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scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ https://www.quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=51294 |
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Author: | Scorch_ [ 08-06-2015 06:51 AM ] |
Post subject: | scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
Scdm3 is a small duel map inspired various cpma and reflex maps and barrows its appearance (temporarily) from the map cpm1a or "wicked" as its known in QL. Download Q3 Download QL Some things I'd like feedback on:
Notes
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Author: | Martinus [ 08-07-2015 03:45 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
This map is too damn small and super simple for me. You should put something interesting on that platform where the floating armor shards are. The map has some junction leaks(?) ...(I think) The map is in a big box... this isn't good. The map doesn't have bot support... |
Author: | Scorch_ [ 08-07-2015 06:17 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
Martinus wrote: This map is too damn small and super simple for me. You should put something interesting on that platform where the floating armor shards are. The map has some junction leaks(?) ...(I think) The map is in a big box... this isn't good. The map doesn't have bot support... Not exactly sure what you mean by "junction leaks" if your talking about just regular leaks into the "void" then the map shouldn't have any. The reason the map is in a large box is because its in alpha, I don't have to worry about leaks as I make major structural changes based on feedback. Bot support will probably be the last thing I add once the map is ready for release, also what did you have in mind for the platform by the shards? |
Author: | Pat Howard [ 08-08-2015 08:36 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
hey, this looks nice. i definitely think this is an improvement over your last two layouts. at first i also thought the layout was too simple, but after running the bottom level i liked the way the rooms were connected. it is a bottom loop, but there are elevation changes and there is also an interesting one-way path slicing through the middle holding the LG. the caged central YA is also an interesting idea. at this point i would just focus on what the battles are going to be like between the RA and MH (see my item placement guide, section 1.6: Pathing). right now the obvious choice from RA to MH is the bouncer, but this is also the riskiest way. this is a good balance, although i do think taking a bouncer through a circular hole in the floor is a bit gimmicky and is likely to annoy more serious players. this is probably the weak point of the map for me. i also thought the teleporter system was extremely weird. the tele by the GL makes you think you are going to end up straight above on the tall platform, and indeed you do come out on a raised platform, but it's a different one on the other side of the map. is this bad? i'm not sure without testing, but i know it would take me some getting used to for me. if you keep it this way, make sure when you detail the map you spend a lot of time distinguishing these areas from each other. anyway, solid work. it would be cool to see you finish this one. |
Author: | Pat Howard [ 08-09-2015 12:36 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
Scorch_ wrote: I'm really not sure how to get bots working what exactly is your problem with bot support? are you just not sure which commands to use? if that's the case, i've included a simple batch file below: Code: set Q3_PATH="path to your q3a folder" set COMP_PATH="path to q3map2.exe" set BOT_PATH="path to bspc.exe" set MAP_PATH="path to your .map file" set GEN_OPTIONS=-fs_basepath %Q3_PATH% %COMP_PATH% -meta %GEN_OPTIONS% %MAP_PATH% %COMP_PATH% -vis %GEN_OPTIONS% %MAP_PATH% %COMP_PATH% -light -fast -patchshadows -samples 6 -bounce 16 -dirty %GEN_OPTIONS% %MAP_PATH% %BOT_PATH% -forcesidesvisible -optimize -bsp2aas %MAP_PATH% pause throw that in a text file named filename.bat with the file paths filled in and you're good to go. of course, you'll have to have your map properly sealed up from the void for bots to work as expected. note: if you are just working with quake live and haven't installed q3a then i'm not sure what the file paths will look like. in that case you may have to do some searching on your own, or maybe check out cityy's guides on the QL forums. Scorch_ wrote: Hey pat I'm glad you like the map, your feedback on my last map and your write up on connectivity systems(great read btw!) was a big driving force behind this one. great! i wasn't sure how many people read that, so it's nice to know it helped you. Scorch_ wrote: For the bounce pad by the MH was it just the circle in the floor that you thought was gimmicky or did you think the whole set piece (hole in the floor, position of the bounce pad, ect) was gimmicky? i just don't like the mechanic of having a bouncer shoot through a circular hole in the floor. i always worry about hitting my head, and it's impossible to see if your opponent is waiting for you when you get up there, hence the gimmicky feeling. |
