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Topic Starter Topic: How to deal with Easter-Eggs & copyrights ?

The Afflicted
The Afflicted
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 848
PostPosted: 02-22-2016 06:02 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Just want to know what you Guys think about that.
I want to place some small Easter-Eggs inspired by old Games & Movies.
May i do this? Or will i get "copyrighted right in the a**s" ?
I think sampling sounds for some seconds was in a "legal grey zone" for years, what about GFX?



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I'm the dude!
I'm the dude!
Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 02-22-2016 09:28 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ethically, I think it would depend on your intent. Is it a rip-off or an homage to the original? If you put in an 8-bit Mario in your level as a secret, I don't think anyone would think twice of it, but if you backported a whole bunch of Mario assets and turned your map into a Super Mario clone, it would be quite something else.

You could claim Fair Use. Ultimately, it wouldn't prevent you from getting sued.

Quote:
Okay, so what is fair use?

First and foremost, fair use is a defense, not a right. That means nothing is fair use until a judge says it is, and to get a judge to decide that will cost more than is in your bank account. Fair use is a factor test that examines what you are using it for, if you charge, how much of the original IP you are using, and a few other items that all add up together to the decision. So, despite what you read everywhere, IT IS NOT AUTOMATICALLY FAIR USE BECAUSE YOU DON’T CHARGE.


http://ryanmorrisonlaw.com/a-laymans-gu ... wn-system/


Ethical and legal claims on copyright are two totally different worlds and tend to make little practical sense. Lawyers would rather pull the trigger on every little thing and ask questions later.

As an example, last year I posted a 1 minute clip on YouTube of my cousin's bachelor party with Michael Jackson's Beat It playing in the background and I got a take-down notice (it was at a bar, music was playing in the background). YouTube offered me an option to appeal, so I appealed explaining that it was just background music, yet I lost the appeal with no way to challenge. They removed the video and places restrictions on my account. What pissed me off was that there was no human intervention in the whole process, and no way to challenge the claim. Shot fired, no questions asked.

Personally, if you just want to add an easter-egg, go for it. But make sure it's not something you can live without, if perchance you do piss off someone's lawyer you can still remove it without limiting your map.



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The Afflicted
The Afflicted
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: 02-23-2016 05:23 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thx obsidian! :up:



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Gibblet
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Joined: 19 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: 02-23-2016 03:44 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


To be clear, I'm not a lawyer (although i could ask one or two :))
It is absolutely legal to use samples of music to a certain time limit. I dont know the exact seconds though. The other thing is that youre work is not commercial, you are not earning any money out of it.

And the last point: What could it possibly be that you want to add that is a DIRECT copy of an old game or movie? There are mario maps for nearly every FPS shooter out there. They all had to recreate textures and models themselves because mario is clearly a 2D sidescroller. Nobody can claim rights to that. Movie easter-eggs are also not even a grey zone. What would happen to all the short snippets on youtube or on the internet in general? Its even the opposite, these short clips are really good advertising. In the past companies didnt realize that so they attacked people who clearly advertised for them. The music industry is another problem though. They didnt adjust to the internet as well as the gaming and movie industries. It took them years to understand that people dont want to buy CDs for a horrendous amount of money if they could just download that one song for only 99 cents. The music industry is still a little bit problematic because artists now can live without record labels. They just dont need them because the internet is doin their job.
The only possible problem would be if you really would use assets from an old game in your map but i highly doubt that if you are even worried about music and/or movie clips. If you are really concerned about this I can talk to a friend of mine but i highly doubt you will get into trouble for making easter-eggs. I cant back this up with wikipedia articles right now as Im only remembering some classes i took at the university (EU law btw, so not US).




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True Nightmare
True Nightmare
Joined: 14 Nov 2000
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PostPosted: 02-23-2016 07:08 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Dangel wrote:
To be clear, I'm not a lawyer (although i could ask one or two :))
It is absolutely legal to use samples of music to a certain time limit. I dont know the exact seconds though. The other thing is that youre work is not commercial, you are not earning any money out of it.


