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Topic Starter Topic: Daveybird's WIP Map Thread

Gibblet
Gibblet
Joined: 27 Jan 2017
Posts: 19
PostPosted: 01-31-2017 07:26 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm working on a series of stages called "Frag Tour." The idea is to have a professional paintball-style stadium with Quake 3 rules. Good for team play.

Image

As you can see, it's in a High School-style stadium, with things like a yellow Jump pad (will add more later), and obstacles, like the cylinder thing and the triangular thing ( I think the paintball guys call it a "Dorito"), lots of stuff to hide in. Also, there's plenty of weapons, like machinegun ammo, a rocket launcher, a railgun, a lightning gun, a plasma gun, etc. Plus armor, health, and quad damage. Also, as an Easter Egg, I put a BFG in the underside of the main grandstands and a pack of BFG ammo in the underside of the secondary grandstands. I put the "Bot Do Not Enter" stuff around it. I sometimes think that the bots are using the BFG, but I keep mistaking Plasma Gun blasts for BFG blasts, lol!

Obviously, this is definitely a WIP. I need to add trees, some more scenery, more jump pads, make the grass bigger, etc. Once I get a good Frag Tour base, I'll be able to make some more, additional maps, each with their own gimmick.

I'm also gonna make a WIP Character Models thread, as well as threads for my completed maps and character models.




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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: 02-01-2017 03:44 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Looking forward. This looks very empty, you definitely should add more details to the map :) At least surround the grass with something (maybe complete the stadium building, add depth to the stadium building, not only few plates with grainy texture onto it, actually build the stadium as it really looks like). The playground needs more cover. I mean add more objects which players can hide behind. If someone makes Paintball modification for Quake 3, this map should be definitely included in maplist :)

And for real. Not bad. If you add surrouding building to enclose the skybox, bottom of the sky is not rendered, which results in Hall of Mirrors or shortly HOM effect - repeating and pulsing jagged edges in not rendered area. To prevent HOM effect be visible, you should ensure players (including spectators) won't be able to see the bottom of the skybox (unless you find some nice skybox with all 6 cube sides images). Or use a fog hull to actually prevent the HOM effect appear in your map (and without the need to enclose the map by surrounding, just use playerclip to prevent access to parts of map behind render distance). For your map, building a surrounding will be a better idea.

Also, don't use one-colored textures, or at least make these textures more realistic, not just one bland color all over the texture - it's a waste of space in PK3 file, space which could be used more efficiently combined with eye friendly graphics. Basic single color textures are not eye friendly. These could be used as light image for emmiting light from light fixtures (q3map_surfacelight), but shouldn't be used as display texture. I bet these shapes are made of some sort of mattrace (or mat), so try to shade your textures, add some wrinkles, make it look like more realistic. Do not use MS Paint (this editor does not produce correct format of JPEG files, does not provide quality settings, basically saves JPEG files at the lowest quality possible, which is unwanted). Get yourself a copy of more advanced graphics editor (Photoshop, or Paintshop Pro, if you want something freeware, give GIMP a try). That software should be able to work with image layers (with blending options, additionally some effects) and should be able to save not only JPEG files with quality and format settings - I recommend saving Baseline Standard JPEG with maximum quality: 90-100% quality - it will save disk usage even at 100% - there will always be some quality loss, but almost unrecognisable with maximum quality settings - it should be also able to save GIF (also animated), PNG files, but most important: TGA files - these are uncompressed 32bit graphic files in TarGA format (allow for alpha channel - transparency for your texture - and works with original Quake 3 engine, PNG does not work in original Q3 engine, it works in IOquake3, but not everyone use IOquake3, so make sure your map will be playable with standard engine). For Quake Live maps, I recommend use PNG images instead of TGA, as Quake Live has better support for PNG images with transparency and you can view textures by pretty much almost every graphics viewer, TGA is not much supported format by image viewers, but is required to play Quake 3 maps with textures containing transparency.

