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Topic Starter Topic: Re: "Ye Olde Pump" [WIP] UPDATED ON 04.26.15
AndehX
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PostPosted: 04-28-2015 04:34 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Quake Live no longer uses encrypted PK3's
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CZghost
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PostPosted: 04-28-2015 06:20 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Then it should work...



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AndyW
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PostPosted: 04-28-2015 10:38 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


For QL all works fine now , i forgot to set the PK3 to read-only. :)
Changed the not-working Textures and did some more detailing on the empty-looking Areas.
Re-Texturing is finished so far. I have to put some more lights and Models in and switch some textures.
I will do the rest of the texturing & clipping tonight.
Id would be cool to get some final feedback on weapon and item placement... Im thinking about a new spot for the Yellow Armor but dont know where to place it. Maybe i should get rid of the RA and place a 2nd YA and some more Shards around the map?? :question:

















Heres the final pre-release: :arrow: https://www.dropbox.com/s/43gar3u3i7xty ... 5.pk3?dl=0 <- :!:
I found 3 textures missing in QL, that will be fixed.
Cheers,
Andy



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CZghost
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PostPosted: 04-29-2015 06:55 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


One door has clipping error - the frame is not entirely clipped. It's just a bug that sometimes appears when compiled a BSP. Recompile should solve that, if not, recompile again, then after third bug appearance ask for solution...

Anyway, it's good map, good choice of textures, can't wait for final release :)



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AndyW
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PostPosted: 05-02-2015 02:09 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


THX, think i found it!
Sometimes it seems to me that some selected brushs duplicate on their own... or the PCB of my keybord has an shortcut...
Im really sure that i not hit the spacebar! First time i had this problem was after turning structural in detail brushes.
Anyone can confirm this/had the same problem?
Im using GTK release 1.6.4

After staring at Pat´s Screenshots i decided to put some extra time in texturing! :olo: :rolleyes:



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CZghost
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PostPosted: 05-02-2015 02:58 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Last when used Radiant 1.5 I was able to leak map with making stairs nonsolid, which sent me in the void! I am surprised it allowed to make bot support, because I was playing with editor and that similar bug just made the bspc discard it shouting there is a leak! After I ran the map I found out stairs are ghosted!

Radiant 1.5 was famous in the fashion there were easily possible making duplicate brushes by accidentally hitting spacebar, because new brushes did not move like in Radiant 1.4 or Radiant 1.6. Also it was possible to make invisible brushes with zero width, which also caused troubles. But with Radiant 1.6 you could register you accidentally hit the spacebar :arrow: new brushes move right and down by one grid in the 2D view. If you are sure you did not hit the spacebar, then try to recompile the map, if the bug disappears, it was just flaw in the compile progress making these brushes nonsolid.

Anyway, speaking about nonsolid brushes - is it possible to make completely nonsolid brush without using shaders? A map The Sewers of Fate by Rust 7 include secret hidden behind nonsolid brush. I think it was done by making that brush nonsolid somewhat in the editor, not shader as I do not remember the map includes ever some custom assets...



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AndyW
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PostPosted: 05-02-2015 04:53 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


CZghost wrote:
Anyway, speaking about nonsolid brushes - is it possible to make completely nonsolid brush without using shaders? A map The Sewers of Fate by Rust 7 include secret hidden behind nonsolid brush. I think it was done by making that brush nonsolid somewhat in the editor, not shader as I do not remember the map includes ever some custom assets...


Easy-Peasy, im a specialist in producing Bugs! :D
Just make the Brush you want to walk trough and texture it with common/nowdrawnonsolid. Then texture the face of the brush you want your "nonsolid" texture to be applied with any texture you want. ;)
Now you can walk throu... Texture is only visible from textured side -like a patch mesh!



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CZghost
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PostPosted: 05-02-2015 07:09 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AndyW wrote:
Easy-Peasy, im a specialist in producing Bugs! :D
Just make the Brush you want to walk trough and texture it with common/nowdrawnonsolid. Then texture the face of the brush you want your "nonsolid" texture to be applied with any texture you want. ;)
Now you can walk throu... Texture is only visible from textured side -like a patch mesh!

Okay, I will test it. I will also test what happens if you compile map with duplicate brush at the same place with the same orientation and same texture mapping. I doubt this will produce nonsolid brush. In The Sewers of Fate the nonsolid brush blocks vis, which cannot be done with common/nodraw or common/nodrawnonsolid texture applied to invisible faces, it has to be caulked :arrow: single brush will be solid blocking movement.



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PostPosted: 05-02-2015 08:00 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


So I made some screenshots on how the SOF secret appears in-game and how it works.
Note: Since it is secret, I had to place it in spoiler. For everyone else: If you want to find it completely yourself, do not click on Show spoiler.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Please note that the nonsolid brush blocks vis (this is why I shoot with tris wireframe visible). It could be considered a bug, but it actualy hides secret and I must say it's really well hidden. I found it accidentaly when played the map...



