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Topic Starter Topic: Quake maps and mods for 2022

I'm the dude!
I'm the dude!
Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498
PostPosted: 12-22-2021 09:32 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Are we all playing the original Quake with the 25th anniversary updates?

Saw this video on YouTube highlighting some of the impressive WIP stuff coming out of the Quake community for 2022!



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surfaceparm nomarks
surfaceparm nomarks
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 1018
PostPosted: 12-23-2021 12:31 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I was watching this video this morning and it is astonishing what the community is able to put out. Also hats off to the video maker as gathering information like that with the given production quality is a great service to the community and a nice way to value all the hard work put into the maps, mods and engines.

It makes me wonder if a similar drive could emerge around entity+. Quake 3 has such a nice aesthetic as well and could produce very appaling visuals with the right designers involved. I guess it is missing the singler player nostalgia component though. I can't say I ever cared much about single player level design myself but I imagine Q3 would provide a great environment for it.



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Cool #9
Cool #9
Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 44131
PostPosted: 12-23-2021 01:15 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


obsidian wrote:
Are we all playing the original Quake with the 25th anniversary updates?

Sure did. I played the new episodes (including Honey) and played through all of the original Quake episodes as well as both missionpacks again :D

obsidian wrote:
Saw this video on YouTube highlighting some of the impressive WIP stuff coming out of the Quake community for 2022!

Truly impressive stuff. I didn't care much for the engines or mods shown, but the levels shown were amazing. It's a shame this style of level design (the grand and huge architecture that makes you feel really small) never caught on for Quake 3. Maybe it doesn't fit the multiplayer level design as much though. I must say the video itself is very well made as well. It's great to see so many dedicated people still producing such high quality content for a 25 year old game.

cityy wrote:
It makes me wonder if a similar drive could emerge around entity+. Quake 3 has such a nice aesthetic as well and could produce very appaling visuals with the right designers involved. I guess it is missing the singler player nostalgia component though.


When I first started work on EntityPlus I had hoped it would spark the interest of some of the existing Quake 3 mappers. They could apply all the experience and knowledge they had with Quake 3 mapping into building (single player) levels that didn't have any "social" prerequisites to play. Quake 3's popularity was already waning massively so the drive to build new multiplayer levels that probably wouldn't be played anymore anyway just wasn't there. Quake Live was probably in its worst form back then so Quake 3 was quickly losing players as well as mappers.

I'm afraid EntityPlus came just too late though. The community decay had already progressed too far for it to gain any traction. The initial responses were pretty enthusiastic and I saw lots of posts (many outside of Q3W as well) by people who thought it was a great idea, but for some reason it never really materialized into playable maps. It's a shame, because honestly I expected a little more out of it. EntityPlus would allow mappers to create Quake 3 maps that people could just download and play without having to find a populated server. Mappers could also make the step to RTCW or Doom 3, but with RTCW you're mostly stuck to the WW2 theme and with Doom 3 you'll have to learn new technologies to create custom content. I felt that Quake 3 was particularly nice because it didn't force you into a single theme, especially not with all of the great themed texture packs out there (like sock's Egyptian texture set).

But alas, it didn't really catch on. Deqer made his Carmack Towers level which was an absolutely amazing moment for me personally as well and it showed me that the vision I had for EntityPlus was actually a possibility. But after his map, nothing really materialized anymore other than what I built myself. I actually tried a few things, like the ep_survival map, which is a wave-based combat map without a story element or physical progress to it. I really made that one with the intent to show mappers they could basically build a multiplayer style arena and set it up with waves of incoming bots as a sort of singleplayer/multiplayer mash-up. It was Martinus who picked this up and converted his Shipyard 17 map to a similar single player setup. Sadly, Deqer and Martinus were (besides myself) the only two to actually release EntityPlus maps. I also released the ep_duckhunt maps to show a really low effort solution worked as well. Slap something together in an hour or two and you have something playable. But we're talking 2015 here and Quake 3 left the public's eye a long time ago. Even the original ep_example map that I included with the mod was a conversion of q3dm7 to show mappers they could simply take their existing deathmatch maps and relatively easily build something singleplayer-ey out of it.

So yeah, sometimes I get this mapping urge again and build an EntityPlus map myself (like the recently released Dimension of Evil map). I really only do that for myself though, because I still enjoy the process of creativity that goes into it. I really hold no hope that anyone else will ever make an EntityPlus map again. Quake 3 is just too far gone for a revival like that.




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\kill
\kill
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 947
PostPosted: 12-23-2021 04:59 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I as well have played the updated version of Quake 1, and it is fun as it flashes me back to my early 20's, to think of how far that gaming has come visually.

Regardless of whatever game is released, as I latch onto some of them, I still play Quake 3 every day, even if it is just for a quick 5 minutes against bots. It has just been a part of my life for so long.