To this map: I'm really looking forward. I can't tell from this screenshot nothing more, just use your imagination :) For a first map, not so bad :)



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Gibblet
Gibblet
Joined: 27 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: 02-01-2017 09:25 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


CZghost wrote:
Looking forward. This looks very empty, you definitely should add more details to the map :) At least surround the grass with something (maybe complete the stadium building, add depth to the stadium building, not only few plates with grainy texture onto it, actually build the stadium as it really looks like). The playground needs more cover. I mean add more objects which players can hide behind. If someone makes Paintball modification for Quake 3, this map should be definitely included in maplist :)

And for real. Not bad. If you add surrouding building to enclose the skybox, bottom of the sky is not rendered, which results in Hall of Mirrors or shortly HOM effect - repeating and pulsing jagged edges in not rendered area. To prevent HOM effect be visible, you should ensure players (including spectators) won't be able to see the bottom of the skybox (unless you find some nice skybox with all 6 cube sides images). Or use a fog hull to actually prevent the HOM effect appear in your map (and without the need to enclose the map by surrounding, just use playerclip to prevent access to parts of map behind render distance). For your map, building a surrounding will be a better idea.

Also, don't use one-colored textures, or at least make these textures more realistic, not just one bland color all over the texture - it's a waste of space in PK3 file, space which could be used more efficiently combined with eye friendly graphics. Basic single color textures are not eye friendly. These could be used as light image for emmiting light from light fixtures (q3map_surfacelight), but shouldn't be used as display texture. I bet these shapes are made of some sort of mattrace (or mat), so try to shade your textures, add some wrinkles, make it look like more realistic. Do not use MS Paint (this editor does not produce correct format of JPEG files, does not provide quality settings, basically saves JPEG files at the lowest quality possible, which is unwanted). Get yourself a copy of more advanced graphics editor (Photoshop, or Paintshop Pro, if you want something freeware, give GIMP a try). That software should be able to work with image layers (with blending options, additionally some effects) and should be able to save not only JPEG files with quality and format settings - I recommend saving Baseline Standard JPEG with maximum quality: 90-100% quality - it will save disk usage even at 100% - there will always be some quality loss, but almost unrecognisable with maximum quality settings - it should be also able to save GIF (also animated), PNG files, but most important: TGA files - these are uncompressed 32bit graphic files in TarGA format (allow for alpha channel - transparency for your texture - and works with original Quake 3 engine, PNG does not work in original Q3 engine, it works in IOquake3, but not everyone use IOquake3, so make sure your map will be playable with standard engine). For Quake Live maps, I recommend use PNG images instead of TGA, as Quake Live has better support for PNG images with transparency and you can view textures by pretty much almost every graphics viewer, TGA is not much supported format by image viewers, but is required to play Quake 3 maps with textures containing transparency.

To this map: I'm really looking forward. I can't tell from this screenshot nothing more, just use your imagination :) For a first map, not so bad :)


Thanks for the info! I'm actually working on it right now! I'm in the process of adding trees and a city skyline to the background. Also, a window for the press box! I do want my first stadium to be open-ended, though. I've got CorelDraw/Photo-Paint 11 and Adobe Photoshop CS2. I'm starting to work on the better textures!




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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 1614
PostPosted: 02-01-2017 10:11 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Well, actually these maps look better if you have some depth and better integrated environment. So you make city skybox and make some buildings surrounding to feel more authentic. At least. The stadium tribunes need more depth, to actually look like tribunes, not grainy sloped walls. If you want even more realistic look, then try to add a “portal skybox” (q3map2 entity _skybox), which will be a scaled down model of further surrounding (in addition to city landscape image skybox). But that's as a future suggestion. First map may have first an idea and good concept: item balance, some cover, hidious places, which you have moreless done :)



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Gibblet
Gibblet
Joined: 27 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: 02-01-2017 11:28 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm coming along so far! I'm not done yet, I'll add some more detail to the bleachers. But in the meantime, I adjusted a few things:

Image

I made a city skyline in the background, some trees (look kinda crappy because they have my sky texture in the background), and a texture for the press box. I also added some more obstacles to hide behind.




