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Topic: [SOF2] MP_ZIBA Sky and Compile issues -and additional issues

KENNITHH
Gibblet

Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 17

Posted: 02-14-2017 05:17 PM

Recently I've continued working on my old Ziba map (remake from Battlefield 3) for Soldier of Fortune II - Double Helix which I'd really love to finish as it's been in development for over 3 years now.

Pictures of my compile: http://imgur.com/a/QG0UL
Original map : http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/bat ... 0930131942

Now my main issue is light. Both sun light as spotlights ( the ones on the ceiling as the ones outside against the walls are fake 2d lights).
Sometimes the sun shadows look so nice,just like I want them but on other places they are just utter crap like they look like stairs. Inside it's even worse as whatever I do, the spotlights look blocky.

Over the years I've read countless websites and searched compile options of other people. Mainly Hipshot, AEon, Obsidion, Cityy, AndyW, DaEngineer and Lunaran. And I did learn some of it.

Now, I'm going for a pretty bright sunlight with the color thats going on about now but with detailed but blurred out shadows. But as I said before, its still pretty blocky and some weird zrtifacts on walls can be seen like at the upper floor outside against the wall.

I hope some of you masters can help me finetune this to perfection for my map, as I'd really apreciate it !

Here's what I have assembled so far of a shader and compile options.
I also tried it with a global lightmapscale between 0.25 and 0.75 but it's still not that great eventhough this might be one very important step to make it all look nice.

Any hints or tips are welcome !

Compile option:
-------------------------------------
BSP: -meta -patchmeta -samplesize 16 -rename -v
VIS: -vis -v -saveprt
LIGHT: -light -gamma 1.5 -compensate 1 -dirty -dirtscale 1 -dirtdepth 16 -fast -patchshadows -shade -v -bounce 100 -samples 6 -sky 5

lun3dm5's skybox shader and textures (I'd like to make this with way less suns though but it looks pretty damn good):
-------------------------------------
textures/ziba/ziba2
{
qer_editorimage textures/tools/editor_images/qer_sky
surfaceparm nolightmap
surfaceparm noimpact
surfaceparm nomarks
surfaceparm sky
skyparms textures/ziba/sky2/ziba 720 -

q3map_sunExt 1.00 0.90 0.80 180.0 17.123 48.822 0 16 // the big yellow one

q3map_sunExt 0.7329 0.9208 1.0 10.6513 89.613 -66.69 2 16 // underlights
q3map_sunExt 0.5994 0.8315 1.0 10.8072 258.36 -71.28 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.5990 0.8390 1.0 10.4978 327.14 -72.79 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8041 0.9418 1.0 11.0879 33.591 -70.25 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7405 0.9088 1.0 10.7015 197.01 -68.93 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7783 0.9246 1.0 10.9546 142.06 -66.79 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7451 0.9228 1.0 20.8505 127.32 -86.86 2 16