Author: | Scorch_ [ 09-20-2015 11:57 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
Hey Pat thanks for the help so far, I've run into a slight snag with the script you gave me. After filling out the file paths and running it as a .bat file a command prompt will pop up and do a whole bunch of stuff thats similar to compiling a map with gtkradiant, the problem is that after doing that it doesn't produce an .aas file the only thing it seems to do is make the map brighter (before: 1 2 after: 1 2) Below I've included the script with the paths filled out let me know if something wrong with it. Another issue I've been having with this map specifically in quake 3 is texture related, I can't seem to get the textures for the bounce pad, spinny things below items, and teleporters working. Previously I also couldn't get the sky texture to work but fixed that by editing a shader script, I tried to do the same with the other textures but it didn't work. All the right textures are in the right folder and they show up just fine in radiant but for some reason just appear as the default black box with white outline texture in quake 3. 1 2 3 |
Author: | Martinus [ 09-20-2015 02:06 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
Did you get a log file after the AAS complier done? |
Author: | Scorch_ [ 09-20-2015 10:09 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
Martinus wrote: Did you get a log file after the AAS complier done? No, I didn't get a log file in either the quake 3 folder or the gtkradiant folder. |
Author: | Scorch_ [ 09-21-2015 09:34 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
AndyW wrote: If you want post the *.map File. I will try to compile it and post a full compile-log. Just send me an PM EDIT: Without an Log its hard to find the Error. Once i had the problem that some 45deg rotated patch-cylinders caused an error that ended up in a broken AAS. I like the Map but would also say do something cool with the floatin armor-shards-platform... Maybe remove the bars in the window to the YA. You have to get that AAS fixed so you can try out gameplay a bit. Take a look at my killer Paint-Skills! Heres the .map file if you need any others just let me know. Download As for your suggested changes, I understand why you'd suggest removing the pillar up top but I'm not so sure I understand the addition of a jump pad on top of the teleporter platform. For the bars below are you suggesting I remove the stairs and turn the bars into a ramp or that I should just remove the bars and add a small ledge that a player can trick jump up similar to the windows on cpm15? |
Author: | AndyW [ 09-21-2015 11:38 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
BOT FILE PART: D:\QLMapping\Q3Map2Build>"D:\QLMapping\GtkRadiant\bspc.exe" -bsp2aas "D:\QLMappi ng\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\scdm3v013q3.bsp" -forcesidesvisible -optimize Opened log bspc.log BSPC version 2.1h, Aug 24 2013 23:20:03 forcesidesvisible = true optimize = true bsp2aas: D:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\scdm3v013q3.bsp to D:\QLMapping\ wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\scdm3v013q3.aas -- Q3_LoadMapFromBSP -- Loading map from D:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\scdm3v013q3.bsp... 6954 triangles 810 patch tris creating planar surface planes... searching visible brush sides... 7722 brush sides 7722 brush sides textured out of 7722 nummapbrushsides = 15113 94 curve brushes 1 threads -------- Brush CSG --------- 2238 original brushes 1887 output brushes -------- Brush BSP --------- 1887 brushes 10761 visible faces 0 nonvisible faces 13413 total sides Win32 multi-threading 1 threads max depth first bsp building 11310ERROR: Tried parent Closed log bspc.log D:\QLMapping\Q3Map2Build>Pause Drücken Sie eine beliebige Taste . . . Rest: I had the same error with rotated curves in a map... I will take a look, maybe i find the problem. |
Author: | AndyW [ 09-21-2015 12:06 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
Yaay, hail to the box! I think i cant help you with that. Id would remove the box and search for the error. Your curves are not sealed to the VOID, but i think this should not be a problem cause its a Box. Sorry Man! |
Author: | Pat Howard [ 09-27-2015 02:29 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