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Gibblet
Gibblet
Joined: 27 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: 02-01-2017 09:08 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I've done some more updating for Round One of the RSR Frag Tour.

The overall stadium looks better:
Image

Here's what the matches look like from the stands:
Image

Here's a colorful jump pad (might make the texture HD later):
Image

There are a lot more places to run and hide now. Here's a Dorito (I'm eating Doritos as II'm typing this, lol!)
Image

Yeah, I'm almost done with Round One. Round 2 will be an All-Shotgun slugfest!




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The Afflicted
The Afflicted
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 848
PostPosted: 02-02-2017 08:39 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The idea of a paintball-area is nice, i think youre new to modding and chose IDTech3 cause its well documented.
To be honest -the screenshots causing a sort of Eye-cancer to me, but thats NOT meant that bad!
You should spend more time into detailing, brush&texture-sided.
And test it as much as you can for feedback, bots are idiots!
If you have any questions just post them here! ;)



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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: 02-02-2017 09:44 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Correct, Andy :) Of course, details are highly important in level editing :) The textures need more depth and be less harsh.

These textures can be used as your mat replacement for cube shapes:
Image Image

Right-click them and select „Save image as...“ if you want to use them. Created with Photoshop CS5. Learn how to use editors like GIMP or Photoshop to make these simple textures :)



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The Afflicted
The Afflicted
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: 02-02-2017 11:23 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


CZghost wrote:
Correct, Andy :) Of course, details are highly important in level editing :)

Nah, look at the first mario-bros, galaga and stuff... You need a good gameplay, thats the most important thing to every game imho!
If gameplay sucks you will not play it!
Mario-Land an Tetris still rock caused by the timeless "design", older versions are just graphic-ports with added features.
Details are just eye candy and fun to do...
But why made it look like 1998 when its 2017?

EDIT: I know that the obsacles in that parks look like that



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Gibblet
Gibblet
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PostPosted: 02-02-2017 01:31 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yeah, thanks for the textures! I'll still use my own text (RSR, Jump!!, etc) on them, and change their hue. It's still in its early stages, but I might release a public beta for you guys to try out.




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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 1614
PostPosted: 02-02-2017 01:59 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Very early releases are often called Alpha releases (to distinguish between Beta releases, which only require some minor tweaks, but Alpha releases are mainly under heavy development and require pretty much more attention to construction and features than Beta, which rely on visuals and detailing more). But I'd be glad to try it out :) Unfortunately, I am unable to load it up right now. I am in Prague and do not have access to my desktop computer to actually launch Quake 3 and put it up there. I'll gain that access by the end of February the nearest possible as I have to correct my failed exams (and finish one exam still unfinished)... So maybe I'll be able to try out second release (or third) as I get home :(



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Gibblet
Gibblet
Joined: 27 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: 02-02-2017 04:02 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


CZghost wrote:
Very early releases are often called Alpha releases (to distinguish between Beta releases, which only require some minor tweaks, but Alpha releases are mainly under heavy development and require pretty much more attention to construction and features than Beta, which rely on visuals and detailing more). But I'd be glad to try it out :) Unfortunately, I am unable to load it up right now. I am in Prague and do not have access to my desktop computer to actually launch Quake 3 and put it up there. I'll gain that access by the end of February the nearest possible as I have to correct my failed exams (and finish one exam still unfinished)... So maybe I'll be able to try out second release (or third) as I get home :(


Yeah, most people have called my early stuff "alpha." It's fun to play on!




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Gibblet
Gibblet
Joined: 27 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: 02-02-2017 09:47 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Here's some updated textures. Yeah, I stuck with my logos on the obstacles, but used your cloth textures as the base:

The blue side's stuff:

Image

The red side's stuff:

Image

That jump pad:

Image

There is slight change, but they look pretty similar. But they look quite a bit less cartoony, and more believable.