q3map_sunExt 0.7415 0.9044 1.0 1.2333 173.79 -18.75 2 16 // the rest of the blue stuff
q3map_sunExt 0.8389 0.9373 1.0 6.6010 175.55 23.015 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7443 0.8936 1.0 1.8799 243.68 -1.394 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.2762 0.6545 1.0 1.4207 221.83 35.078 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7347 0.9285 1.0 0.7111 217.39 -35.32 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.6873 0.8762 1.0 4.2276 105.49 2.9141 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8551 0.9596 1.0 1.5355 129.53 -32.12 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.6645 0.8419 1.0 5.1380 129.71 38.400 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8921 0.9633 1.0 2.4988 355.55 -23.01 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.6714 0.8729 1.0 9.9313 353.79 18.759 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7389 0.8900 1.0 3.5149 63.682 1.3945 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7839 0.9380 1.0 1.0089 41.830 -35.07 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.4945 0.7755 1.0 9.5803 37.399 35.329 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7474 0.9022 1.0 2.2217 285.49 -2.914 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.6452 0.8375 1.0 6.3072 309.53 32.128 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7980 0.9438 1.0 1.1175 309.71 -38.40 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.4813 0.7461 1.0 4.1235 78.366 71.285 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.6419 0.8251 1.0 4.6156 269.61 66.695 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7008 0.8735 1.0 2.6714 206.35 0.5979 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.6039 0.8304 1.0 2.1635 142.92 3.0233 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7397 0.8970 1.0 0.9118 171.14 -56.08 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8447 0.9514 1.0 1.9548 85.863 -29.38 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7095 0.8839 1.0 0.7305 358.63 -60.33 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.6785 0.8827 1.0 0.8571 263.22 -33.99 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.6395 0.8322 1.0 4.2932 265.86 29.387 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.3589 0.6863 1.0 1.5625 178.63 60.330 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.4516 0.7379 1.0 3.8085 83.228 33.998 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7294 0.8934 1.0 5.0831 26.355 -0.597 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.6584 0.8480 1.0 9.9217 351.14 56.083 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7483 0.9023 1.0 2.9484 322.92 -3.023 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8120 0.9298 1.0 2.8463 337.34 -12.77 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8911 0.9538 1.0 2.4733 317.59 -19.49 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7197 0.8773 1.0 6.4394 317.26 13.319 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7576 0.9023 1.0 2.6524 305.62 -3.137 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8126 0.9329 1.0 6.0419 336.79 7.3258 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.4438 0.7333 1.0 5.8467 327.40 46.881 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.4716 0.7394 1.0 4.6595 322.06 66.796 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.4634 0.7380 1.0 7.3385 17.011 68.933 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.5547 0.8127 1.0 9.9246 352.72 38.834 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8641 0.9603 1.0 9.8788 11.743 8.7114 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.6146 0.8392 1.0 9.9495 30.920 16.084 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8098 0.9260 1.0 3.1106 32.759 -16.68 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7695 0.9092 1.0 4.2623 43.610 0.3438 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8011 0.9237 1.0 3.5108 12.751 -11.37 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.4877 0.7529 1.0 4.2342 94.591 19.960 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.4744 0.7463 1.0 5.6085 73.250 19.172 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.5082 0.7608 1.0 4.3806 82.010 51.256 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.4573 0.7575 1.0 5.9619 62.266 36.831 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.3919 0.6978 1.0 2.8316 103.99 38.348 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.4463 0.7303 1.0 2.1759 150.12 52.726 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.6964 0.8603 1.0 5.5020 147.14 72.797 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.2304 0.6261 1.0 1.2750 204.23 50.626 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.2761 0.6490 1.0 1.1326 213.59 70.256 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.3160 0.6713 1.0 1.9584 176.73 43.088 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.3007 0.6602 1.0 2.1553 246.24 33.984 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.5368 0.7670 1.0 3.1211 266.92 46.648 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7343 0.8851 1.0 4.4957 275.63 14.647 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.5941 0.8030 1.0 4.6915 285.70 32.546 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7972 0.9108 1.0 5.1333 254.81 15.417 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7461 0.9177 1.0 0.7518 253.25 -19.17 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.6744 0.8647 1.0 0.7637 274.59 -19.96 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.6557 0.8529 1.0 0.7275 262.01 -51.25 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.6262 0.8629 1.0 0.6131 283.99 -38.34 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7284 0.8994 1.0 0.9087 242.26 -36.83 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7288 0.9041 1.0 0.7844 330.12 -52.72 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7232 0.8937 1.0 0.7624 24.233 -50.62 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8388 0.9434 1.0 1.4656 356.73 -43.08 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8740 0.9648 1.0 1.4211 105.70 -32.54 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8685 0.9591 1.0 1.4714 86.920 -46.64 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7767 0.9126 1.0 3.1975 74.818 -15.41 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8519 0.9610 1.0 1.3755 66.249 -33.98 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7512 0.9027 1.0 3.0526 95.635 -14.64 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7048 0.9048 1.0 0.5976 197.12 -48.82 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8587 0.9561 1.0 1.6206 147.40 -46.88 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8380 0.9489 1.0 1.4543 172.72 -38.83 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7567 0.8964 1.0 4.3690 157.34 12.777 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7238 0.8912 1.0 1.9681 156.79 -7.325 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.6820 0.8775 1.0 4.0164 125.62 3.1373 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7759 0.9199 1.0 1.5245 137.26 -13.31 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7481 0.8932 1.0 4.8007 137.59 19.499 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.6295 0.8308 1.0 4.9848 192.75 11.374 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8258 0.9361 1.0 5.9075 212.75 16.685 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7122 0.8898 1.0 1.4129 210.92 -16.08 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7125 0.8748 1.0 2.8112 223.61 -0.343 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7066 0.8725 1.0 2.0549 191.74 -8.711 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.5283 0.7968 1.0 7.0345 332.96 27.179 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7527 0.8984 1.0 3.7793 354.66 -2.128 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.6259 0.8739 1.0 9.9599 13.894 28.792 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7860 0.9124 1.0 9.8122 51.895 18.816 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.4473 0.7320 1.0 7.5309 48.643 54.730 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7125 0.8651 1.0 6.5596 115.43 57.076 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.6884 0.8602 1.0 5.9424 307.32 86.861 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.2795 0.6521 1.0 1.4047 236.95 53.050 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.5850 0.8002 1.0 4.9306 297.09 50.914 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7501 0.8974 1.0 6.1790 296.51 14.917 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7474 0.8959 1.0 2.3860 264.57 -2.306 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7872 0.9308 1.0 1.0186 296.12 -21.08 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.5515 0.8333 1.0 0.3982 295.43 -57.07 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8563 0.9499 1.0 1.4454 334.58 -32.80 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8497 0.9501 1.0 1.6724 17.258 -31.12 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8090 0.9414 1.0 1.1589 56.953 -53.05 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7745 0.9149 1.0 2.4389 53.859 -17.13 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7515 0.8940 1.0 4.1481 84.578 2.3060 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7885 0.9361 1.0 0.9493 228.64 -54.73 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8200 0.9431 1.0 1.1340 117.09 -50.91 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7481 0.8897 1.0 5.5626 154.58 32.801 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8458 0.9499 1.0 1.4160 152.96 -27.17 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.8022 0.9261 1.0 1.9189 116.51 -14.91 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.5242 0.7729 1.0 4.3637 116.12 21.080 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7076 0.8732 1.0 2.6345 174.66 2.1282 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.3855 0.7023 1.0 2.6832 197.25 31.121 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.4631 0.7378 1.0 3.8573 233.85 17.131 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7625 0.9123 1.0 1.4190 231.89 -18.81 2 16
q3map_sunExt 0.7805 0.9345 1.0 1.1819 193.89 -28.79 2 16
q3map_lightmapFilterRadius 0 8
}

