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"Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 6] https://www.quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=53351 |
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Author: | Pat Howard [ 06-01-2017 09:14 PM ] |
Post subject: | "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 6] |
Highline by Pat Howard DOWNLOAD ALPHA 6 -pat |
Author: | Fjoggs [ 06-03-2017 03:48 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 2] |
Ran around for a bit, here's my quick thoughts. It's hard to get a good feel how a map plays by simply running around, so keep that in mind. First impressions: A lot of the weapons feels randomly placed, with not much thought behind them. They are also very clustered together, almost like you tried to fit every single weapon on the map for no apparent reason. Unless you don't want to entice spam in certain places, I'd for instance place GL where RG is now, to make it easy to spam someone who went for MH. I'm also not completely sold on RA placement. Only one way to get up there, and since RL is placed near that path, there's no easy way to RJ up there unless you already have one. The entire left side of the map feels like a powerstack for whoever's in control. They have access to: RG, RL, YA, RA, MH, SG and LG? Right side has YA, GL and PG Like I mentioned earlier, these are just my thoughts from running about for 10 mins. Maybe it feels better when you play someone. |
Author: | Pat Howard [ 06-03-2017 08:21 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 2] |
@fjoggs: thanks for replying. i actually have put a bit of thought into the weapon placement -- this map just happens to be a tough one to crack for some reason. or maybe i'm just out of practice i have thought about putting the GL up where the rail is now, but i am honestly not sure where else to put the rail in this map. the only other option imo is to put it in the low corridor where the LG is now, but i like the LG down there where it is not immediately useful, yet still encourages people to revisit the low corridor. i do think you're kind of right about the weapons being lopsided, so i am gonna move that nook that holds the LG down the hall a bit, closer to the YA room so that it doesn't feel like it's just sitting outside the RA room. i want it to feel more like it's between the two rooms in its own little place. i have played some 1v1 on this map and i like the RA mechanic. maps that have only one non-weapon-assisted way to RA have worked in the past. (think blood run, which was the main inspiration for this map.) it encourages a lot of rocket jumping which i think is cool. an earlier version of this map had a RL on the floor below the RA, but that felt like too much of a gimmick. a player could spawn on the floor in that room and rocket jump straight to the RA, then come back down and scoop up a health and be back at 100/100. thanks for your suggestions. try the new item placement when you get a chance. it's updated now. |
Author: | Fjoggs [ 06-04-2017 09:54 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 3] |
Hm, did you upload the wrong version? This one doesn't have any changes. |
Author: | Pat Howard [ 06-04-2017 10:36 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 3] |
shit, sorry. i used to be able to update the .pk3 in my dropbox and the link would just go to the new version. now it seems like dropbox creates a new link for every new file. it should be fixed now. |
Author: | Fjoggs [ 06-04-2017 11:51 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 3] |
As I go: Why are you placing ammo in pairs? Ammo placement in general feels off. (two packs of PG ammo feels overkill) (rocket ammo next to RG when the RL is a few meters away?) I'd swap Haste for something else. It's a bit of a boring powerup for FFA. Not convinced on the new RG placement. I would rather place it where haste is now, and then place PG where RG is. (Would give more incentive to visit the right side of the map) Parts of the map feels very claustrophobic, especially some of the hallways. Maybe widen them a bit? The MH/RL atrium also feels a bit cramped. (I think this is partially due to all the weird ledges and the overhang along the MH wall) |
Author: | Fjoggs [ 06-04-2017 11:56 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 3] |
GJ btw. Nice to see some new maps around these parts. |
Author: | Pat Howard [ 06-04-2017 12:19 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 3] |
yeah i haven't thought that much about the ammo i guess. it probably could use some tweaking. and i agree haste is kind of boring. i'll try other powerups. i am only concerned about tourney gameplay right now though. that map doesn't feel cramped to me. in fact it feels pretty big. the games are quite slow and it's hard to dominate the RA without giving up a bunch of other stuff to the down player. i don't think it's a bad thing though, as long as the map is balanced. wouldn't your RG position place the RG and the LG very close to each other on the ground level? that's something i was trying to avoid. it seems wrong to have the two most powerful guns right next to each other like that. i could put a RL where the LG is and swap all the guns around. Fjoggs wrote: GJ btw. Nice to see some new maps around these parts. cheers. thanks for the feedback. it really sucks making a map in a vacuum. |
Author: | Fjoggs [ 06-04-2017 01:02 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 3] |
Pat Howard wrote: wouldn't your RG position place the RG and the LG very close to each other on the ground level? that's something i was trying to avoid. it seems wrong to have the two most powerful guns right next to each other like that. i could put a RL where the LG is and swap all the guns around. It's not that close though, is it? There's also nothing but the LG down there, so going from new RG to LG means you're basically giving up a lot of items on the upper levels. Your call though, of course. I would like to see some form of a main weapon in that atrium though. Doesn't have to be RG. Maybe move the second RL (in RA room) further into the hallway that leads to PG/GL/YA room. Ammo in general is one of the things I feel people vastly underestimate in their maps, and it can play a big part in how a map plays. For instance, if you removed the LG ammo, you would force players to go to a low interest part of the map (nothing but LG basically) to simply restock. What was your idea behind the SG placement? Might be better suited elsewhere. (one of the corridors perhaps) |
Author: | Pat Howard [ 06-04-2017 01:23 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 3] |
