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Topic Starter Topic: Re: "Trespass" Tourney [BETA]

Old Skool'
Old Skool'
Joined: 02 May 2002
Posts: 5215
PostPosted: 05-21-2015 12:31 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The real question is, if this is a 1on1 map, why is there a regen in there in the first place. :p




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 490
PostPosted: 05-21-2015 12:33 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Fjoggs wrote:
The real question is, if this is a 1on1 map, why is there a regen in there in the first place.


that's why i'm not too attached to the FFA placement :)




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 293
PostPosted: 05-21-2015 02:19 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Having played a few more times....

If you put the regen on top of the generator post, it's gonna be right above the RA. Given the layout and that the top of the post is not reachable to the bots. whilst it may feel off having the 25h there, maybe it's a good choice of item. It's also enough to be tempting to a human to want to get whilst providing a trap from below for the bot/player with an LG / RG in hand down there.
It also leads to the question of if the regen it only a drop away (literally) from the RA, do you need to move the RA, and if so where ?

I think what's really missing in a reason to go up to the overlooking ledge above it to be honest, rather than what's on top off the generator post.

Ian
AKA FoRa.

Edit:- I wrote this earlier ... didn't see Pat's latest comments until after I hit submit.

Edit2:-
Fjoggs wrote:
The real question is, if this is a 1on1 map, why is there a regen in there in the first place. :p

It's a good counter to the Mega ? :p ... never did see why a tourney map has to forego all power ups.



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My Maps: Steep Learning Curve, Reckless Abandonment, The Rage


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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 490
PostPosted: 05-21-2015 05:11 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


just so everyone knows: there are two item loadouts. in ffa/tdm, the regen spawns. in tourney mode, a YA spawns there instead.

@foralarx: these were some of my main concerns with putting a regen there, which is why i was hesitant in the beginning to do it. i think the alt. loadout i suggested above might work well though, and if it pleases the majority of FFA players i am okay with it.

i think the reason powerups don't work in tourney mode is because they are just too powerful. it might not matter in a game with two novice players who make lots of mistakes anyway, but throw two pros in there and they will destroy each other.

p.s. remember that this is a tourney map first and foremost. vantage points above the big armors like the high path above the RA will be much more useful in tourney mode, but kind of irrelevant in FFA.




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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 1740
PostPosted: 05-22-2015 09:54 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Reffering to my decal tip I made simple arena with stairs and two tabun's decals. There is download with BSP for game and source for Radiant and some shots to preview:

Download sample map (PK3, place in baseq3)

Editor shots

In-game shots



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When you are worst off in your life, turn to face the sun and all the shadows will fall behind you.” - John Lennon


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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 490
PostPosted: 07-11-2015 11:15 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


hey, guys -- sorry for the delay. i am gonna release this soon. i've updated the link at the top to the release candidate. i think i got to all the bugs that everyone mentioned, but give me a heads up if you find anything.

major changes:
-bug fixes
-optimized for vertex/picmip modes
-changed item placement for FFA (let me know if you like the other way better!)

thanks,
pat




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Trainee
Trainee
Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 32
PostPosted: 07-12-2015 01:54 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hi Pat!

Glad that you like my vertexlight shader code and texture :)
Some credit would have been nice though ;)...

Code:
{
  map textures/phdm5/nothing.tga   // ## CHANGED (MAX) ## //
  blendfunc blend
  tcmod scale 0 0
  depthFunc equal
}

Idea: in vertexlight mode only the first shader stage is rendered. If you make that shader stage "nothing", slower machines should benefit from the reduced texture detail.
In Trespass the hack has been applied to the foliage and some other decorative elements.


Game Compatibility:

OpenArena:
overall: good
missing textures: none
missing files: none

UrbanTerror4:
overall: acceptable; jumppads, teleporters, high altitude drops
missing textures: /base_support/proto_grate4, /base_support/cable_trans
missing files: mini map (/maps/trespass.tga)

Xonotic:
overall: good
missing textures: /base_support/proto_grate4, /base_support/cable_trans
missing files: map info (/maps/trespass.mapinfo), levelshot (/maps/trespass.jpg)

Warsow:
overall: acceptable; spawn conflict with regeneration and player spawns in FFA
missing textures: /base_support/proto_grate4, /base_support/cable_trans
missing files: none

Too bad you didn't include the domination spawns for OpenArena, QuakeLive and Xonotic.
If you could fix/replace the missing textures/shaders from pak0.pk3, the map should be visually compatible with all the games listed above.


