no coronavirus thread ?

[Transient]

You're not going to stop your neighbor from getting covid by being vaccinated. If you're worried about your neighbor, encourage that person to get vaccinated.

Not everybody can get vaccinated, like those with compromised immune systems. That's kind of the whole point of the vaccine: herd immunity. :dork:

[Transient]

Just so everyone knows, gwamps has zero medical or scientific knowledge.

Carry on.

What you are sighting

I think you meant 'citing', smart guy. :olo:

[Eraser]

The Netherlands has an overall 70%+ vaccination rate. 80% of the people over 12 are vaccinated. If you still believe the unvaccinated are the problem, you're a bit naive. The problem is vaccine effectiveness decrease over time and doesn't stop infection or the spread. You're not going to get any population to the same immunity level at the same time. Therefore, no amount of vaccines, lock downs, masks or distancing is going to eradicate this virus. It is going to be endemic.

The unvaccinated are the problem. There currently are 331 COVID patients in Dutch IC's currently. Of those 331 there are 94 vaccinated people. Considering the group of vaccinated people is about 5 to 6 times larger than the group of unvaccinated people, yet there's more then twice the number of IC hospitalizations from that smaller group, it's undeniable the vaccine is keeping people out of hospitals.

The vaccine doesn't keep COVID away, but it does reduce the chance of hospitalization by 95%. And while it's true the vaccine loses effectiveness over time (hence the booster shots) it's completely irrational to argue the vaccine doesn't work.

And yes, COVID will be endemic at some point, no one ever denied this. The thing is that we don't want people to not get COVID at all, we don't want everyone to get life threatening complications at the same time because that overflows the hospitals.

Edit; this chart shows it. Sourced from the RIVM, the Dutch CDC. Blue is vaccinated, green partially vaccinated, yellow unvaccinated. Top group is population, middle group is hospitalized, bottom group is IC. Each figure represents 1%

[lvlshot]https://i.redd.it/3dnb9w9zn7181.jpg[/lvlshot]

Edit2: what this chart also doesn't show is that a significant portion of the vaccinated people that are in IC elderly or people with underlying conditions.

[Transient]

Vaccinations are nothing like seat belts.

You're right, not wearing a seatbelt won't suddenly make everybody's seatbelts around me unbuckle. Meanwhile, unvaccinated people are getting other people sick left and right.

[Whiskey 7]

............. the ADF (Australian Defense Force) just rounded up 38 individuals that they claim are "close cases" and transported them to one of their covid camps...........

Evidence please to support would be nice.

OT but re what is new in your little world? I'm off up north for a few days, thankfully...

[Transient]

Where are the hospitals being overwhelmed these days?

Minnesota.

[Transient]

https://gizmodo.com/covid-19-linked-to- ... 1848111380
Covid-19 Linked to Four Times Higher Risk of Stillbirth During Delta Era, CDC Finds

Studies have suggested for some time that covid-19 is more dangerous for pregnant people. They’re more likely to experience serious illness, death, and delivery complications. This new research, published by the CDC last week, provides a closer look at the risk of stillbirth posed by the coronavirus, particularly the Delta variant.

LOL these idiots who refuse to get vaccinated are dieing off, becoming sterile and having stillbirths. They're going to Darwinize themselves into irrelevance. :olo:

[YourGrandpa]

Where are the hospitals being overwhelmed these days?

Minnesota.

Your story says the national guard is being brought in to help out in nursing homes.

Another article explains shortages....

"Unlike Minnesota's worst surge in fall 2020, hospital beds aren't the issue this time -- 1,381 people are hospitalized, compared with a peak of nearly 1,900 last fall -- it's a lack of hospital staff.

The staffing shortage is "more permanent and structural," Minnesota Health Commissioner Jan Malcolm told reporters earlier this week. Burnout and resignations have contributed to the issue."

Maybe you should source your material a bit, instead of looking for the first piece of confirmation bias you can find.

[YourGrandpa]

............. the ADF (Australian Defense Force) just rounded up 38 individuals that they claim are "close cases" and transported them to one of their covid camps...........

Evidence please to support would be nice.

OT but re what is new in your little world? I'm off up north for a few days, thankfully...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-21/ ... /100637600

About 2:40 into the video or roughly 4 pages down under Mr. Gunner's picture.