interesting thought about the LG ammo. i usually like at least one LG ammo in my maps, but i should definitely think more about where i place it given the unique location of the LG in this case. the shotty was placed where it is because i just felt like there needed to be a weapon down low in the RA room. i felt like you'd be totally fucked if you spawned low in there and encountered anyone in the first few seconds. the shotty kind of sucks in this map in general, but it would definitely be more powerful if it was placed in a tighter area. plasma, on the other hand, is surprisingly good in this map. it's weird to feel ambivalent about whether you have the plasma or the lightning up in Quake, but that's often how i feel when playing this map. that's why i don't think the YA room is actually that weak with just the PG in it, because PG is so strong, and you also have the LG waiting right outside the room for you. the .map file is in the maps file of the pk3 so if there is any loadout you think would work and want to try you could edit it and send it back to me. only if you're interested, of course. |
Author: | Fjoggs [ 06-06-2017 01:51 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 4] |
Gonna take a look at the new version when I get the time. |
Author: | Fjoggs [ 06-06-2017 12:01 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 4] |
OK, played a quick round vs cpma bot (so slightly less tard than the normal bots :P ) I added my thoughts to your mapfile. These are basically my take on what I would change the map if I was making it. Hopefully you'll get something out of it. I may have gone a little overboard, but hey, I had some fun! Added some pictures where I felt it was necessary, and the new .mapfile. I like the changes you've made so far, and I wont harass you any more, so feel free to begin detailing. Map file: .map download link -Removed what I consider unnecessary complexity and annoyances surrounding the MH hallway. -Moved spawnpoint below RA to the PG corner (adds slightly more protection to an otherwise dangerous spawn. (Also makes it easier to quickly grab plasma and plasmaclimb up to RA) -Moved GL to the edge -Moved spawnpoint near YA to face YA and RL -Added SG to the hallway between MH and RG. Made that hallway slightly bigger to prevent players from force-picking it up. (Also moved spawnpoint slightly) -Moved spawnpoint that was at the entrance to RA from old RG spot, to the old RG spot. Also added SG ammo to the same place -Widened entrance to RA from said spot (where spawnpoint was before) -Added a small path, and cut the corner going from RL->YA/RG->RL. That cut off felt like it didn't really add anything but making it slightly harder to get across. -Moved spawnpoint in YA room to face YA, and not the wall. In general, you should try to place spawnpoints that aims towards something on the map, for instance the YA or the RG in that room. This helps players immedietaly recognize their surroundings -Added rocket ammo to LG hallway entrance at YA/RG -Added "windows" between RG YA and the JP. Also removed the ceiling. I feel like part of the reason why the map feels so claustrophobic, is all the low ceilings. The JP also feels more part of the map with the added windows. -Widened the entrances to the LG hallway. They felt too closed off for my liking, and had more of "side-hallway" feel. Hallways that see a lot of action should be slightly wider than the rest to prevent fights from being complete splashfests. This goes for entrances too. -Moved 1 25 health bubble from YA room to RL hallway, and made it slightly wider at one point to accommodate moving the spawnpoint to the corner. |
Author: | v1l3 [ 06-06-2017 12:19 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 4] |
I like it..r_speeds seemed a bit tough in spots though |
Author: | Fjoggs [ 06-07-2017 02:48 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 4] |
If you're short on time, then I'd suggest using the medieval set instead of the palace set. So much easier to use. Doesn't look as good naturally, but good enough. One thing I found to increase my efficiency when time was short, was to do the level in passes. First pass I'd add simple texturing and trims to the entire map. Second pass I'd do a slightly more in-depth detailing phase. Some of my maps never left that phase because I lost interest/time (Fjo3ctf1 being the best example, where a lot of the walls are high and flat etc) Third pass would be my final pass, and usually the longest. This way you'll have a map that you can release, even though you're not completely finished. (alternative being that you have two rooms that are done, and the rest of the map still in block phase) |
Author: | Pat Howard [ 06-29-2017 12:45 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 6] |
okay, guys. last update. the biggest thing here is there are now two jumps up to the RA, one from either side. i also moved the regen up to the high corridor in FFA mode and tweaked the MH room geo slightly. i think this map is good enough to finish, i'm just not sure when that will happen yet. i am probably gonna disappear into the ether for a while. if anyone has any more comments i will still be lurking around on occasion. thanks for the help. |
Author: | Fjoggs [ 06-29-2017 02:08 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 6] |
My brain is really struggling to reset after you swapped the rooms about. I ran around a bit, but didn't really have much to think of. Any changes I could see would involve changing a lot of stuff, and I don't think it's worth it really. I liked the changes you did, and think it could play out nicely. Maybe you'll finish it some day. See you around! EDIT: Oh and btw, your map (Trespass) was added to the Kenya Cup tournament! http://esreality.com/post/2878140/cpma-kenya-cup-2017/ |
Author: | v1l3 [ 07-01-2017 09:40 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 6] |
That's cause Trespass is a badass map map I love your maps btw, Pat. I play them to death. |
Author: | Pat Howard [ 07-02-2017 01:17 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 6] |
Thanks! |
Author: | Gargamel9000 [ 07-15-2017 05:57 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 6] |
Looks good, nice Job -as always! Cant wait to see all the cool deco-ideas... |
Author: | Obsessed [ 09-01-2017 12:58 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: "Highline" Tourney [ALPHA 6] |
Hi, Pat! The map is superb and slightly reminds me "Fury" (ztn2dm3)! The only desired thing - more vertical gameplay, but Highline is pure classic and it is hardly worth changing anything. I would have made additional (bot clip) steps to the RA, or, ideally, solid inclined paths, to give bots a chance to take it. I guess, they will not jump there. |
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