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saturn
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PostPosted: 06-06-2005 01:33 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


i've never seen a video with Steve Jobs actually. After seeing that monkey Steve Ballmer jumping up and down at a MS conference I was traumatized for life.
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NCG_Mike
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PostPosted: 06-06-2005 01:54 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc05/
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Canis
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PostPosted: 06-06-2005 02:35 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


They had to go and announce another OS, right after releasing Tiger. Now there's nothing special about owning Tiger, and Leopard is the new thing to "have"....bah!!! Marketing, I hate (love) it! :D
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saturn
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PostPosted: 06-06-2005 02:38 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


anantech has a coverstory with photos:

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2438
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saturn
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PostPosted: 06-06-2005 02:39 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


lol, AT points out that AMD performs much better per watt on the 2nd page. Too bad, Jobs.
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Canis
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PostPosted: 06-06-2005 02:44 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm sure they'll start with Intel, but will have some AMD option in the future. AMD has some pretty good 64-bit solutions, and Apple wont be able to ignore them for too long...
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saturn
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PostPosted: 06-06-2005 02:48 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm not too sure about that. They probably signed a contract last year that they're exclusively tight together for the coming....10 years or something.
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Canis
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PostPosted: 06-06-2005 03:46 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Does this mean Macs will be marred by that god aweful "Intel-Inside" sticker? :puke:
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Psyche911
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PostPosted: 06-06-2005 04:23 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


saturn wrote:
lol, AT points out that AMD performs much better per watt on the 2nd page. Too bad, Jobs.


That's true if you're looking at the Pentium 4...which we're pretty sure they wont use. The Pentium M offers incredible power per watt, and with future multi-core processors using that core, it should be a great chip.

I'm just glad I haven't bought a Mac in the last year, and don't intend to for a long time.
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Psyche911
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PostPosted: 06-06-2005 04:27 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Canis wrote:
I'm sure they'll start with Intel, but will have some AMD option in the future. AMD has some pretty good 64-bit solutions, and Apple wont be able to ignore them for too long...


I disagree.
In addition to my point above, I have to question if the processor(s) will be an identical part to any "PC" processor. If it's not, then there's no reason that AMD could even produce a usable chip. And if they did, you'd need another line of motherboards and who knows what else.

Also, AMD could have the same trouble as IBM with producing large amounts of chips. Apple doesn't want to get shafted again by manufacturing problems. With Intel, they'll never have to worry about that. Intel could produce a hundred times more processors than Apple could ever sell.. (maybe an exageration, but you get my point)
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Psyche911
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PostPosted: 06-06-2005 04:29 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


One last thing:
OS X already runs on x86 hardware, and has since 10.0. Now that's interesting. I guess the rumors of an x86 build all these years were true. How about that... :)
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4g3nt_Smith
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PostPosted: 06-06-2005 06:22 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It explains why they kept Darwin up to date for x86 the entire time.
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ajerara
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PostPosted: 06-06-2005 10:32 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


a little solvent will take care of the Intel inside sticker.
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bag0shite
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PostPosted: 06-07-2005 10:46 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


These new Mactel boxes will allow you to install and run Windows too, if you're so inclined.
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4g3nt_Smith
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PostPosted: 06-07-2005 11:59 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I am, since that means a Triple boot of Longhorn, Linux, and OS X. Although, with OS X in its current state, and another update coming before longhorn, it may end up being a dual boot.
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Canis
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PostPosted: 06-07-2005 12:07 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


bag0shite wrote:
These new Mactel boxes will allow you to install and run Windows too, if you're so inclined.


I'm actually looking forward to that. I would very much like to have the best of both worlds running at full processing speed in one computer.
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bag0shite
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PostPosted: 06-07-2005 12:38 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


4g3nt_Smith wrote:
I am, since that means a Triple boot of Longhorn, Linux, and OS X. Although, with OS X in its current state, and another update coming before longhorn, it may end up being a dual boot.