@scorch: hmm... i have a separate folder for q3map2. the whole package can be downloaded here, in the "downloads" section. i use the q3map2.exe and bspc.exe that comes with that download. here's what my paths look like: Code: set Q3_PATH="C:\Program Files\Quake iii arena" set COMP_PATH="C:\Program Files\Quake iii arena\q3map2\q3map2.exe" set BOT_PATH="C:\Program Files\Quake iii arena\q3map2\bspc.exe" set MAP_PATH="C:\Program Files\Quake iii arena\baseq3\maps\raptor.map" set GEN_OPTIONS=-fs_basepath %Q3_PATH% %COMP_PATH% -meta %GEN_OPTIONS% %MAP_PATH% %COMP_PATH% -vis %GEN_OPTIONS% %MAP_PATH% %COMP_PATH% -light -fast -patchshadows -samples 6 -bounce 16 -dirty %GEN_OPTIONS% %MAP_PATH% %BOT_PATH% -forcesidesvisible -optimize -bsp2aas %MAP_PATH% pause as far as debugging, try using the "pause" command after each line. the command prompt will then wait for you to press any key before it continues on to the next line. that way, you can read everything that happened up to that point and look for any errors. and as andy said, if you haven't properly sealed up your map at this point, i would do that before trying to compile the .aas file. it will probably work either way as long as the map isn't leaked, but the .bsp and .aas compiles will be more efficient if the map is sealed. hope you figure it out. pat |
Author: | AndyW [ 09-28-2015 06:44 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
I have another idea! Select all you stuff and move it some units in every direction + height. That fixed a problem that i had once. Its worth a try, sometimes its just strange simple suff FOGRET IT! Just tried. It looks like you have problems with some curves, i tried to fix what if found. This is exactly the error i had 2 months ago. I deleted the curves and rebuild them. Maybe its worth a try to botclip the curves. D:\QLMapping\Q3Map2Build>"D:\QLMapping\GtkRadiant\bspc.exe" -bsp2aas "D:\QLMappi ng\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\scdm3.bsp" -forcesidesvisible -optimize Opened log bspc.log BSPC version 2.1h, Aug 24 2013 23:20:03 forcesidesvisible = true optimize = true bsp2aas: D:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\scdm3.bsp to D:\QLMapping\wolfca mql10.3\baseq3\maps\scdm3.aas -- Q3_LoadMapFromBSP -- Loading map from D:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\scdm3.bsp... 6971 triangles 792 patch tris creating planar surface planes... searching visible brush sides... 7610 brush sides 7610 brush sides textured out of 7610 nummapbrushsides = 14855 42 curve brushesWARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel 63 curve brushesWARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel 92 curve brushes 1 threads -------- Brush CSG --------- 2194 original brushes 1845 output brushes -------- Brush BSP --------- 1845 brushes 10501 visible faces 0 nonvisible faces 13140 total sides Win32 multi-threading 1 threads max depth first bsp building 11789ERROR: Tried parent Closed log bspc.log D:\QLMapping\Q3Map2Build>Pause Drücken Sie eine beliebige Taste . . . |
Author: | AndyW [ 09-28-2015 08:58 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
Okay, I removed the box and sealed the map up. Also I found the invalid bevels and fixed them. But still this ERROR remains: D:\QLMapping\Q3Map2Build>"D:\QLMapping\GtkRadiant\bspc.exe" -bsp2aas "D:\QLMappi ng\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\scdm3.bsp" -forcesidesvisible -optimize Opened log bspc.log BSPC version 2.1h, Aug 24 2013 23:20:03 forcesidesvisible = true optimize = true bsp2aas: D:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\scdm3.bsp to D:\QLMapping\wolfca mql10.3\baseq3\maps\scdm3.aas -- Q3_LoadMapFromBSP -- Loading map from D:\QLMapping\wolfcamql10.3\baseq3\maps\scdm3.bsp... 6640 triangles 594 patch tris creating planar surface planes... searching visible brush sides... 7614 brush sides 7614 brush sides textured out of 7614 nummapbrushsides = 14863 62 curve brushes 1 threads -------- Brush CSG --------- 2134 original brushes 1826 output brushes -------- Brush BSP --------- 1826 brushes 10408 visible faces 0 nonvisible faces 13009 total sides Win32 multi-threading 1 threads max depth first bsp building 11775ERROR: Tried parent Closed log bspc.log D:\QLMapping\Q3Map2Build>Pause Drücken Sie eine beliebige Taste . . . Any Ideas?? EDIT: Found some stuff here: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?act ... pic=5114.0 I will try on, i love bugfixing |
Author: | AndyW [ 09-28-2015 11:41 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
GOOD NEWS MAN! I was able to fix it, now you have Bot-support Sir! I dont know what caused the error so i started deleting stuff, lights, some items, lava and Voila- it worked. Some items were stuck into walls. I deleted the teleporter-links. You have to rebuild some small things that i killed but i did only some changes to the Jumper and deleted some curves and seald up stuff... And removed the box I also removed the sky-texture for testing, here you go! Always take care to seal up curved-patches from the void! Cityy did an amazing tutorial about this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW33w0-z0Qk I send you a link via PM! |
Author: | Scorch_ [ 09-29-2015 05:26 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