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AndyW
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PostPosted: 05-02-2015 09:18 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Its not a Bug, its a feature! :)



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cityy
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PostPosted: 05-02-2015 10:52 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AndyW wrote:
Re-Texturing is finished so far. I have to put some more lights and Models in and switch some textures.


Andy, I think you should consider putting some more time into texturing this. Your base is solid and you have rich brushwork and geometry to work off from.

Here is a few things you could consider as next steps:
- consistency of texture density and resolution: This is often neglected but I think it makes a huge difference for a level's overall look and feel. What I mean is your mix of sock's high quality and high resolution textures and the quake 3 stock textures. The q3 textures are good but they really shout 1999. Now this is not a bad thing but you should settle for something.
This mix of dense downscaled high res textures and old q3 textures make the map look very unfinished although the diversity of textures is rather high and complete.

- the practical context of materials: What is wood, what is brick, what is concrete and what is favoring the use of one material over the other? In middle age, buildings were often made from natural stone because people did not have the knowledge to use cheaper and faster materials. Nowadays, natural stone in a building is quite a luxury because using it is time expensive and the amount of people that know how to work with it has decreased compared to the old days.
If you use natural stone, like the q3 gothic brick - what is the statement you want to make? Why do you use concrete and metal in other areas? Maybe some parts of the map are fictionally older than others? Is there a clear separation of those areas that enable the player to understand your visual idea? This topic is pretty advanced and it does in some cases make more sense to consider it and in some cases it makes less sense. In any case, it's a good way to think about texture choice because even if you ignore the matter, you will have considered multiple aspects and you will have gotten a good idea about what you really want to do.

- how do materials work? If you got a lot of curved geometry, you won't rely too much on tiled floors because rectangular elements and curves (in theory) mean lots of cutting and extra work which defeats the purpose of a modular floor material. Now this is nit picking but it's only one of the things that add up to what makes a map feel unpolished. Simular things go for stair steps, brick, metal plates. Every material has a purpose that makes its use favorable.
Concrete can't easily be produced in infinite lengths or shapes. Remember there is wooden formwork and that concrete is poured which causes joints between pieces. You can choose wether to care or not to care about this. Personally, I see it as a chance to enrich your map with information the player can consciously or unconsciously pick up.

- lighting: is not just an accessory. Places of importance and high frequency of usage should be highlighted by the lighting. This doesn't mean you should place lights above major items but leave the rest of the map dark. Try to create a lighting hierarchy.
When a player enters an area, he subliminally interprets the lighting for his virtual floor plan. What is the key point of this area? Where are the exits? Where is HP? All this can be carried by the lighting and if your map is consistent with lights it will support the learning effect players have.



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AndyW
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PostPosted: 05-02-2015 11:33 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@ Cityy:
Would be nice to ICQ with you.. My rotten rusty english is very very bad... 687787559
Hat schon nen grund warum ich hiterherhänge.. mein schlechtes englisch! .(

But THX as always... Will start to Google-Translate it :D



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Last edited by AndyW on 05-02-2015 11:38 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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cityy
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PostPosted: 05-02-2015 11:36 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


ICQ :D :D I have an account but didn't sign in for a million years.
E-Mail is better for me. I'll send you a translated version later.



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AndyW
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PostPosted: 05-02-2015 11:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


THX cheffe! :) Youre the man!



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AndyW
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PostPosted: 05-02-2015 02:51 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AndyW wrote:
After staring at Pat´s Screenshots i decided to put some extra time in texturing! :olo: :rolleyes:

Yeah i know what you mean. And as it figures out it seems not to be a big problem caused by all the trims i cut out. I can cange it the "MODULAR" Way :) Also retexturing made me get rid of usless brushes id never noticed :) And i know that some areas are very dark and "under-brushed"

Feedback/ Ideas welcome. :)



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Pat Howard
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PostPosted: 05-02-2015 07:02 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


hey andy,

are you talking to yourself? i am confused.

sorry i don't have too much time to test your map. i just did a quick runaround and it looks like it is coming along well, though i do agree with cityy's sentiments on using a single texture set.

i have a quick note for you on scale since i saw a few massively over-sized crates in there. quake 3 scaling is really weird because of the FOV settings and the player's massive jump height, but i have come up with a simple system that rarely steers me wrong.

when you are looking at a reference image, think of what you are seeing in terms of the following dimensions:

foot height: 8-16 units
knee height: 32 units
hip height: 40-48 units
chest height: 64 units
head height: 96 units

note: technically the player is only about 64 units tall, but this guide is not actually based on player height, it's based on how i feel these heights actually look from the player's point of view.