Other handy websites I found:
https://victorkarp.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... ox-shader/
http://web.archive.org/web/200504122143 ... 27331.html

Last edited by KENNITHH on 03-01-2017 01:33 PM, edited 2 times in total.

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DaEngineer
Veteran

Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 194

Posted: 02-14-2017 06:27 PM

You are using dozens of q3map_sunExt lines? What is this good for? This looks really horribly difficult to tweak. I've always only used it one time per sky shader for the direct sunlight and created my ambient sky light with q3map_skylight. You can change the skylight color by using q3map_lightimage with a uniformly colored texture. Also, -samplesize 16 is the default size and does nothing. Try -8 and also write it in the LIGHT phase as well. You have to use it in the BSP and LIGHT phase to make it work. For testing purposes I'd add -fastbounce to the light stage. This will save you time until you have found the settings you like. Unfortunately you can't really do anything against the varying lightmap resolution across different surfaces. While you can use external lightmaps that are not written into the BSP to fix this, you'll lose the overbrighting which can make your lighting look flat. At least this was a problem 5 years ago when I used it for Shibam, maybe someone found a fix for it in the meantime.

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KENNITHH
Gibblet

Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 17

Posted: 02-15-2017 04:16 AM

The sky shader is 99% from AndyW and Lunarans lun3dm5 map. I tested some sky shaders after mine was kinda plain and boring and this ones color looked pretty neat so I stayed with it for now until I manage to get the same kind of light color with only 1 sun.

So I tested the things you suggested and the shadows do look better already, I thank you for that but Im not happy yet with the color and the inside.

Also for my final build Im thinking of removing -fast as it seems to give some nasty artifacts aswell ( saw a comparison of with and without fast some days ago, Ill post it here once I find it again )

About the external lightmap Ive tried it countless times , I get the tga files but the lightmap doesnt seem to match the map. Probably because of some bad shaders I think?