There are NO provisions in Copyright granting blanket allowance for limited clips or samples (the way you describe). EVERYTHING has to be licensed. So Apple, Google and Amazon et al are licensing that ability. Also, something not being used in a non-commercial capacity is NOT a guaranty no action will be taken - infringement is ostensibly about "exploitation" and/or "misappropriation"; money just makes it more likely for a suit or takedown to be issued.

Quote:
And the last point: What could it possibly be that you want to add that is a DIRECT copy of an old game or movie? There are mario maps for nearly every FPS shooter out there. They all had to recreate textures and models themselves because mario is clearly a 2D sidescroller. Nobody can claim rights to that. Movie easter-eggs are also not even a grey zone. What would happen to all the short snippets on youtube or on the internet in general? Its even the opposite, these short clips are really good advertising. In the past companies didnt realize that so they attacked people who clearly advertised for them. The music industry is another problem though. They didnt adjust to the internet as well as the gaming and movie industries. It took them years to understand that people dont want to buy CDs for a horrendous amount of money if they could just download that one song for only 99 cents. The music industry is still a little bit problematic because artists now can live without record labels. They just dont need them because the internet is doin their job.
The only possible problem would be if you really would use assets from an old game in your map but i highly doubt that if you are even worried about music and/or movie clips. If you are really concerned about this I can talk to a friend of mine but i highly doubt you will get into trouble for making easter-eggs. I cant back this up with wikipedia articles right now as Im only remembering some classes i took at the university (EU law btw, so not US).


You can't have been paying much attention in those classes! :p (does anyone?)

Two things. 1) you're conflating your feelings (along with other incorrect assumptions) about Copyright ('moral' argument) with the way the system as-it-stands works to protect manifest ideas (the 'technical' argument). All of which you are 'dangerously' interpreting. 2) something being "clearly a 2D sidescroller" doesn't negate the protections afforded the original simply because the 'expression' is transferring to a different medium. If it did we wouldn't come to know the term "FOXed" so well. So yes, Nintendo can indeed take issue with remakes in different (or not) mediums as the original expression was theirs.

Rather than continuing to address each of the incorrect points you've made in the above (there are a lot of them), it would be better to have you just research Copyright, Trademarks, Intellectual Property etc. and the way each responds to different concerns over the expression of ideas ("research" means read the laws and opinions, not Wikipedia).

If you intend to go into a creative field (pursue level design for example), it would genuinely serve you well to have a better understanding of the way Copyright works so you can protect yourself as much as rail at the man in the sky.



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Gibblet
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Joined: 19 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: 02-24-2016 03:33 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I think I should have added that i was not talking about legality. I was talking about the likelyness of getting sued. You are absolutely right that i added in assumptions and that I was interpreting. Limiting your creativity just because it could be ilegal in the slightest of ways is just not an option for me.
In the mario example i meant that nobody can claim rights to your textures and assets that you used in your map because you obviously made them yourself. Now if you would build a game in a game (so mario kart in need for speed or something ridiculous like that) it would be dangerous territory. But we are talking about easter-eggs in quake maps and not game overhauls.
So just to be clear again: It is highly HIGHLY unlikely to get sued for an hommage to an old game or movie. It is not perfectly legal, thats true.
Im sorry, my initial post was poorly written.




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True Nightmare
True Nightmare
Joined: 14 Nov 2000
Posts: 4216
PostPosted: 02-24-2016 07:25 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Getting sued *is* a legality and you can't talk about using others ideas without invoking Copyright = legalities. And talking of getting sued, in this context that would likely happen if the individual chose to ignore a take-down request, which is a more pressing and immediate concerns for modders (AFAIK, many projects have been FOX'ed through take-down, but no-one has been stupid enough to get themselves sued... yet).

As for Mario, you're missing the point, it wouldn't matter that you (re)made everything yourself, what would be of concern is the appropriating and exploiting of someone else's well defined intellectual property/material.



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