Alleged swatting hoax ends in the death of a father of two

[Scourge]

And he's out.

[SOAPboy]

And he's out.

When was he ever "in"?

[Transient]

LOL

[Scourge]

And he's out.

When was he ever "in"?

Out of attempts.

[Transient]

Out of his mind.

[YourGrandpa]

And he's out.

There's only so many ways you can make a point. Then it's time to play wach-a-nerd.

[Doombrain]

Everyone got your point

[losCHUNK]

You don't want to discuss what information is available through official sources and instead rely on the narrative in your head still ?. Why can't you accept that based on the information the police made an error ?, I've laid out the events. Instead you wanna talk about 'if he...' and 'or they...'.

Who's pretending ?, you're trying to say that the police can't deal with a somewhat irregular yet highly publicised and routine occurrence in a sensible way. Over a 5 year period close to 15% of teams would have had experience with this situation n all. Conservative number too, most forces have to few officers to create a team so rely on shared resources.

I've said from the start, if the officer is at fault he should be charged. How'd you miss that? At least I'm willing to wait for an investigation before I start blaming the people who protect and serve. And 400 incidents a year isn't shit. Especially when the majority are identified before they turn into anything because most people are not bright enough to carry out the lie.

The same way you missed where I said we're basing it on the info available in pretty much every reply ?. So based on the info we can finally agree that the fault lay with the police dept ?, cos you know, it's the public place to scrutinise and we're not gonna base it on 'ifs' and 'ors'.

[YourGrandpa]

Post a link to the sources you are citing.

[losCHUNK]

You provided the video and in that link there was also an official police statement saying as much.

[Doombrain]

BAWWWWKKKKK!!!!

[losCHUNK]

[lvlshot]https://media.giphy.com/media/tJeGZumxDB01q/giphy.gif[/lvlshot]

[YourGrandpa]

When I originally watched the video on my phone I thought the officers were in the doorway of the home and the video was being shot from across the street. I can see now after watching on a larger screen, the officers were actually across the street. (My mistake. I apologize for arguing from the wrong perspective.) That certainly changes the threat level for the officers. This is also a situation where a non-lethal solution could have been used if a viable option was available to the officer at the time. But now that I've watched the video over and over I still can't make sense out of how/why Finch raised his hands that way. It does look very similar to someone who is trying to quickly raise a pistol to shoot.

All things considered, the officer was in a very difficult situation where action was required. If he was not issued a non-lethal option that would work at range, he had no other choice but to use lethal force. However, the family could probably make a case against the department citing some form of negligence.

[Transient]

Holy shit, he admitted he was wrong.

[seremtan]

It does look very similar to someone who is trying to quickly raise a pistol to shoot.

or like someone thinking "WTF? why are there cops out here?"

[YourGrandpa]

No, not at all like that.

[seremtan]

so a guy who's surprised to find cops outside his house reacts identically to a man totally unsurprised to find cops outside his house

interesting

[Doombrain]

Fair enough, have to give props if he admitted he was in the wrong....

[YourGrandpa]

so a guy who's surprised to find cops outside his house reacts identically to a man totally unsurprised to find cops outside his house

interesting

The police were out outside yelling commands. This wasn't a "surprise". It looks like Finch quickly raises both of his hands, bringing them together out in front of him as if he was attempting to point a pistol towards the officers. Common sense tells you if someone points a gun at you, you shouldn't make any sudden moves. If he lacked common sense, he should have at least known what to do from the thousands of cops/gangster movies we've all seen.

[Captain]

On a totally unrelated note, what's gwamps' address?

[Transient]

[losCHUNK]

When I originally watched the video on my phone I thought the officers were in the doorway of the home and the video was being shot from across the street. I can see now after watching on a larger screen, the officers were actually across the street. (My mistake. I apologize for arguing from the wrong perspective.) That certainly changes the threat level for the officers. This is also a situation where a non-lethal solution could have been used if a viable option was available to the officer at the time. But now that I've watched the video over and over I still can't make sense out of how/why Finch raised his hands that way. It does look very similar to someone who is trying to quickly raise a pistol to shoot.

All things considered, the officer was in a very difficult situation where action was required. If he was not issued a non-lethal option that would work at range, he had no other choice but to use lethal force. However, the family could probably make a case against the department citing some form of negligence.

I don't agree fully with what you're saying, I lean towards more Semens thinking than yours but I think we've found enough common ground.

For what it's worth I thought the same as you when watching the video, thinking Finch raised both his hands whilst making a gun gesture but can't make it out for sure. The police statement to the news was saying that he just lowered his hands after raising them which is what I was basing the information on. The police were also at the address long before that footage was shot.

When watching the video, If he raised his hands like a gun I completely agree that he was being a silly shit whilst having a gun pointed at you. I was thinking of a situation like "wtf are you guys doing ?, youre at my house pointing guns at me !" *raises hand like a gun*. Still don't think it's enough for a clear danger though.

[SOAPboy]

so a guy who's surprised to find cops outside his house reacts identically to a man totally unsurprised to find cops outside his house

interesting

The police were out outside yelling commands. This wasn't a "surprise". It looks like Finch quickly raises both of his hands, bringing them together out in front of him as if he was attempting to point a pistol towards the officers. Common sense tells you if someone points a gun at you, you shouldn't make any sudden moves. If he lacked common sense, he should have at least known what to do from the thousands of cops/gangster movies we've all seen.

Its still a bad shooting
The cops did wrong
The guy shouldnt have had to worry about flinching around a little. They were at a point where NON LETHAL could have been used.

Thanks for admitting you and didnt watch the video right, but its still a bad shooting and the dude didnt "do something wrong".


Same shit with drunk guy being murdered. Dude was DRUNK PULLING UP HIS PANTS BEGGING TO NOT BE SHOT.

This is only slightly less bad because its possible the cops were just shitty trained and reacted poorly and it wasnt just wanting to shoot someone.



Id love to see how you react in that situation.

[YourGrandpa]

The dude made a highly questionable move that resulted in his death. As tragic as that is, I believe the officer was operating well with-in guidelines.


How would I react? As the officer or the citizen?

As the citizen...
I would probably get a phone call asking me what was is going on before officer number one ever reached my house. If not. I'd come out slowly with my hands up, anticipating and obeying the officer's commands. Because I'd have no clue why they were there, but I'd know it was pretty serious if they had their guns drawn.

As the officer...
It would greatly depend on how much information I had about the situation and the events leading up to the interaction. If I thought the guy had a gun, already killed someone and was planning on killing others, I would have shot him where he stood if he presented his hands to me like that.

[Bacon]

The dude made a highly questionable move that resulted in his death. As tragic as that is, I believe the officer was operating well with-in guidelines.

Highly questionable? Like Daniel Shaver playing twister/simon says then getting shot in a hallway? Keep licking those boots.