One last thing, Im using q3map_lightmapsamplesize on the big main textures of my map which looks very nice but Ive got a feeling it decreases my FPS. Can anyone confirm this does that?

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sst13
Mercenary

Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Posts: 212

Posted: 02-15-2017 06:49 AM

Try to add "-filter" to your light stage compile line. This will filter (anti alias) your lightmaps and takes "no" additional compile time.

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KENNITHH
Gibblet

Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 17

Posted: 02-15-2017 07:24 AM

sst13 wrote:
Try to add "-filter" to your light stage compile line. This will filter (anti alias) your lightmaps and takes "no" additional compile time.

So I should use it in combination with -samples and ignore what Q3Map2 Wikibooks says?

Quote:
Applies a gaussian blur to lightmaps, smoothing out shadows. Sounds good in theory, but -filter doesn't play nice with a lot of the more interesting effects... don't use it. Use -samples instead.

I'm pretty happy with it now but still needs minor tweaking, thanks !

Current Compile and Sky Shader
http://imgur.com/a/wZrDC

BSP: -meta -patchmeta -samplesize 8 -rename -v
VIS: -vis -v -saveprt
LIGHT: -light -gamma 1.5 -compensate 1 -dirty -dirtscale 1 -dirtdepth 16 -fast -filter -patchshadows -shade -v -bounce 100 -samples 6 -samplesize 8 -sky 5 (-fastbounce)

Between the brackets is for test compile

Worldspawn
"_lightmapscale" "0.75"

textures/ziba/ziba2
{
q3map_lightimage textures/ziba/sky2/color
qer_editorimage textures/tools/editor_images/qer_sky
q3map_globaltexture
q3map_sunExt 0.75 0.85 1.0 180 160 45 2 16
q3map_lightmapFilterRadius 0 8
q3map_skyLight 164 6
skyparms textures/ziba/sky2/ziba 720 -
surfaceparm nodlight
surfaceparm noimpact
surfaceparm nolightmap
surfaceparm sky
}

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DaEngineer
Veteran

Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 194

Posted: 02-15-2017 10:21 AM

KENNITHH wrote:
So I should use it in combination with -samples and ignore what Q3Map2 Wikibooks says?

Try it out, there's nothing to lose. I'm currently working on a map and use -samples 3 but I always only used -filter before. In the tests I did in the past -filter looked slightly better than -samples, although the q3map2 manual says otherwise. I don't know if using both at the same time is useful.

Sometimes lowering the lightmap resolution helps, because you get fewer artifacts at the cost of sharpness. I wouldn't use -fast for your final compile. If you are getting artifacts without -fast, this is probably a problem with your lightmap resolution. Too much light information is lost with -fast for my taste. -fastbounce is not so much of a problem. You can also try to use -bouncescale to increase the intensity of bounced light.

I like to increase -gamma slightly (around 1.2), push the dark areas further up with -bouncescale and compensate for it with -dirty (just as you do). I don't use -compensate because in the tests I did it made my lightmaps look flat.

Regarding external lightmaps: yes, big lightmap data decreases performance. This is true for lightmapscale as well.

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KENNITHH
Gibblet

Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 17

Posted: 02-15-2017 03:40 PM

Ok so I tweaked the settings a bit more and I must say I'm very pleased with the result. More suggestions about stuff is always welcome as I might tweak the light again at the final compile.

Talking about the final compile, I found the image again someone posted about -fast in the Light stage. I might consider removing it in the final as the light compile is pretty fast anyway.

Also I read somewhere that the -fast also includes -fastbounce, no idea if hes right or wrong:
quote by Rgoer
Quote:
Don't bother with -fastbounce, -fast is all you need (-fast turns on "fast" mode for everything in the lighting phase, you don't have to turn on the individual "fast" modes for the separate lighting calculations of the lightgrid or radiosity in addition to the general -fast switch).

