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Topic Starter Topic: Re: Screenshots
obsidian
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PostPosted: 03-28-2011 06:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I think some of the textures in the first screenshot may need a bit of work:

The texture on the pipes are tiling like tiger stripes. It gives your map a very horizontally layered-like-a-cake look when I think the high ceiling could be accentuated by some vertical lines. The pipes would help to create those, but the texture camouflages it away in more horizontal lines.

IMO, the "burned" edges of those yellow and orange panels could be lightened and neutralized a bit. It's hard to tell from the angle what material they are supposed to be but not very many materials would darken so much just along the edges.

I love the second shot. All the textures here look good and good uses of all the decals. I think you could continue the dark trim of the arches all the way down so they don't look like they're floating.

Great work otherwise, I think you've captured the theme.



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dONKEY
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PostPosted: 03-28-2011 09:38 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hey thanks Obsidian, some good pointers.
I reused the metal panel textures with the dark edges for the pipes. Now you point it out I think you have a point. When I've finished the geometry I'll look at new pipe textures.
It's difficult to explain but I was using the darkened edges (an I have decals in a similar style) to create an illusion of shadow so I can build with blocks and appear that the edges aren't straight. It gives a cartoony feel as well that I kind of liked. You guys can see when I'm done, I'm sure if it doesn't work you'll let me know.
As for the arches, yes the last section I am working on uses the trim all the way around and it does look better.
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Bonnebez
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PostPosted: 04-03-2011 05:01 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Poly orgies with recent games ( i am currently testing how many polys my 3 years old graphic card can display in quake 3 with a bunch of 1000 poly spheres that i put in a map, i will put the results in a moment)



http://images.gamersyde.com/image_vanqu ... 7_0001.jpg

Sometimes even others can over stretch textures, look at the beasty gun

http://gamerinvestments.com/video-game- ... eens-1.jpg
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Plan B
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PostPosted: 04-03-2011 05:33 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Impressive shots.
You're actually working on this, Bonnebez?
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Bonnebez
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PostPosted: 04-03-2011 06:00 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


No.

Here is the result of my bench map. I think i should get a recent graphic card

PS: i almost died from a heart attack during the test because my pc was doing a strange noise: i removed my headphones and it was the neighbor using his hoover....
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obsidian
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PostPosted: 04-03-2011 06:43 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


In case you aren't aware, the screenshots thread is for stuff that you are working on. It's a little confusing when you post pictures of other games here with little description.

Also, try to keep large screenshots to a minimum. Just resize them or link to them instead.

Thanks.



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Bonnebez
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PostPosted: 04-03-2011 07:03 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Noted. I didnt uploaded any picture yet.

Is it limited to stuf we are working on for quake 3 ?
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 04-03-2011 08:19 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Not necessarily. A few pages back you'll find screenshots from something someone is working on in UDK. Even further back there are screenshots for some wild-west game I can't remember the name of. But I'd say that since this is Quake3World, let's not go over board with screenshots of other games.
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o'dium
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PostPosted: 04-03-2011 09:53 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I just finished a new Field Ops head variant. It was based on this ref:

Image

Image
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mrd
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PostPosted: 04-03-2011 02:41 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Looks good, I think his jaw could be a smidge wider though.
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fKd
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PostPosted: 04-03-2011 04:45 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


hmmm something about it looks wrong, cant quite put my finger on it... its... off. it kinda looks like the whole thing has been stretched vertically or something, also the eyes look a little close together.. hmmm weird. sorry i cant be more helpful..
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Bonnebez
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PostPosted: 04-03-2011 05:19 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


If more than one person remark the same things then perhaps there is something.

Here is what, i think, we are refering to (it might have something to do with the perspective used to render the face, though ):



Sorry for having used your picture, but that's to illustrate what we were thinking about. I will delete it from its location within a day.
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fKd
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PostPosted: 04-03-2011 09:21 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


wip: this is the central upper section for my current ctf map.

Image


Image


Image
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 04-03-2011 10:56 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That looks great fKd. Really refreshing style.

Oh, I know it's WIP, but that jumppad in the last screenshot, it looks a bit lost, like it's not integral part of the geometry. And the entire floor it sits on is a bit of a big slap of texture-tiling.
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o'dium
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PostPosted: 04-03-2011 11:18 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


bonnebez, no, lol, not a chance in hell I would deform it that way, that looks retarded.

What you are seeing is the FOV causing perspective issues. Nothing to do with the mesh, which I assure you is within realistic proportions.

However I'm so not happy with that hair/hairline, I'll re-do the texture when I get home from work.
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 04-03-2011 11:24 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


bonnebez, remember, o'dium is never at fault. It's always the perspective. Even if you're seeing the model from three different perspectives. Remember that. Never question the o'dium.
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Silicone_Milk
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PostPosted: 04-04-2011 01:14 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


o'dium wrote:
bonnebez, no, lol, not a chance in hell I would deform it that way, that looks retarded.

What you are seeing is the FOV causing perspective issues. Nothing to do with the mesh, which I assure you is within realistic proportions.

However I'm so not happy with that hair/hairline, I'll re-do the texture when I get home from work.