Pat Howard wrote: as far as debugging, try using the "pause" command after each line. the command prompt will then wait for you to press any key before it continues on to the next line. that way, you can read everything that happened up to that point and look for any errors. and as andy said, if you haven't properly sealed up your map at this point, i would do that before trying to compile the .aas file. it will probably work either way as long as the map isn't leaked, but the .bsp and .aas compiles will be more efficient if the map is sealed. hope you figure it out. pat AndyW wrote: Yaay, hail to the box! I think i cant help you with that. Id would remove the box and search for the error. Your curves are not sealed to the VOID, but i think this should not be a problem cause its a Box. Sorry Man! So I went ahead and removed the box and sealed the map up properly as Andy suggested, I also used the pause command at the end of the .bat file and found the problem. "11440error: tried parent" seems to be the error thats causing the script to not produce an .aas file, I found a thread on the openarena forums discussing this problem and it seems to have something to do with a faulty brush some where. So now I just have to go through and do some cleanup until I find the problem, big thanks to the both of you for all your help! Also would either of you happen to have any idea why I cant get the textures to the teleporter, spinny things under the weapons, and bounce pads to work, all three of them are made up of multiple image files so is that just some kind of limitation with quake 3? The thing I find odd about them is that when I was trying to fix the sky I got a few error messages in the console about it but with the other textures I get nothing so I'm not even sure where to start. |
Author: | AndyW [ 09-30-2015 12:49 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
For the Textures: Did you add them to the Shaderlist.txt?? |
Author: | Scorch_ [ 09-30-2015 01:01 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
AndyW wrote: For the Textures: Did you add them to the Shader.File?? Yea I've added the shader files to the right folder, maybe I need to edit them? When I was fixing the sky texture I had to edit the shader file to remove one of the layers other wise the map would always crash on startup sending me back to to the main menu with a bunch of errors but with these other textures (telelporter, spinny thing, bounce pad) I get no such errors and they appear as the default black and white checkerboard texture. |
Author: | AndyW [ 09-30-2015 01:19 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
Hmm... You have to add your custom shaders to the shaderlist.txt located in ***\scripts\shaderlist.txt http://de.ws.q3df.org/level_design/add_shader/ I just noticed that some of your shader-textures are in *.png format, i dont know if this could cause the problem. Some of the Shader Gurus over here might help you |
Author: | Scorch_ [ 09-30-2015 01:26 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
AndyW wrote: Hmm... You have to add your custom shaders to the shaderlist.txt located in ***\scripts\shaderlist.txt http://de.ws.q3df.org/level_design/add_shader/ I just noticed that some of your shader-textures are in *.png format, i dont know if this could cause the problem. Some of the Shader Gurus over here might help you The textures show up in radiant just fine both in the menus and in the preview window, I just can't get them to work in q3 is the problem. |
Author: | KittenIgnition [ 09-30-2015 04:46 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
Andy already pointed it out. Always use .tga in your shaders. Never .png. |
Author: | Scorch_ [ 09-30-2015 06:17 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
KittenIgnition wrote: Andy already pointed it out. Always use .tga in your shaders. Never .png. I think I misread what he said and thought he was talking about something to do with radiant so my bad on that, in any case I already tried converting the textures for the bounce pad to .tga and it didn't seem to fix the issue. Also for redundancy I just converted the spinny things and the teleporter texture to .tga and still ended up with the default checkerboard textures. |
Author: | AndyW [ 09-30-2015 06:42 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
Check your paths in Shader files. Shaders added to the SHADERLIST.TXT ??? Y or N ? |
Author: | Martinus [ 09-30-2015 06:50 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
Use / instead of \ in the texture paths and do not use uppercase letters. Also check the console for errors ingame, when you loaded your map. |
Author: | Scorch_ [ 09-30-2015 07:34 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
AndyW wrote: Check your paths in Shader files. Shaders added to the SHADERLIST.TXT ??? Y or N ? The shaders are added to the shaderlist.txt and the paths in the shader files are correct. |
