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Topic Starter Topic: Re: Doom Snap Map

Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
Messatsu Ko Jy-ouu
Joined: 24 Nov 2000
Posts: 43569
PostPosted: 08-09-2015 11:57 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


lol id




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Insane Quaker
Insane Quaker
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 489
PostPosted: 08-11-2015 08:08 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


that sucks. maybe they got discouraged by the lack of modding that went on in Rage. then again, did anyone here really enjoy rage? honest question - i never played it. i'm just wondering if the lack of modding was due to the game being bad or if it was the difficulty of the map editor, or a combination of both?




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Boink!
Boink!
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4493
PostPosted: 08-11-2015 10:29 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I actually like Rage a lot... exploration and many other fun things to do where pretty neat. On the other hand I am not really looking forward to DOOM IV... I would have preferred Rage II.

IIRC, you needed insane hardware to mod for Rage, and even then it was really clunky and slow. And it was a huge undertaking to create anything worth mentioning. So most folks, like probably all the old-timers here, just skipped it.

I still see the future of Q3A in Reflex mapping. Hopefully that will become true... apparently Reflex will have bot support... so solo playing off-line should be fun too.




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Mercenary
Mercenary
Joined: 06 Nov 2011
Posts: 240
PostPosted: 08-11-2015 11:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I enjoyed rage somewhat, but quake has killed single player games for me - I can't simply play for the story any more; I have to explore and break whatever I can. Rage didn't have a whole lot to explore, and the story was pretty meh. I liked strafe jumping, and the levels were pretty, albeit really lacking in texture quality. I dunno, I would try making something for rage but the toolkit doesn't work for me, and just getting the game to run was a lot. The fact that it was a port made it kinda sad too; it had really bad mouse support.




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Immortal
Immortal
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 2462
PostPosted: 08-11-2015 01:58 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Rage was awesome, except for the final mission. No sense of closure at all.




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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 42164
PostPosted: 01-28-2016 12:31 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote





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I'm the dude!
I'm the dude!
Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12239
PostPosted: 01-28-2016 08:35 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It depends on how extensible Snap Map will be. Can I import my own textures and models? If so, it would still allow a fairly large degree of creative freedom. I can't tell from the videos, but I hope I can also make a lot of non-axial layouts.



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Gibblet
Gibblet
Joined: 19 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: 01-28-2016 08:57 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It seems to me that you wont be able to import your own textures and stuff, at least not at the beginning. Because in the video they also state that the finished mods and maps will only be a few kilobytes in size as everybody already has the textures and models on his computer. He specifically mentions that content created with snap map should be as accessible as possible so that they allow for a nice gameflow without downloading necessary files. I hope im wrong though.




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The Afflicted
The Afflicted
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 848
PostPosted: 01-28-2016 11:04 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I think it will be like an Drag&Drop of prefabs only, looks like an Smartphone App. Hopefully im wrong with that!
They also said that everyone can edit your work after downloading it. :smirk:

EDIT:But im happy when its out, Doom3 was not my Game :)



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Immortal
Immortal
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: 01-28-2016 03:45 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Sometimes having these restrictions just mean you have to work a bit harder to come up with original stuff. I'm sure after a few weeks there will be some brilliant stuff out there.

Should be an interesting game, after the next Witcher 3 expansion (which I'm fully amped about) this is my next purchase.




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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 42164
PostPosted: 01-29-2016 04:41 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I don't doubt that you can create quite a few interesting things with SnapMap.

I've been inspired by John Romero releasing a new Doom map. Never having done any Doom mapping myself, I downloaded DoomBuilder 2 and started hacking away at a map of my own. I don't use any custom textures or other assets nor any of the "advanced" features zdoom offers, but I love doing this, mostly because there's such a pile of limitations to work with. Having all these limitations really forces you to stretch your mind and come up with interesting things to do with the tools that are available to you. I find it more pleasing than having an engine that can do everything (although that probably also has to do with the short amount of time it takes to set up an initial layout for a Doom map compared to doing the same in, say, Quake 3).




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Boink!
Boink!
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 4493
PostPosted: 01-29-2016 01:54 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


SnapMap, IMO, is nice for those that are mapping-challenged, i.e. never built any maps, and want to play around with a simple layout and have an idea or two about item placement. And if they and their friends get some fun out of putting in very little effort... than that is fine and does the "fun" part of the job the editor set out to do.

But that means endless repetition of the same design, and pretty much same layouts of maps, and this will get really boring very fast. And the way things look, if you actually want to create your own modular map parts, that will be hugely difficult and time consuming... if not impossible.

So I like the idea... but if you cannot really do anything creative with it yourself, it is pretty much pointless. Generic mapping just is not going to do it... well at least not for me.

Should the editor be very much more flexible, please point that out to me, but I doubt it.




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I'm the dude!
I'm the dude!
Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12239
PostPosted: 01-30-2016 07:35 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


If you fast forward to about 23:05, Marty Stratton talks about some of the gameplay triggers that you can do in Snapmap that seems kind of interesting.



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The Afflicted
The Afflicted
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 848
PostPosted: 01-31-2016 07:40 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


THX 4 the link Obsidian!
But i still dont know if i can do my own geometry and or prefabs, i think only time will tell. :)
I dont want to escort a zombie or make spawn boxes in a race-map.
Dont get me wrong, im really waiting for this game -but id would be nice to "edit" it the old fashioned style too!



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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 42164
PostPosted: 01-31-2016 09:41 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AndyW, I think Rage has shown us that the prerequisites for building an idTech 5 map are so steep that it's something hardly anyone attempts. I think SnapMap will invigorate the modding community rather than kill it with "dumbed down" tools. There's very little left to kill anyway.

Also, from what I've seen, SnapMap allows you to do some interesting things with event driven triggers that allow you to create a wide diversity of goals and gameplay mechanics. I think the most interesting things won't come from layout planning but rather from what people can do with the "scripting" system.
When approached from a competitive Arena shooter's level designers' perspective, that may seem like dumbing down the whole thing. Sure, maybe that's one way to look at it, but I look at it in a more casual way. In my mind, I'm drawing parallels to Mario Maker.

Personally, I doubt Id Software will bother with releasing full fledged level design tools. Their money (both literally and proverbially) clearly is on SnapMap so I don't think they'll release a level editor limited to PC users which requires a godawful lot of support as well.




Last edited by Eraser on 02-01-2016 12:23 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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The Afflicted
The Afflicted
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 848
PostPosted: 01-31-2016 11:36 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@Eraser: You're dead right! Sometimes less is more -hopefully it wont end up in a map-spam seen @ql at this time.



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Gibblet
Gibblet
Joined: 19 Jan 2016
Posts: 20
PostPosted: 02-05-2016 10:38 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I read an article in a german pc magazine today. They said that SnapMap only provides basic editing stuff regarding maps, textures and sounds etc and is limited to a specific file size. But the script editor is really advanced so you can create own game modes like music games with working piano keys, parkour-games alà mirrors edge or tower defense modes. However, id is thinking about adding a full fledged SDK later on when the game is finished.




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