I do know how to draw a bit. I've been making 3D models for posing, 3D cars, 2D art, etc for awhile now, plus hand drawing and modeling clay action figures. It's just that I'm trying to get used to the Quake 3 map/character editing process, method, and format, and some of this stuff is for test purposes. In about a couple of years, if I stay with this game, I'll probably make a real bada$$ stage and/or character model. Part of the reason I'm not always that good is because I'm always juggling between a bazillion games that I mod, the only problem is, all of them take a long time to make good mods for. Here is a list of most of the games I mod:

Quake 3 Arena
Super Smash Bros Wii U and Brawl
NASCAR Heat
rFactor
Dirt Track Racing 2
Madden NFL 08
Game Maker games
SoulCalibur V
My own tabletop games

So as you can see, it's hard for me to cram a bunch of good stuff in. But I think this is halfway decent, my first map consisting mostly of textures I made. But yeah, I just gotta get used to the Quake 3 modding format.

Thanks once again for your support!




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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: 02-03-2017 04:32 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


At least it does not hurt my eyes :) The textures were designed to cubes, but with slight change it could be made tileable all across different shapes. Cool :)



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I'm the dude!
I'm the dude!
Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 02-03-2017 10:18 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I think you should use decals for the text.



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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
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PostPosted: 02-04-2017 02:57 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
I think you should use decals for the text.

I know you're right :) But. It's his first map ever :) Let him play around, let him be creative :) At least it has some idea, let him develop his idea :) Did you see my first map published (not the first in lvlworld, but the actually first in Worldspawn, Sudden Death)? :D I was 15 and played around with GtkRadiant :D Then I told myself “Hey, it's good, let's put it online” :D Oh, how naive decision :D But I am happy I did it, and even re-released the map on my websites :) I plan making a redux of it (as a second DM map in row of chronological set) :D The redux then may be converted for Quake Live :) However, the original doesn't meet the QL standards (well, even not Q3 standards, made primarily for fun, as a testing and pretty much playing around, fiddling with editor before some serious work) :D So Quake Live version will be made only from redux, not the outdated and ugly original :D



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Gibblet
Gibblet
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PostPosted: 02-04-2017 06:58 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
I think you should use decals for the text.


Decals? If that means that the logos can only appear on the front and the back of the obstacles, that will be good. Please tell me more!




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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
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PostPosted: 02-05-2017 06:13 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Decals are basically very thin brushes with all but one side invisible in game. The only one side is textured by your decal texture, which contains alpha channel (so the texture must be in TGA format, JPG textures basically do not support alpha channel). But having only that texture doesn't work properly. The texture must have pretty much exactly the same properties like the nodraw texture (except it has to be drawn), so you need to create a shader for it. You may simply copy the textures/common/nodraw shader script from common.shader and place it in yourtextures.shader and edit it to display your texture. So you delete the surfaceparm nodraw line and add one stage (after the surfaceparm directives) and type in the texture path: textures/yourtextures/texturename (with the .tga extension) and the shader will need to rename to textures/yourtextures/texturename (without the extension). That way your decal will work. If you want to place it directly at the wall (which may cause overlapping texture and therefore z-fighting flickering error), you may add surfaceparm polygonoffset, which draws the texture slightly off the coordinates, but not too much to achieve the illusion the decal is actually part of the surface on which the decal is placed. You may want to check out Shader Manual on obsidian's RobotRenegade websites. It's the most recent Shader Manual, in active development and most up to date with actual q3map2 compiler, so you will find usefull tricks for the latest version of q3map2 in your shader scripts. It basically describes how to build your own shaders, which is very usefull in future level design, so you may want to actually read it and probably save it in your favourites links to easier access in future.



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Gibblet
Gibblet
Joined: 27 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: 02-09-2017 05:02 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Image

Moving right along! I figured out how to add decals and separate face textures! I just Ctrl-Shift-Left Clicked faces, and assigned textures to them, plus I made the RSR Frag Tour logo appear only on one side, and threw in a standup sprite crowd! Still, thanks for the critique and pointers, I want this to be a good first map! The obstacles look a lot better solid, with just a logo decal on the front and maybe the back, like I originally intended.