Author: | KittenIgnition [ 09-30-2015 02:23 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
I hope you meant you replaced all instances of, ".png" in your shader files with, ".tga", rather than converting actual image files. Forward slashes and non-tga/jpg extensions in the shader file itself. Maybe you did that already, but you mentioned converting so I just want to make it absolutely clear. Did you post a DL link? I'm on my phone but when I get home I can settle this once and for all, provided I have the map. |
Author: | Scorch_ [ 10-01-2015 03:40 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
KittenIgnition wrote: I hope you meant you replaced all instances of, ".png" in your shader files with, ".tga", rather than converting actual image files. Forward slashes and non-tga/jpg extensions in the shader file itself. Maybe you did that already, but you mentioned converting so I just want to make it absolutely clear. Did you post a DL link? I'm on my phone but when I get home I can settle this once and for all, provided I have the map. Download Heres the full pk3 it should have all the shader scripts and textures. I did check within the shader files them self to make sure everything was correct and as far as I could tell it all checked out, as for the converting I was talking about converting .png/.jpg textures to .tga. |
Author: | KittenIgnition [ 10-01-2015 05:42 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
Well, on my phone again, but in SFX.shader one of the shader names ends with a /. I dunno if this actually causes issues, but I assume it does. It likely does. WARNING: R_FindImageFile could not find 'textures/skies/meth_clouds.tga' in shader 'textures/skies/meth_clouds4' Shader textures/skies/meth_clouds4 has a stage with no image WARNING: unknown general shader parameter 'novlcollapse' in 'textures/sfx/portal_opaque_ Novlcollapse makes shaders not work, delete that parm. Then there's a missing . Seems the other ones are also simply missing textures. |
Author: | Martinus [ 10-01-2015 05:53 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
Run the game, load your map, and CHECK THE CONSOLE. You will see yellow texts which tells you what and where are the errors. I don't think it's a good idea to overwriting the original shaders like "sfx.shader". Better rename it for surely work. |
Author: | Scorch_ [ 10-01-2015 09:55 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
KittenIgnition wrote: Well, on my phone again, but in SFX.shader one of the shader names ends with a /. I dunno if this actually causes issues, but I assume it does. It likely does. WARNING: R_FindImageFile could not find 'textures/skies/meth_clouds.tga' in shader 'textures/skies/meth_clouds4' Shader textures/skies/meth_clouds4 has a stage with no image WARNING: unknown general shader parameter 'novlcollapse' in 'textures/sfx/portal_opaque_ Novlcollapse makes shaders not work, delete that parm. Then there's a missing . Seems the other ones are also simply missing textures. The only place I could find the novlcollapse parm in the shader file was by the teleporter related stuff and removing it seemed to have no effect, there shouldn't be any missing textures as far as I know. Also I don't encounter the meth_cloud related errors when loading the map, does the sky texture work for you or is it just the default checkerboard one? Martinus wrote: Run the game, load your map, and CHECK THE CONSOLE. You will see yellow texts which tells you what and where are the errors. I don't think it's a good idea to overwriting the original shaders like "sfx.shader". Better rename it for surely work. The only error I see in the console when loading up the map is "WARNING: unknown general shader parameter 'novlcollapse' in 'models/players/sarge/band" |
Author: | Hipshot [ 10-01-2015 10:12 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
Rule of thumb: Test your levels in clean quake 3 folders, it's 2015, I'm sure ~500MB of space can be spared for a clean copy. Name shaders and folders after the level or yourself, for example like I do, hipshot_NNN1 or hipshot_NNN5 |
Author: | KittenIgnition [ 10-01-2015 11:49 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: scdm3 [alpha] by Scorch_ |
I never release maps so I have one bigass "kitteh.shader" which I copy necessary ones out of and put in another shader called mapname.shader(if I'm giving it to someone to test or mess around on), so in a way I follow that rule and when you're messing with someone else's game, definitely be as thorough as you can, and avoid as many conflicts as you can. The meth clouds texture is not in the pk3 that you linked, there is a bunch of novlcollapse in the sfx shader, and there is an error in the console which means the shader exists on the map somewhere. There were a few other errors that I can't test on my phone, but they are there and I can find em later for you. |
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