the levels, like fans etc. Just my two cents =)

-----

@sst13, Thanks a lot, that was really good, quality QA there. It was such a long time since I released a level, so I totally forgot about clear. Your list of errors was very helpful and I actually didn't know that r_fullbright would show me overlapping faces like that. Nice!

I wonder though, why your FPS would be so low? I'm on a GTX260 (however I can't play in 2560, only 1920x1200) and I have a stable 125FPS. May I ask where you found those 60k tris? Please check w/o fullbright if you can =)


@AEon, I use a lot of hint brushes, they are all over the place, but I know some things can be seen anyway, it's very strange. And yes, I use extensive blending on the terrain, I did it like in this image:




@KittenIgnition, that's just sloppy texture alignment from my side, it has nothing to do with that a brush can't meet a patch. It's fixed now =)




@Obsidian, I will probably never learn =)


@Pat, thanks! I would never release this level with the errors in the first beta, I wouldn't have released this beta in this stage couple years ago either, the current version (beta2) is more like how I should have released it. The current version is the final beta, I already know a few things to fix though, but those will be fixed in a final version.


@v1l3, Yes that is the same terrain! Only difference is the mine exit, which in that level was a pipe into the underground. I created those textures back then and I've been using them in several levels, cause I was very satisfied with them, I see no reason for me to stop using them either.

Hipshot_dm8 is almost exactly 8 years old now (2006) and that's when I created this terrain, it's pretty fun to actually have it in this level, the scene has looked quiet different during these 8 years =) Initially why I reused the terrain was because I wasn't satisfied with the area and in combination with wanting to develop a more "Quake 1" looking Q3 level, but hipshottified, I figure I could just reuse this and build upon it. After a while, I coulden't come up with good texture selections for the theme and switched course to how it looks today.



_________________
Q3Map2 2516 -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/q3map_2.5.16_win32_x86.zip
Q3Map2 FS_20g -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/q3map2_fs_20g.rar
GtkRadiant 140 -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/GtkRadiantSetup-1.4.0-Q3RTCWET.exe


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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 1762
PostPosted: 08-18-2014 05:14 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The terrain looks great on the screenie :) Downloaded, gonna to test it :) And be sure of feedback :)



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Boink!
Boink!
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4493
PostPosted: 08-18-2014 12:02 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Really had fun playing the default 3 hardcore bots.

I especially like the SG arena, camping around the RL, getting the 50H, to then jump onto the planks to grab the shards, to then get the MH, and back into the arena. Shooting the bots taking the JP up or shooting at them as they reach the top. This area has awesome gameplay. The other arenas I am not so sure about. Might be a learning thing, having to learn to appreciate those. Ironically the most organic area, the mine exit door with water and a few 5H is still the area I try to avoid like heck. I keep having the feeling I am on ice there, and for some reason the bots are especially deadly there too.

In the SG arena, I noted the bots can go along the wall, where you cut out the wall slightly. This works really well gameplay-wise. Still think some geometry would make the bot movement along the orangey pipe more plausible.

Several respawn points I noted were strange:
  • One right behind the YA. The player runs into the YA on respawn... this is unorthodox... and probably not for the best.
  • Another respawn is very close to the RA... IIRC that is another thing to avoid, giving respawners the best armour right away. May be "fair" in some way, but this does seem to be avoided in most maps.

I initially was not much a fan of the mines, but after knowing were the MH is (did you shorten its respawn time?) I love grabbing the MH to go directly for the SG arena.

Played to a score of 100... this was a *lot* of fun. Gameplay-wise probably in there with Solar. Only more complex to understand all the paths and how to use them...

I initially wanted to suggest adding at least two more bots by default. But 3 actually worked better than I had expected. I noted Phobos actually jumping to get to TP on the platform... or did you use some clever clipping to make it look like jumping?

Over all a huge amount of gameplay to discover and explore. Such a non-trivial layout is really interesting. Reminded me of q3dm7... where I also kept changing the way I played... here the process is more complex though.

Very good job... really nice map.




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The Afflicted
The Afflicted
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 542
PostPosted: 08-22-2014 08:25 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Amazing :up: Thanks for giving me a reason to fire up Q3 again... I can't believe you guys are still pushing out more and more awesomeness from the engine... Keep up the good work :q3:




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Mercenary
Mercenary
Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Posts: 241
PostPosted: 09-02-2014 06:22 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hipshot wrote:
May I ask where you found those 60k tris?

Hmm, can't find the spot anymore. Only 2 areas with max 40k: http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad23.jpg + http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad24.jpg
FPS is also stable 125 now...

http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad25.jpg - 2 missing faces.
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad26.jpg - The trim is still not complete. :D And some of the lamps don't have playerclip, others do.
http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad27.jpg - I don't really like the ceiling in the 45° connection. The fluorescent bulbs are a bit to long for my taste. How about a small light well like here?: http://zfight.com/misc/images/maps/m8/final/3.jpg



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Warrior
Warrior
Joined: 09 Jul 2013
Posts: 90
PostPosted: 09-05-2014 08:55 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Realy amazing job !!!
I wonder what ID is waiting to contact u and say "We need this map"




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 491
PostPosted: 12-10-2014 12:34 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@sst13: just wondering how you got the all-white rendering in this image: http://sst13.net/pics/rustgrad01.jpg

i've seen people do this before. here it looks like you just textured the map white and recompiled it. i'm just making sure it's not some kind of console command to only view lightmaps - right? because that would be awesome.




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This is not Æon!
This is not Æon!
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 2173
PostPosted: 12-10-2014 12:52 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


r_lightmap



_________________
Q3Map2 2516 -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/q3map_2.5.16_win32_x86.zip
Q3Map2 FS_20g -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/q3map2_fs_20g.rar
GtkRadiant 140 -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/GtkRadiantSetup-1.4.0-Q3RTCWET.exe


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Immortal
Immortal
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 2469
PostPosted: 12-10-2014 04:24 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


heh, learn something eveyday :)




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Boink!
Boink!
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4493
PostPosted: 12-10-2014 04:26 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Just ran through AEdm7 with that turned on... looked really neat...




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 491
PostPosted: 12-11-2014 12:47 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hipshot wrote:
r_lightmap


D: fuck!

thank you!




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