I gotta say m$ are gonna have to pull something real spectacular out of the hat with Longhorn. Pressure's on. Which is all good for us.
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saturn
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PostPosted: 06-07-2005 01:06 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Intel-OS X will only run on propietary Mac hardware, otherwise it could be a big threat to MS Longhorn by 2006/2007.

Imagine Apple gaining lead over Microsoft in an OS war....woaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Canis
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PostPosted: 06-07-2005 01:13 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


saturn wrote:
Intel-OS X will only run on propietary Mac hardware, otherwise it could be a big threat to MS Longhorn by 2006/2007.

Imagine Apple gaining lead over Microsoft in an OS war....woaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


At the beginning, yes....licensing will be the next big step, to absolutely cream windows. Just imagine the windows emulation capabilities Apple could implement. With WINE as a solid windows emulation base in unix, they could get practically every bit of software running in the Mac OS, with SDKs for smooth transitions to native mac applications. Then it would be an all out, fair war over who has the more appealing and usable product instead of who has the most software and other third-party infrastructure behind it. I'm guessing this wouldnt happen for another 5-10 years though. Apple still has to build the base and the credibility for such a leap.
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bag0shite
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PostPosted: 06-07-2005 02:18 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The first set of benchmarks comparing OSX on *86 to whatever version of Windows is available at the time, oops, I mean XP, will be very interesting :icon31:

Other than that I think m$ are too far ahead for Apple to go head to head with them. Apple need to come up with another killer device, but something better than the iPod which every household will need (think set-top TV box with broadband TV delivery and wireless music streaming) before m$, running whatever Pentium M derivative (and Pentium M is the jewel in the Intel crown since in a cruel twist of fate Intel are having to use AMDs *86-64 extensions) which I'm certain Apple are capable of doing.
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Dave
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PostPosted: 06-07-2005 02:21 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I hate people who violently resist change so I will try not to be one of them, but I will be critical of Apple's transition.



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ajerara
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PostPosted: 06-08-2005 10:40 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


It seems like good news to me except I would prefer AMD to Intel, but the dual boot option is great for gamers that like to use macs. Getting cheaper vid cards, too. No more gouging mac users for the same cards that windows people use for half the price.
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NCG_Mike
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PostPosted: 06-08-2005 11:08 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


No more Mac version of Lotus Notes needed! Can't be all bad.

I expect we'll have our development box in a couple of weeks, if all goes to plan.
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4g3nt_Smith
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PostPosted: 06-09-2005 11:22 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


*Eagerly awaits someone to leak the x86 preview of Tiger*
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NCG_Mike
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PostPosted: 06-09-2005 11:51 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Problem is that you won't be able to run it, as far as I know. It requires specific hardware due to a lack of drivers and so on.
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4g3nt_Smith
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PostPosted: 06-09-2005 12:15 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Well, I assume the driver set will be similar/identical to Darwin ofr x86, and I wouldn't mind having it to see what kind of lock has been put on the installer to prohibit joe user from installing it on his crappy dell, as opposed to his "Intellimac P4"
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NCG_Mike
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PostPosted: 06-09-2005 12:24 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yeah, I also assume the drivers are the same as Darwin X86 (OSX86®). I've not looked at the CVS tree but I don't imagine there're many options.

Installing the OS on the Mac and transplanting the drive might be possible, assuming you can solve the driver issue. You'd have to make sure rlogin was turned on first!
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4g3nt_Smith
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PostPosted: 06-09-2005 02:45 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


http://www.opendarwin.org/hardware/

It runs on quite a lot of hardware, actually.
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Dave
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PostPosted: 06-09-2005 07:09 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


My guess is someone will have xp running on one of these boxes before os x running on a garden variety pc. MS wont give a rip if someone gets xp going on it, but apple will sue the first guy who bypasses any restrictions they set to prevent people from booting os x on a Dell. Any box booting OS X will also have stricter hardware requirements, so as long as your Dell has mac-unsupported hardware on it, it wont work anyway for lack of drivers.