I've always dreamed of the day that Quake 3 was completely redone, the levels staying the same, but looking like nowadays games. Real. I remember when Quake Live came out and how the levels looked better, and then the 64-bit exe, which has entirely changed it. Sure Quake Champions is a beaut, it being entertaining to look at the new version of the Campgrounds, but it still doesn't look real.

I remember when Doom 2016 came out, and being overcome by it because it was so beautiful. I could imagine a Quake 3 Arena, maybe just called 'Arena' using that Cyberpunk sort of Character building option to customize the way that your Gladiator looks? Can you imagine? I think that people would go insane over it...especially if there was a level-building option. I remember Reflex Arena coming out, and it unfortunately never took off. Perhaps someone can slap Carmack's butt and get him to go back to work on a futuristic Quake 3 Arena!




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I'm the dude!
I'm the dude!
Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498
PostPosted: 12-23-2021 12:29 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


While not using EntityPlus (which is all the more impressive), sock's Edge of Forever is an amazing example of what can be done on Quake 3 for a single player puzzle game.

I wish Quake 3 can see a resurgence, especially with mapping. Seeing these Quake 1 maps gives me the tingles and wants me to start working on stuff.



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Commander
Commander
Joined: 25 Mar 2002
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PostPosted: 12-27-2021 08:45 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I've been playing Quake One as well. Initially the new release, but I quickly dropped that and went back to quakespasm. The community is pretty active, though there is still a bit on an inferiority complex compared to the (old) DOOM community which sees more releases, big episodes, etc. Still, it's nice to see all the new maps, and the Trenchbroom editor is really slick.

The Q3 engine was always my favorite for mapping, but it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy isn't it? The more new maps and mods that are released, the more interest in mapping and playing, right?

Q3 has always had bots as well, so even if the game is "dead" online, you can still play new maps.

I don't know if it'll ever pick up again, but now that FPS concerns are pretty much irrelevant, we could certainly build some insane looking maps.

I too, always wanted an updated version of Quake 3 with better graphics, but that in itself is a problem. None of the modern engines really support modding, and the game would be DOA without mapping support.

Honestly, if we want to see a new, revitalized quake arena, we'd probably have to build it ourselves. I don't know if there's enough interest for that to happen, sadly.




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This is not Æon!
This is not Æon!
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 2222
PostPosted: 12-28-2021 05:29 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Quake 3s issue is that it doesn't have a regular singleplayer campaign/content. Sure bots are nice, keeps arena styled levels alive (simple ones, cause the bots aren't really that smart to be honest), but it stops there.

I would have loved if Q3 had some proper enemies that aren't these bots, like monsters and grunts like quake 1 and quake 2.

The only way I can see quake 3/quake live getting any resurgence is either from some kind of "Daikatana 1.3" project, or official from iD, but they sank the game with the abomination that is Quake Champions and to some extent now with the quake1 re-release, they probably want to channel as much "old"-Quake resources into that game.

It's really too bad, because quake3 is such a good base, with q3map2 and if you add some features to it, like ENT+.

scythe wrote:
Honestly, if we want to see a new, revitalized quake arena, we'd probably have to build it ourselves. I don't know if there's enough interest for that to happen, sadly.


Yea, 100%



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Gibblet
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Joined: 16 Dec 2020
Posts: 18
PostPosted: 02-23-2022 01:01 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


As for Quake 3, besides the occasional lvlworld release, most mapping probably happens in the defrag-mod community. The defrag world cup maps from 2021 and 2019 are definitely worth checking out for some eye candy:
https://ws.q3df.org/maps/?map=dfwc2019
https://ws.q3df.org/maps/?map=dfwc2021

The q3e based engines and improvements in custom NetRadiant also allow us to use very high poly models now without wrecking ingame performance. This hasn't been explored too much yet, but here's my working proof of concept of a very well performing map with 280k tris:
https://ws.q3df.org/map/A01-Race/
(This also was compiled without light stage but lightmaps baked in blender instead. See readme for more info.)

If you want to have a look at any of these defrag maps, here is an all-in-one package with the mod and client:
https://defrag.racing/help/get-started



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visual prowess
visual prowess
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1254
PostPosted: 04-23-2022 05:35 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


quBit wrote:
As for Quake 3, besides the occasional lvlworld release, most mapping probably happens in the defrag-mod community. The defrag world cup maps from 2021 and 2019 are definitely worth checking out for some eye candy:
https://ws.q3df.org/maps/?map=dfwc2019
https://ws.q3df.org/maps/?map=dfwc2021

The q3e based engines and improvements in custom NetRadiant also allow us to use very high poly models now without wrecking ingame performance. This hasn't been explored too much yet, but here's my working proof of concept of a very well performing map with 280k tris:
https://ws.q3df.org/map/A01-Race/
(This also was compiled without light stage but lightmaps baked in blender instead. See readme for more info.)

If you want to have a look at any of these defrag maps, here is an all-in-one package with the mod and client:
https://defrag.racing/help/get-started


I find it both comical and impressive that the vanilla engine can handle this many triangles using that version of q3map2 with FBX




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