Archive (PK3) Size:
BETA: 27.9 MB
RC: 25.9 MB
OPTIMIZED: 21.6 MB

Try to use 7zip to create the pk3 archive. It'll give you a better compression for zip files. Using my small shell script (viewtopic.php?f=10&t=51072) the size of the pk3 can still be reduced by 4.5 MB ; from 25.9 MB down to 21.6 MB, that's 16% less than the original file. If you need help with the process, the already reduced images or a dos-batch version of that script, just let me know. You'll still need to download and install ImageMagick and jpegoptim though.


NOTE:
Always make sure to delete the file "Thumbs.db"!




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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 1740
PostPosted: 07-12-2015 03:20 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Pat, I'd only add the shadow decal under plants growing up from ground and it will be all okay :) Bot play is the true deathmatch, they are very agressive :) For me, add shadow decals under the plant and you can release it final :)



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When you are worst off in your life, turn to face the sun and all the shadows will fall behind you.” - John Lennon


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Trainee
Trainee
Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 32
PostPosted: 07-12-2015 03:31 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I found some more inconsistencies:

Missing NOPICMIP in the following shaders:
textures/phdm5/plant_leaf01a
textures/phdm5/plant_leaf01a_back
textures/phdm5/plant_leaf01b
textures/phdm5/plant_leaf01b_back
textures/phdm5/plant_leaf01d
textures/phdm5/plant_leaf01d_back
textures/phdm5/plant_leaf02a
textures/phdm5/plant_leaf02a_back
textures/phdm5/plant_leaf05a
textures/phdm5/plant_leaf05a_back
textures/phdm5/plant_grass01a
textures/phdm5/plant_grass01a_back
textures/phdm5/plant_grass01d
textures/phdm5/plant_grass01d_back
textures/phdm5/plant_mush_top01
textures/phdm5/plant_mush_back01
textures/phdm5/plant_mush_stem01
textures/phdm5/plant_lily1
textures/phdm5/plant_lily2

You can't have plant_ivy1, leaf and trunk with NOPICMIP and the rest of the plants without it. Looks weird :)

These shaders could benefit from the vertexlight code:
textures/phdm5/tab_decal_leak_b
textures/phdm5/tab_decal_stain_b
textures/phdm5/tab_decal_stain_c
textures/phdm5/tab_decal_stain_d
textures/phdm5/tab_decal_stain_e
Code:
{
map textures/phdm5/nothing.tga   // ## CHANGED (MAX) ## //
blendfunc blend
tcmod scale 0 0
depthFunc equal
}

Just add the code as the first stage to the shaders listed above.
BTW: All stain decals have NOPICMIP, so in conjunction with the missing nopicmip in the plant_ shaders, the map looks really inconsistent in low detail graphic modes.

Elements (teleporter, button, jumppad) that the player interacts with should always have NOPICMIP, imho:
TELEPORTER
textures/phdm5/tele
textures/phdm5/teleglow

JUMPPAD
textures/phdm5/jumpgrid
textures/phdm5/jumpring1
textures/phdm5/jumpring2
textures/phdm5/jumpring3
textures/phdm5/jumpring4


DETAIL COMPARISON (after fixing the shader):
R_VERTEXLIGHT 0; R_PICMIP 0 = foilage/plants visible, decals/stains visible
http://www.anony.ws/image/D1m0

R_VERTEXLIGHT 0; R_PICMIP 16 = foilage/plants visible, decals/stains visible
http://www.anony.ws/image/D1m8

R_VERTEXLIGHT 1; R_PICMIP 0 = foilage/plants hidden, decals/stains hidden
http://www.anony.ws/image/D1mR

R_VERTEXLIGHT 1; R_PICMIP 16 = foilage/plants hidden, decals/stains hidden
http://www.anony.ws/image/D1mh


FIXED SHADER:
http://pastebin.com/P4Paugn0




Last edited by m4xpower on 07-12-2015 04:01 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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\kill
\kill
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 913
PostPosted: 07-12-2015 03:34 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I was able to play it against two others, and it played wonderful. Been a while since I looked at this thread ... this map has come a long way, you're very talented, it looks amazing! Nice work :D




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 490
PostPosted: 07-12-2015 09:32 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


v1l3 wrote:
I was able to play it against two others, and it played wonderful. Been a while since I looked at this thread ... this map has come a long way, you're very talented, it looks amazing! Nice work

thanks! :)

m4xpower wrote:
Glad that you like my vertexlight shader code and texture
Some credit would have been nice though ...

i just haven't gotten around to crediting the shader file yet (though i know you had no way of knowing because i labeled this file the RC). i will add a note in the shader that this is your code. i appreciate your help with everything.

Quote:
I'd only add the shadow decal under plants growing up from ground

i'll try your decal method for this. thanks.
edit: hopefully it won't project on the plant model as well. if that's the case then i'll just have to leave a few plants without decals near the really bumpy terrain.