if you look at my recent screenshots you can see some examples. the concrete trim at the base of the brick walls is knee height: 32 units. the crates are hip-height: 40x40 units. (you could also go with 48, but 40 is the max height that is easy to double-jump on.) the metal door on the right side of shot 2 and the shelf in shot 3 are both head height at 96 units. the barrels (not shown) are somewhere between hip and chest height at 52 units.
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Theftbot
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PostPosted: 05-02-2015 08:37 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


IIRC player is 56"s high and clearance of 32"
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AndyW
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PostPosted: 05-03-2015 02:20 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


THX again guys! :up:
And no i was not speaking to myself :olo: It just looked like :)



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AndyW
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PostPosted: 05-03-2015 03:31 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I think this should work. <3







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cityy
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PostPosted: 05-04-2015 09:49 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Sorry for not sending the translation yet, Andy. I'm having some busy days. You will probably be faster using a translator or something.



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PostPosted: 05-04-2015 10:01 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


No prob! I think i got what you meant! :)



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PostPosted: 05-04-2015 10:09 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Looks like it from the screenshots! I would exchange the wood ceilling for something metal'ish but you are defenitely getting there.. Are you aware that you can make doors from multiple brushes? As seen here on the right: http://quakelive.ru/uploads/gallery/alb ... _36690.jpg



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PostPosted: 05-04-2015 10:21 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


UFF OMG...
I never saw such Door constructions, very cool!
Yes the ceiling yes the ceiling.. wood was just a test. For me ceiling is the hardest stuff to get a nice look on.
THX

EDIT: Maybe im thinking wrong, but is it just about "group" each part (r-part l-part) of the door to get this to work?



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sst13
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PostPosted: 05-04-2015 10:45 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AndyW wrote:
Maybe im thinking wrong, but is it just about "group" each part (r-part l-part) of the door to get this to work?

Yes but instead of "func_group" you have to use "func_door" to group the brushes as one door entity. One for the left & one for the right side...



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AndyW
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PostPosted: 05-04-2015 11:57 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Nice!
THX for that info :)



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AndyW
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PostPosted: 05-06-2015 05:02 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


OMG seems like i really have a big scaling problem.
The last 3 screenshots looked good so far (to me) but when i switched to thirdperson with distance 250 it was like a shok!
:cry:



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Fjoggs
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PostPosted: 05-06-2015 07:12 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Huh? Why would switching to third person make any difference?
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AndyW
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PostPosted: 05-06-2015 10:09 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


cause you can see the player model scale compared to the geometry...



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PostPosted: 05-06-2015 11:21 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I guess, but I still don't see how you can walk around somewhere in first person and then be shocked by the scale when you see it in third person. Difference shouldn't be that big. :P
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PostPosted: 05-06-2015 12:01 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I think i will stop working on this one.. its just a waste of time!
I have to do some basic homework...
DOH! :ducky:



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Pat Howard
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PostPosted: 05-06-2015 07:28 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


i know that feeling. it's not a waste of time, i just like to think of it as a sign that you're ready to move on to a new project.

i always get that feeling when i look at a map and think: "my next map will be so much better than this in every way." i am feeling that way with my map hydra right now, that's why i just took a break and moved on to a new map, and i might even finish it before i go back to hydra. i learned so much about the art process from making hydra that my new map is coming along 10x faster and actually looks better, so why not finish it first?

of course i will finish both eventually. i guess the point is to not look at any project as a loss. that feeling of wanting to be done with a project is just a sign that your skills have grown beyond where you were when you first started this map. when that happens, i say be done with it then! seal it up, polish off whatever areas still feel bland, and release the thing. not every map has to be something you feel is perfect.
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PostPosted: 05-07-2015 01:31 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


After fiddeling around on a new layout today it seems i found the "bad-guy" who always made me get out of scale... It was my stair scaling (8x32)!!!



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PostPosted: 05-11-2015 12:33 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Now im having a new PC nothing works. I cant compile (no matter which version of q3map2), quake 3 runs with graphic glitches.... AArgh I just hate windows 7! Will format C: later and go back to good old XP.
Im googeling since 4 hours but found nothing that it solved.....
XP is dead -long live xp! :olo:



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PostPosted: 05-11-2015 01:29 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


You shouldn't have problems with Windows 7. I used radiant and Q3 on it for years with no issues. Even Windows 8 still works (but with a few glitches).

What hardware are you running? How do the graphic glitches look and how do you compile (.bat from radiant..)?



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PostPosted: 05-11-2015 01:48 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hi
i have the same problem as this guy:
https://github.com/TTimo/GtkRadiant/issues/258
Pc is Win7 32bit, 4gb RAM, core2duo @3.00Ghz, radeon hd 5450 1Gb

Tried compiling via the Build -in compile menu & q3map2build. Its the same versions of programs i used on my laptop where it all worked nice.

When i start quake3 i have something like a white frame on the start screen.
I think i will try to setup everything new.. seems something is broken :(



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