Current and maybe final settings and screenshots:

http://imgur.com/a/0Erp7

textures/ziba/ziba2
{
q3map_lightimage textures/ziba/sky2/color
qer_editorimage textures/tools/editor_images/qer_sky
q3map_globaltexture
q3map_sunExt 1 1 1 200 18 45 2 16
q3map_lightmapFilterRadius 0 8
q3map_skyLight 180 6
skyparms textures/ziba/sky2/ziba 720 -
surfaceparm nodlight
surfaceparm noimpact
surfaceparm nolightmap
surfaceparm sky
}

Worldspawn
"ambient" "12"
"_color" "0.60 0.75 1"
"_lightmapscale" "0.75"

-meta -patchmeta -samplesize 8 -rename -v
-vis -v -saveprt
-light (-fast) -shade -patchshadows -dark -dirty -dirtscale 1 -dirtdepth 16 -samples 3 -samplesize 8 -filter -gamma 1.6 -bounce 100 (-fastbounce) -sky 5 -v

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DaEngineer
Veteran

Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 194

Posted: 02-15-2017 04:12 PM

The picture with the -fast comparison was uploaded by me some years ago, I think here and in another mapping forum. -fast enables fast lighting for the first light stage and the bounce lighting, that's right. I prefer not to use -fast but -fastbounce for my compiles, even for WIP ones. This way the first lighting pass has high accuracy and does not lose information but the bounce lighting still compiles fast and accurately enough. I feel getting the first lighting stage before the bouncing is crucial for nice lighting, so I don't use -fast at all. It would give me a false impression how the final lighting looks and I'd have to decrease the intensity of my lights for a final compile. The small amount of time that's added to the compile process for not using -fast is rather insignificant in the quad core era, at least for my taste.

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CZghost
The hell good boy

Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 1622

Posted: 02-16-2017 02:02 AM

Hey, it looks amazing! Is it actually just a visual concept only for testing? Or it will be made into playable map? Because that looks really outstanding...

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KENNITHH
Gibblet

Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 17

Posted: 02-16-2017 07:15 AM

I must say that without -fast and -fastbounce doesnt make that much of a difference, until you get closer and actually notice the difference, so yeah I like it, thanks for that !

And thanks for the compliment CZghost and yeah it will definitely be a playable map. Atm on the most intense spot I have about 210 FPS on a titan eventhough it still needs a bit more furniture and maybe some brushes reworked as I seem to have some light leaks which I can't seem to fix either :/
But as I said before this map has been in development for over 3 years now but not continuesly and I really want it to be as best as I can get it as I've released some other maps in the past where I think off now like why the hell did I do that

Just so you know I release all the sources of my map as I love it when other developers also release their source maps so you can learn from their stuff. So if you're interested in re-releasing it for Q3 or something , the map will be available ^^

But first I gotta fix this light leaking , maybe some light spots aswell and add some furniture

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CZghost
The hell good boy

Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 1622

Posted: 02-16-2017 10:10 AM

Of course I'd definitely convert that map for Quake 3 (and later for Quake Live) if you allow for all assets redistribution, and set you original map author and conversion done by me Or you can do it yourself, if you have (or can buy) a copy of Quake 3 (and possibly also Quake Live)

The only thing discussed will be the item placement. The map itself will be already beta and early release candidate and possibly very soon final. I'll try to keep most of original (and play with original compile settings). Then we'll see how well it will get rated on LvLworld Currently I have my own map in progress (designing) and I need to make some details in it. It's named Schöna (you should see a thread over here in LEM), currently latest download is Alpha 4.

Converting your map should be a piece of cake So I'm looking forward

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KENNITHH
Gibblet

Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 17

Posted: 02-24-2017 11:58 AM

Sorry for my late response but I've been pretty busy lately with personal stuff (medical , nothing too serious).

Would be great if you could port it to Quake3 ! And I believe once it's released, TrueCombat Elite will most likely release it aswell with some adjustments which I dont mind tbh, it can always be better or more suited to the game it gets ported to.

Now I've been fixing some small stuff like models/textures/shaders but it still needs a lot of work.

Mainly in optimizing as its very poorly optimized. I've made an attempt with hint brushes but I had to delete them because they were so bad.
If any of you are interested in taking a look, or checking for tips to optimize, I'd gladly take your advice in any of it and I'd be happy to upload the beta .map , files and pk3.