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Trainee
Trainee
Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 32
PostPosted: 07-12-2015 11:30 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Pat Howard wrote:
i just haven't gotten around to crediting the shader file yet (though i know you had no way of knowing because i labeled this file the RC). i will add a note in the shader that this is your code. i appreciate your help with everything.

:) don't cram that into the shader file. Readme.txt should suffice...




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 490
PostPosted: 07-12-2015 12:02 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


m4xpower wrote:
don't cram that into the shader file. Readme.txt should suffice...

sorry, but i don't usually do credits that way. if you're interested, here's how i do credits in my pk3:

README FILE
i credit anyone in the readme who has contributed assets to the map e.g. models, non-editor textures, and sounds.

SHADER FILE
i make a note in the shader file any time i borrow a shader from another person.

---

in the readme i no longer credit individuals who helped me on the forums with feedback. it's not because i don't appreciate them, it's just that i don't want to forget anyone. q3 is a small community but even still there are 20-50 people commenting on my maps. for a popular game like CS GO i'd imagine that number can go into the triple digits. i don't want to have to write a name down every time someone chimes in even though i appreciate all the feedback i get on these forums. instead, i just thank the community as a whole by including the URL of each forum i posted my map on.

i hope people are just giving feedback to be helpful and because they enjoy doing it. the only thing i can offer in return is my appreciation and the possibility that i will include their suggestions in my map.

i hope that makes sense, and thanks again to everyone for your help.

pat

edit: i suppose i could double credit people who contributed to the shader file by also listing them in the readme, but that seems a bit redundant to me. besides, i always felt like shaders change hands so often it's hard to know in most cases who was the original author.




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Trainee
Trainee
Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 32
PostPosted: 07-13-2015 08:21 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Pat Howard wrote:
I can't figure out what software to use to convert .wav files to 50kbps .ogg files so they will work in QL. If anyone can help me with this, please let me know.

try http://www.rarewares.org/ogg-oggenc.php
direct download: http://www.rarewares.org/files/ogg/ogge ... eneric.zip
Code:
oggenc2.exe -m 50 -M 50 <input>.wav <output>.ogg

The parameters -m and -M specifiy the min/max kbps.

Pat Howard wrote:
Also, in the Q3 version of this map I used an alternative item placement for FFA, but that doesn't seem to work for QL so I removed it. It seems that the gametype param was replaced with notgametype. I still need to test how this works.

Code:
NOT_GAMETYPE
0: Free For All
1: Duel                 
2: (Race?)
3: Team Deathmatch       
4: Clan Arena           
5: Capture the Flag     
6: One Flag CTF         
7: Overload             
8: Harvester             
9: Freeze Tag           
10: Domination           
11: Attack & Defend     
12: Red Rover

REGEN: replace "gametype" "team ffa" with "not_gametype" "1"
RA: replace "gametype" "tournament" with "not_gametype" "0 3"




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Mercenary
Mercenary
Joined: 06 Nov 2011
Posts: 247
PostPosted: 07-13-2015 01:24 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm pretty sure you can specify a game type in QL rather than specifying which ones not to use.




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Boink!
Boink!
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4493
PostPosted: 07-14-2015 07:54 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I really seem to be lagging behind with this map... neat detail, love all the broken glass and especially the greenery in the map. Uncanny all the detail that went into the map. Nicely done indeed.




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 490
PostPosted: 08-03-2015 02:38 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@m4x: thanks, i will try it.

@AEon: thanks so much!




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 490
PostPosted: 08-23-2015 10:05 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


hey, everyone. sorry for bumping this thread so many times, but i just wanted to let everyone know that i've updated the link at the top to the final version. i've added a few new details here and there and hopefully fixed all the bugs everyone found without creating any new ones in the process. thanks for all the great feedback on this map!

pat




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Veteran
Veteran
Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 173
PostPosted: 09-04-2015 06:45 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Nothing big but the file downloads as a zip file. I used PakScape to make it a pk3. I ran through it for
a while just checking it out. It looks nice Pat. Then I tried throwing in some bots. Just for the sake of
seeing what kind of load it would put on my system I tried using 8 bots. It didn't work out, it crashed
Q3 every time I tried. So I cut it back to 4 bots and that worked fine. I had a nice even 125 fps and it
played nice and smooth. I had a good time playing it but I'm sure it would be better with live players
in it. For the most part humans are a bit less predictable :) . It reminded me of some pics of an
abandoned factory I seen some time ago. I kept wanting to jump out the windows to go run around
outside(that could be a whole other map, Hint ,hint).




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