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Topic Starter Topic: Final - The Immortal Coil - Q3A Map (Tourney / Small FFA)

Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 305
PostPosted: 04-12-2020 06:20 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Edit: Small update to the download file to separate the bot and map files to separate pk3s.

Remake of Retinal's q2duel5 map "Mortal Coil" for with adoptions for Q3A play. Also switched up the item layout (original just has weapon with ammo for it right next to it), to encourage movement.

Default bot is Visor, which shouldn't present a challenge for anyone, even at Nightmare level. To spice things up, I've included an old bot friend from Q2 "Demigod". For those not in the know, Demigod is an invisible bot so the only thing you can see is the weapon bobbing around. Makes for an interesting challenge and a lot of "BOO" factor moments :)

@TheMuffinMan I've added a credit for the line of sight feedback in the readme. Thanks Dude.



Map can be found here

Thanks in advance

Ian AKA Fora.



_________________
My Maps: Steep Learning Curve, Reckless Abandonment, The Rage, The Immortal Coil


Last edited by foralarx2k3 on 06-18-2020 12:08 AM, edited 8 times in total.

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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 363
PostPosted: 04-13-2020 04:41 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


A fan of the original, so I was curious to see how this develops!

The problem with scaling up the map dimensions is while it adapts to Q3's physics, you also need to adapt individual areas to the resulting changes in line of sight - which was an issue I had with your take on The Rage. Sometimes sight is blocked and sometimes the map is too open.

RG vis from near GL:



HB/PG and CG/LG visibility near Quad:



RG platform vis to YA floor, not a huge difference but still worth considering:



Tbh I had blocked out my own version some years back but I think the overall scaling does work better in yours. The original was so cramped like first-gen Q1 level design, so translating that style to Q3 isn't easy. Some areas feel a bit too big, especially around the areas in the screenshots - I'd suggest making some corridors and platforms slightly narrower and once again keeping an eye on the line of sight... I think that would help to better translate the gameplay to Q3 as the original was more punishing and full of choke points.

Other than that the item layout and geometry seems good. With some changes I think you could be on to a real winner here. :up:




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 305
PostPosted: 04-13-2020 12:20 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@themuffinman,

Thanks for the feedback. Totally appreciate it. I'll see what I can do to address most of this over the coming days. Whilst I want to stay as close to the original as possible I do want to allow for the movement in the platform I'm building it in. It'll be hard to please everyone, but I will try if I think it merit's it and these certainly do.

On a side note, I've just realized from your Quad Q2 shot that the wall to the right of the quad over the lower hallway is actually subtly angled, so I'll re-construct mine like that.

Also thanks for the plus 1 on the item layout, though I still think it needs tweaking. If you feel anything is out of place there if you happen to get a few more games on it, please feel free to drop a comment on it.

Thanks again.

Ian AKA Fora.



_________________
My Maps: Steep Learning Curve, Reckless Abandonment, The Rage, The Immortal Coil


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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 305
PostPosted: 04-14-2020 05:18 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@themuffinman, thanks for the hints:-

Moving this to Release Candidate. @All let me know if there's anything untoward here.

Updates:- Fixed Line of sight issues, added new lighting, add sound, swapped out some textures.

For comparison from themuffinman's post and rc version:-

RG vis from near GL:



HB/PG and CG/LG visibility near Quad:



RG platform vis to YA floor, not a huge difference but still worth considering:



_________________
My Maps: Steep Learning Curve, Reckless Abandonment, The Rage, The Immortal Coil


Last edited by foralarx2k3 on 04-15-2020 01:36 PM, edited 3 times in total.

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Gibblet
Gibblet
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 18
PostPosted: 04-15-2020 11:37 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Downloading :)




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 305
PostPosted: 04-15-2020 01:09 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


RaspAtan wrote:
Downloading :)


Just moved this to Final... grab the updated version from the first post or here

Enjoy



_________________
My Maps: Steep Learning Curve, Reckless Abandonment, The Rage, The Immortal Coil


Last edited by foralarx2k3 on 06-18-2020 12:08 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 363
PostPosted: 04-16-2020 03:48 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Cool beans! Which map is next?




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 305
PostPosted: 04-16-2020 07:59 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thinking I might have a go with q2duel3 Aka, Brutal Force by Jens Andreasson. But if I do I really want to make sure I get the tightness right on that one. Scaling for Q3 might present issues. Also I'm in the mood for doing a CTF map but one of my own ideas. Will see what time I get to play.



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My Maps: Steep Learning Curve, Reckless Abandonment, The Rage, The Immortal Coil


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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 43197
PostPosted: 04-17-2020 12:40 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Played some matches against bots on this map.
It's a solid map. Looks good. Plays well. Really nice work.