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12257

Posted: 02-24-2017 12:19 PM

I wrote a bit about hints:
viewtopic.php?t=3620

And some other things about how the engine works, optimizing, etc. (unfinished tutorial, links to some of the sections don't work)
http://www.robotrenegade.com/articles/i ... imization/

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KENNITHH
Gibblet

Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 17

Posted: 02-25-2017 04:06 AM

Very interesting stuff there Obsidian ! I've read countless of tutorials about hint-skipping and optimization from various Q3 engine games but I never completely understand them but these sites cleared up some things, I thank you for that. For example you should build your map according to the blocksize.
I do know how to use detail/structural brushes etc.. I also have a good idea about the hint brushes but almost 99% of the tutorials are about indoor maps whilest most maps I make are outside and have a rather more complexer layout than the tutorials ones.

Also another thing that confuses me is that there are tutorials where they say fill a door/window with the skip brush and block both sides with hint brush.
Another example is mp_jor1 (default SOF2 map) that uses hint brushes in a different way then most/all tutorials. (I have 333 fps constant on this map while on ziba it ranges from 180-333 but I know its a bad comparison cause I have more details)

I basicly based my hint brushes on the last 2 lines which did improve FPS alot but at the center of the map which is the outside area of the map , its just a crazy... This spot can be seen from various locations but should also be blocked from some locations as it should be impossible to actually see the portal from there. Guess I should focus on fixing that mainly.

EDIT: Soo , I decided to recopy over every brush from one map to another and fix it properly so it's better aligned to the blocksize , plus I can fix some bad brushes if there are, and make things more simplistic.

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12257

Posted: 02-25-2017 02:48 PM

You may not be able to do too much if you have a large open map with lots of windows. Hints aren't magic, if it's potentially possible for the player to see across the map from his current leaf node, the engine will draw all that he can potentially see. If you know you're going to make a fairly detailed map, you kind of have to plan for some of this beforehand.

Clean geometry does reduce a lot of triangles. Making sure edges are properly mitred, removing T-junc, overdraw, and other optimizations can significantly speed things up.

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KENNITHH
Gibblet

Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 17

Posted: 03-01-2017 12:37 PM

EDIT: I guess I have solved my own question but maybe theres another better way as it's not ideal (for this map) as it shows differences in the brushes next to them? I do not know... I made a part of that area func_group and added _lightmapscale 0.75 like in the worldspawn

Hey Obsidian, I took your advice and I noticed that I already improved FPS quite a bit (Constant 500fps+ without that much details yet though (models, detail brushes), but I do feel a huge difference. My fault was that I didn't really look at the grids and just looked at the floor map of the original Ziba and build the walls on top of it wanting it to be as original as possible.

Now before continueing on adding the details back and see what can be done better and not, I noticed some light leaks on some places, I tried multiple combinations of brushes and it doesnt seem to block the light from coming in eventhough its all properly mitred and caulked, atleast I think.. (Caulk Hull is not really an option here as its a 2 sided wall)

I read about the special texture+shader specificly to block light but I dont want to use it for perfomance reasons as it adds extra geometry. I also read about the walls having to be mitred properly which I had done before but maybe I'm still doing it the wrong way. Might be solve-able with func_groups perhaps?

I'd like to hear your opinion on this as you must be one of the most knowledgeable person on this. Besides Randy I guess

I added some examples of it in here if you' d be so kind once again to take a look.

http://imgur.com/a/MJ0nX

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dONKEY
The Afflicted

Joined: 14 Oct 2001
Posts: 558

Posted: 03-01-2017 11:06 PM

@KENNITHH,
Glad you solved the light leak.
On the point you made about a caulk hull not being relevant in this case as both sides of the wall are textured. That's not exactly true. The wall there can be detail, and textured on both sides, or indeed the caulked faces of two detail brushes can be place on top of each other, that's all fine. You can (and in many cases should) place a structural caulk brush directly over the detail brush. With a simple flat wall like the one shown above it's very easy. As long as the structural caulk brush does not protrude out of the detail brush, it will not show in game, but it will help to block vis.
Q3 maps are basically 3 maps drawn on top of each other. You have the real in game map, which is all detail brushes and patches. Then you have the entirely caulk map consisting of structural brushes. This is a simplified version of the detail map and fits fits a closely or as much as possible on top of the detail map. Quite often the blocked out alpha map forms the basis of the structural map.
Finally the third map is you clip brushes for smoothing and simplifying movement, that sits over the top of the other two maps.