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Dave
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PostPosted: 06-09-2005 07:11 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


4g3nt_Smith wrote:
http://www.opendarwin.org/hardware/

It runs on quite a lot of hardware, actually.


Great HCL. ati and nvidia cards are listed to both work and not work
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4g3nt_Smith
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PostPosted: 06-09-2005 08:18 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Dave wrote:
4g3nt_Smith wrote:
http://www.opendarwin.org/hardware/

It runs on quite a lot of hardware, actually.


Great HCL. ati and nvidia cards are listed to both work and not work


Its community-maintained, so its most likely hit and miss on the ones listed in both.
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NCG_Mike
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PostPosted: 06-10-2005 02:47 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


None the less, given the move to Intel CPUs, I expect more interest arising from the Linux community who will have a UNIX OS with a GUI :-D

Good driver support can't be a bad thing really but I do feel Apple are taking a huge risk as we all know there'll be a hack to get it going on regular PCs.

Saying that, I'll still buy a MacPC (OSX86®) because it'll be good kit that's tried and tested. As my girlfriend says to me (regarding clothes usually), "If you buy cheap, you buy twice". She's Chinese, which makes sense on the money front!
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NCG_Mike
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PostPosted: 06-10-2005 03:13 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I've spent some time thinking about the implications of moving my code from PPC to Intel...

At Agfa, where I'm currently working, I've developed a Cocoa app to measure spot colors and save them as ICC profiles. A lot of the code is cross-platform stuff written on Windows and, oddly, first used on the Mac. You should see the compiler warnings from the Windows code we have to compile with GCC!

Writing the ICC profiles means a bit of endian work as the code currently is big endian for the Mac, though there's code there for Intel CPUs. Means a #define to force GCC on Intel down the same path as WIN32 code. No big deal.

The measuring devices we have are another issue as one of the devices is driven by a framework from the manufacturer. Obviously, we need an Intel compiled framework for that framework. Given Gretag's Mac work...

Also, I've written a lot of "float == 0.0f" type code, which will break on GCC Intel. There's a compiler flag which can spot that kind of thing, thank God. I'll have to make a macro to give a tolerance for the comparison (+/- 0.01). I've seen this behavior in the Windows built code and have experienced it before but... who imagined Apple would change CPU! I didn't.

At the moment, I'm writing code to create screens for the Agfa RIP. It's essentially cross-platform XML (read as "Apple plist") using xerces as a parser (my C++ code) rather than the direct Cocoa calls (one line). That's all fine but I have to generate a binary file as an export for the postscript system. I'll have to remember, "htons" and "htonl" are my friends!

FWIW, I've gone through this before, switching from NeXT 68K systems to NeXT (HP Vectra) Intel P60 systems. It's not for free but it's not rocket science. It's mostly irritating as I'm really trying to solve business requirements, not OS crap.

Most Cocoa apps would take a day or so to "port". Carbon (HIView) apps longer and PowerPlant (Adobe/Macromedia) are going to need a lot of work. I wouldn't be surprised if Adobe/Macromedia said, "Just run the Windows version". Their code base is, to be frank, "legacy". I would know given my background! I can say Macromedia are smart guys (and good fun too!). The Adobe (PS) guys seem to be, well, anal.

It's quite a worry at the moment for me as I'm not sure how valuable my skills will be against a million MFC monkeys. I'm hoping that I can still survive because I can deploy quicker than a Windows app.

I can do WIN32 code but I don't want to. It's not very interesting. I've done a fair bit of middle-ware (stock trading) and service level (daemon) work. It's not what I want to do though...
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zeeko
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PostPosted: 06-10-2005 04:17 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


*woosh*



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PostPosted: 06-11-2005 01:59 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


OK Mike, sounds like it's not exactly a disaster for mac software then, but seriously all we really want to know is how long it'll take you to recompile Only Mortal (and add Enemy Territory support) :icon25:

cheers
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