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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
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PostPosted: 02-10-2017 06:01 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The people standing ovations would be better actually as 3D models (not 2D sprites correctly visible only from a certain spot in the map). These can be included as misc_model entities (with desired model file linked with model keyword and path to the filename (including extension) as its value - like this: key:model, value:models/mapobjects/crowd/audience.ase) - the model filename (and extension) can be ASE, MD3, OBJ, LWO - for full list of supported model filetypes go to manual (if it's there). I'm using MD3 and ASE models. As a cherry on top of a cake - these model files don't need to be included in the PK3, they're already part of your map as compiler takes the model data, translates it to geometry data, and bakes it in your BSP map.

But your model needs clipping (if it may be a large solid object) - that clipping should be simplified to the actual model geometry. There are two types of clipping: weapon clipping (which blocks eighter player movement and weapon fireshots and missiles which lets them explode on the clip surface) and player clipping (which blocks only player movement, weapon fireshots and missiles are let fly through). Clipping is made of brushes with ALL sides textured with the invisible clipping texture (common/clip for player clips and common/weaponclip or common/weapclip for weapon clips /not sure if it's full pronounced or shortened/). Why invisible? Because you don't want to show where the clipping is, but actually only want your model to be at least somewhere nearby clipped to not make it look silly when player walks through a solid object. Basically both of these clippings are used for a single model. Weapon clipping is for as closest clip geometry to the model geometry and player clipping is then a rough simplified boundary to smoothout player movement around the model. Alternative is to let the compiler create clipping for both player movement and weapon fireshots and missiles (which then only requires player clip around the model mesh to smoothout the player movement a little bit) - but this is done with some magic switch in compile options or somewhere I don't know where, it's somewhat a mystery for me how to let compiler create clipping automatically. Sock did that for his Focal Point map (the big windows are actually models with auto.clipping feature), so ask him how to make model be auto-clipped.



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The hell good boy
The hell good boy
Joined: 22 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: 02-10-2017 06:32 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Also, for the tribune. Try to make it look more like stairs, not ramp. Try to get inspiration from this image:
Image

I don't want you to do exact copy of the tribune above, but only give you an idea on how it should look like. Take a note on the stairs. The chairs are not single rows, but it's split in three sections to allow people get in multiple rows to sides but also in center. You do not need to model the chairs, just make it look more like stairs than a ramp as it should look like. I've not see any tribune that was actually a ramp, all were stairy to allow for easy movement and allow the crowd to see what happens on the ground...



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Gibblet
Gibblet
Joined: 27 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: 02-10-2017 05:57 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


CZghost wrote:
Also, for the tribune. Try to make it look more like stairs, not ramp. Try to get inspiration from this image:
Image

I don't want you to do exact copy of the tribune above, but only give you an idea on how it should look like. Take a note on the stairs. The chairs are not single rows, but it's split in three sections to allow people get in multiple rows to sides but also in center. You do not need to model the chairs, just make it look more like stairs than a ramp as it should look like. I've not see any tribune that was actually a ramp, all were stairy to allow for easy movement and allow the crowd to see what happens on the ground...


Oh, I see. I'm adding some steps to the stands now, and will probably get to 3D crowd members in some later maps.

This map was more about getting the basic process of Q3 mapping down more than anything, and I decided to use rudimentary models as the base. It's still pretty cool that I'm already using imported models in my first map anyways!

I used to hate critique back in the day, but I've gotten used to it over time. I'm trying to listen to what you guys have to say, because I want my maps to look more realistic.

And also, I'm not clipping the stands in this specific stage, because of the BFG Easter Egg. But I did botclip it, so that only the users can get the BFG and ammo on the other side, and they have to get curious and figure it out on their own that you can walk through the grandstand, lol! :olo: :olo: :olo: :olo:

Once again, thanks! And thanks to your help, looking at the top of this thread, to the bottom so far, looks like an episode of "Pimp My Quake 3 Map Out!" :olo: :olo: :olo: :olo:




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