One rather large complaint I have is the inclusion of the "demigod" bot though. It's an invisible Hunter skin which is, well, kind of not done. The skin files are actually in the same pk3 as the map, so if anyone wants to put your map up on a server, it means all players playing on that server can select the invisible Hunter skin and be invisible. That just won't do.
I guess the desire of being featured on servers isn't as big as it used to anymore, but it's still a slight annoyance that when I set g_botMinPlayers to some value for local games, there's this small chance of having an invisible Hunter spawn in there, which is not really preferable. If I were you, I'd distribute the map (including required assets) in its own pk3 file and put a separate pk3 file for the skin+botfiles in the ZIP. This way, people can choose whether or not they want to keep the invisible skin around.




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 305
PostPosted: 04-17-2020 11:54 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@Eraser, valid point on the bot .... I've updated the zip file with seperate pk3s for the map and the bot.

Thanks

Fora.



_________________
My Maps: Steep Learning Curve, Reckless Abandonment, The Rage, The Immortal Coil


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This is not Æon!
This is not Æon!
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 2174
PostPosted: 04-19-2020 03:05 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Played a few matches too. That was a fun level to play, looks default and plays well =) Played with CPMA bot skill on 30 and vanilla quake3 rules.

I would suggest a change from those buggy platforms to jumppads, but perhaps people don't care much about that these days. Remove the bot.



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Q3Map2 2516 -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/q3map_2.5.16_win32_x86.zip
Q3Map2 FS_20g -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/q3map2_fs_20g.rar
GtkRadiant 140 -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/GtkRadiantSetup-1.4.0-Q3RTCWET.exe


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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 43197
PostPosted: 04-25-2020 08:59 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


foralarx2k3 wrote:
@Eraser, valid point on the bot .... I've updated the zip file with seperate pk3s for the map and the bot.

:up:




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Warrior
Warrior
Joined: 14 Aug 2016
Posts: 94
PostPosted: 06-18-2020 12:03 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


foralarx2k3, hi, mate! =) very nice conversion, it's a pity I saw it so late.. I wasn't a big fan of the original tho ))
I remember, I didn't finish your fixes on "The Vomitorium", now I think, I'll have more time for it. :) AT LAST :D
some paranoic suggestions from me: :P

first of all - I'd get these supports higher, thinner and clipped. or removed. or made nonsolid with weapclips
..and would light up these 2 banners (better adding q3map_surfacelight # to it's shader):
Image

it's better to make plats activated by trigger_multiple, cause otherwise player can try to escape but get this (and the rocket to his head):
Image

I'd move YA this way a little. when you run clinging to the wall you can miss the armor (but it's my personal feeling):
Image

this bar (red arrow) needs to be clipped. it's strange, but it seemed to me that I can’t enter these corners (blue arrows), but why? =))
Image

and the cosmetix:
textures are getting expanded on angular brushes, I'd apply them with stretch 0.375 (instead of 0.5). and moved the pattern a bit:
Image

I dunno why Hipshot wrote nothing about this ;D
Image


that's all, the rest it superb! =) I'd like everything to be a bit more stretched vertically tho. :) if it would be so, you could expand this area horizontally making the Quad jump longer and not giving the players a straight line to rail each other on this angle (this is very annoying on a tight maps, with the bots esp ;D):
Image

P.S. I've tried CPMA bots and threw my favourite bot away - they are real freakin' beasts! but nevertheless I won Apheleon70 12:4 on this map ez. ;P
cool map! keep it up!




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 305
PostPosted: 06-20-2020 06:46 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@Obsessed: Hey Dude, Thanks for the compliments. I'll use the constructive criticism and feedback as reference for my next map, really appreciate it and the time you took.

Some comments from my side:-

1) Some of the corner / doorway player clippings are there to stop hangs in movement in those corners, it's something I took from the original ID maps, though I might have gone a little mad with it here :p
2) Should of made the overhangs non-solid with weapclips, I agree. That said, I must of played a hundred or more games on this now (is there something strange about really liking your own map this much :confused:), and I've never found them to be an issue.
3) The upper yellow armor position is intentional. It's closer to the edge where splash damage makes it a risk to take cleanly. That's my take on it and I'm sticking with it :)
4) Thanks for the note on the angular brushes. Never occurred to me :duh: :dork:
5) Scaling is always an issue bringing maps from another platform and I guess you can't please everyone. That said I think the tightness of the original is pretty well captured here and the line of sight is pretty good (no small thanks to themuffinman for that).
6) Man, don't upset Hipshot and his OCD on texture alignments, he was enjoying the map :sly:

Again really appreciate it dude. BTW: really like the CPM re-texture. Will maybe write more on that soon.

Ian
AKA Fora!



_________________
My Maps: Steep Learning Curve, Reckless Abandonment, The Rage, The Immortal Coil


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Warrior
Warrior
Joined: 14 Aug 2016
Posts: 94
PostPosted: 06-20-2020 01:29 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


foralarx2k3, it wasn't just retexture! :D anyway, I obviously was lucky to have THIS map to work with. :)




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