Then take some screenshots using an FOV that doesn't cause your models to look different than what you intend.
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 04-04-2011 02:16 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


o'dium rage in 3... 2... 1...
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SoM
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PostPosted: 04-04-2011 03:05 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


:olo:



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o'dium
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PostPosted: 04-04-2011 05:01 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


There's far more going on than you likely think at first glance. FOV is a tricky thing to work with when taking in engine shots because of how it works. There's a reason games have recently adapted a closer zoomed in FOV over what were used to in the 90's, and it's not all to do with console ports. Sure it factors into things like the distance we sit from the tv being more than that of a computer monitor, but it looks more natural, too. Let's not forget FOV implementations too, horizontal FOV vs vertical FOV, all sorts. Anyway this is a case of six of one half a dozen the other. I change the FOV and maybe the head looks too small. Or maybe the face looks to big for the head. It's not as simple as you may think. Model editors have a totally different FOV setup as games, some times having extremely low FOV. Each one works differently, and it would likely look right in a model editor shot.

The problem is, I can't really post model editor shots because that solves one problem and opens other. OverDose has very specific rendering capabities, post processing, specular power/scale, alpha to coverage, bump mapped environment mapping, rim lighting, sub surface scattering... The list goes on. The point is posting bullshots from editors is like a huge lie. People like to see the gestalt result they want to look and know that's exactly what they are getting.

I can't do much now, but when I get home from work and after I fix the hair/hairline, I'll post shots from different editors as well as multiple shots from different angles at different fovs ingame.

Some of you think I don't care, but I dont say snit unless I have a reason to back it up. I always listen to crits, even if I dont agree, so trust me I'll check the scales again later.

But I would appreciate it if people didn't jump down my throat as if I'm just pulling shit out of my arse.

I also typed this from an iPhone so Sorry for typos etc.




Last edited by o'dium on 04-04-2011 05:15 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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o'dium
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PostPosted: 04-04-2011 05:07 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Also, this is LEM eraser/. Im all for some good old fashioned fisticuffs, but so far you haven't added anything even remotely worthwhile to this thread other than flaming and baiting. Feel free to post your tears in the void about me, though.
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o'dium
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PostPosted: 04-04-2011 08:25 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ok, well I'll update the shots with the new textures in a min and a different FOV, but first, here.

This shows the difference FOV makes to showsing stuff. First a static pic (the original shot up top, was FOV 35)

Image

And now an animation because you can't always tell from a pic just how much difference there is. But its a HUGE difference:

Image

I'm leaning towards around 75-80ish, for future shots? Thoughts?

Right, anyway, to re-do that shot...
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neoplan
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PostPosted: 04-04-2011 08:50 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@fKd: Really nice screenshots! You must never stop mapping for q3!

Two screenshots of my WIP:

Image

Image
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obsidian
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PostPosted: 04-04-2011 09:01 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Reminds me a bit of Skyland.



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Bonnebez
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PostPosted: 04-04-2011 09:02 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Players use a lot of different color / contrast / lighting settings with their monitors and game config. For exemple i discovered that the shots that i uploaded are approx. 2 times brighter on my work machine than on my home machine. Also a same level played at work or at home have a completely different lighting for a same game config and monitor settings but a different graphic card. How do you handle these differences, is there a way to make it so a level appear as closely as possible as what you want it to appear on someone else screen ?
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neoplan
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PostPosted: 04-04-2011 09:09 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
Reminds me a bit of Skyland.


I got inspired by a Gorillaz video (Feel good).
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obsidian
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PostPosted: 04-04-2011 10:29 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Bonnebez wrote:
How do you handle these differences, is there a way to make it so a level appear as closely as possible as what you want it to appear on someone else screen ?


Use a monitor calibration tool. Test map with a default config. Toy around with -gamma and -compensate to match between r_overbrightbits 1/0.



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Bonnebez
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PostPosted: 04-04-2011 11:48 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I see the light ! I should have done this way earlier....

If you are interested, when i watched your pictures with my old gamma i saw them with 2 completely black. Now i see them with only 0 completely black (and see a lot more flaws in my stuff too).

Image
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Bonnebez
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PostPosted: 04-04-2011 12:14 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


To donkey: the brick wall on the center of the second screenshot look really cool
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Silicone_Milk
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PostPosted: 04-04-2011 12:37 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
Reminds me a bit of Skyland.


Reminds me of that one Half-Life 2 DM map with the lighthouse on top of an island.
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fKd
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PostPosted: 04-04-2011 08:40 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


flag base ceiling (very early wip) :

Image
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nitin77
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PostPosted: 04-05-2011 04:55 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


fkd,

looks awesome.


Odium,

Shouldnt it look right in whatever FOV the engine is in? From those shots, I'd say the one for FOV 65 looks the best/most well proportioned. But is the engine going to use FOV 65? If not, I think it needs tweaking.
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o'dium
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PostPosted: 04-05-2011 05:12 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


A beauty render with the head taking up the entire screen isn't the same. It's "impossible" to model a head that looks correct at any FOV.
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fKd
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PostPosted: 04-05-2011 08:19 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


what?
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o'dium
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PostPosted: 04-05-2011 11:19 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Models look differently based on distance to/from the camera point of origin and the FOV used.

In other words, you are trying to focus on a tiny area such as a head, by having to be close to the model ingame with the camera origin near by. This will distort the head at any FOV other than really low values, but then low values will also distort the mesh into making the scales look off. OR, you stay far away and thne just use low values, but same issue.

Or you could all just stop being pedantic. The mesh looks fine, its not the same as looking at a level. But even then you msut be able to agree you can't get the same sense of scale from a level shot when they are using different FOV's. Game engines dont work that way.
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