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12257

Posted: 03-02-2017 08:43 AM

Caulk blocks light and is invisible. A caulk brush can overlap other brushes as long as none of it's faces are visible (hidden behind other textured brushes).

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KENNITHH
Gibblet

Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 17

Posted: 03-03-2017 02:45 PM

I have to say that sounds very interesting really. So for instance the wall I had light leaks on, I could make a big caulk wall over the 5 parts wall (border-wall-border-wall-border), make the 5 walls detail and make the caulk "z-fight"? And basicly do this over the whole map.

I thought I knew relatively alot about mapping by now, definitly since my first map mp_office (cs_office remake) but apparently I still have so much to learn.

Speaking of the light leaks, they aint really fixed , it looks very messy if I make it func_group and the same lightmapscale as you can see a difference between the func_group and non func_group next to it. I'm really so confused now.

So I tried selecting my structural brushes except the skybox and made it a func_group with lightmapscale 0.75 which does fix a few lightleaks but there are still big leaks.

Edit: You know they say caulk everything that you cant see ingame or dont want to render ingame.. Thats what I do, caulk every brush that can't be seen but when I decompile an original SOF2 map it's like a complete different story. And no light leaks there eventhough I feel like my brushes are made the same-ish.

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dONKEY
The Afflicted

Joined: 14 Oct 2001
Posts: 558

Posted: 03-05-2017 01:07 AM

What's on the outside of that wall?
Does the map have a sky box all around it? If so, does that have to be the case?
Original or industry maps (which tend to be older) will tend to be built in what many hobbyist mappers would describe as an incorrect manner. There are a many reasons for this: Pressures of time, older tool builds, less complex design, etc.
Things evolve, work flow improves, the applications themselves improve. In many cases, these are luxuries the pro level designers did not have.
Did you ever try to use the in game DooM3 version of Radiant? That would have made me go nuts trying to build DooM 3 with that bug ridden thing. And I guess that was the polished version for public release.

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KENNITHH
Gibblet

Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 17

Posted: 03-05-2017 02:23 AM

Thank you guys for helping me out, I really really apreciate it

On the outside of the wall it looks like this (got a feelings the wall is too thin, 16units):

The skybox is not one big skybox, its made per-area to improve performance at each place. (not sure if you can see it properly how I made it here)

Ahh no, I've only ever mapped for SOF2 with GTKRadiant 1.4 , since this year I switched to 1.6.5 with adding SOF2 compatibility.
I've added 2 more images from in the map editor.

Btw I also uploaded my beta .pk3 and .map on my dropbox account so anyone of you could try it out if wanted, but the problem is your game use common/caulk while SOF2 uses tools/_caulk so this might have to be edited (just auto replace tools/_ with common/ in the .map), aswell as our .shader file is in the shaders folder if you guys wanted check it out. I believe all textures that are in there are custom ones atm.

Download the beta .PK3 and Source .MAP

Also I noticed there was a duplicate of my skybox in another map I had which had different sun angles and was overwriting my new skybox shader. Now I removed the other one and it's overall better but still some walls have the light leaks. I must be making my brushes faulty.

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Quake3World.com | Forum Index | Level Editing & Modeling

Try to add "-filter" to your light stage compile line. This will filter (anti alias) your lightmaps and takes "no" additional compile time.

Hey, it looks amazing! Is it actually just a visual concept only for testing? Or it will be made into playable map? Because that looks really outstanding...

I wrote a bit about hints:viewtopic.php?t=3620And some other things about how the engine works, optimizing, etc. (unfinished tutorial, links to some of the sections don't work)http://www.robotrenegade.com/articles/i ... imization/

Caulk blocks light and is invisible. A caulk brush can overlap other brushes as long as none of it's faces are visible (hidden behind other textured brushes).

I wrote a bit about hints:
viewtopic.php?t=3620

And some other things about how the engine works, optimizing, etc. (unfinished tutorial, links to some of the sections don't work)
http://www.robotrenegade.com/articles/i ... imization/