[YourGrandpa]

The unvaccinated are the problem. There currently are 331 COVID patients in Dutch IC's currently. Of those 331 there are 94 vaccinated people. Considering the group of vaccinated people is about 5 to 6 times larger than the group of unvaccinated people, yet there's more then twice the number of IC hospitalizations from that smaller group, it's undeniable the vaccine is keeping people out of hospitals.

The vaccine doesn't keep COVID away, but it does reduce the chance of hospitalization by 95%. And while it's true the vaccine loses effectiveness over time (hence the booster shots) it's completely irrational to argue the vaccine doesn't work.

And yes, COVID will be endemic at some point, no one ever denied this. The thing is that we don't want people to not get COVID at all, we don't want everyone to get life threatening complications at the same time because that overflows the hospitals.

Edit; this chart shows it. Sourced from the RIVM, the Dutch CDC. Blue is vaccinated, green partially vaccinated, yellow unvaccinated. Top group is population, middle group is hospitalized, bottom group is IC. Each figure represents 1%

Edit2: what this chart also doesn't show is that a significant portion of the vaccinated people that are in IC elderly or people with underlying conditions.

Again, the unvaccinated are a temporary problem along with many vaccinate during a seasonal outbreak. Mandates and the associated medical procedure are a PERMANENT problem that won't go away. So not only will you always have covid, you will always have a government that you have given the power to make personal heath choices for you.

[Transient]

Your story says the national guard is being brought in to help out in nursing homes.

Another article explains shortages....

"Unlike Minnesota's worst surge in fall 2020, hospital beds aren't the issue this time -- 1,381 people are hospitalized, compared with a peak of nearly 1,900 last fall -- it's a lack of hospital staff.

Maybe you should source your material a bit,

I did. Lack of hospital staff = overwhelmed hospital. :dork:

It's literally in the title of the article: Minnesota Calls Up National Guard as Covid-19 Overwhelms Hospitals :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork:

instead of looking for the first piece of confirmation bias you can find.

:dork: :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork: :dork:

[YourGrandpa]

People are leaving due to mandates and bias regulations. You can't impose vaccinations on people that don't want them and then complain because you don't have the staff when they leave. What kind of fucktardary do you subscribe to? You are literally blaming a problem on a problem you've created.

[Transient]

Mandates are making all the nurses in Minnesota quit? Are you kidding me? I guess I'll have to take you word for it since you didn't sight your source. :rolleyes:

[Eraser]

Again, the unvaccinated are a temporary problem along with many vaccinate during a seasonal outbreak. Mandates and the associated medical procedure are a PERMANENT problem that won't go away. So not only will you always have covid, you will always have a government that you have given the power to make personal heath choices for you.

Maybe the unvaccinated are a temporary problem, but it's an acute problem with enormous implications. Problems of this magnitude can only be solved by taking measures that have far reaching consequences. Sure, we need to stay alert that the government doesn't overreach, but currently, the opposite is actually happening here. The government doesn't do enough. Hospitals are struggling here to keep up. And yes, there are some things that require long term solutions, but right now we need to act to prevent our healthcare system from getting fully clogged up.

One of the most heard complaints here is that our government acts too late and not strongly enough. The government is trying real hard not to upset anti-vaxxers and is really, really reluctant to impose measures that only affect unvaccinated people. There isn't a single restriction or mandate or law or whatever here that forces people to get vaccinated. Employers cannot demand employees be vaccinated. The gov't is relictantly moving into the direction of a "2G" model (only allow people who were vaxxed or had COVID the past 6 months to enter) QR codes, but that's very limited. Bars and restaurants can even choose to stick to the 3G model (also allow people with negative tests to enter).

You seem to forget, Gramps, that not every country works like the US of A, and what may be true for Australia is not true for The Netherlands. One thing that really problamizes this situation is that most anti-vaxxers base themselves on misinformation or a misunderstanding of how things work. Most of their arguments can be shown to be factually incorrect. But yet,.it's them who act like the rest of the world is crazy. It's incredibly politically incorrect to say, but anti-vaxxers mostly have it just wrong, but they (a small minority) keep the rest of the population hostage.

[Doombrain]

Hey, thanks for your incredibly uninformed assumptions and comments. You never fail to bring the stupid.

GG.

Don’t pull that shit with me, Brian.

You’re wrong and I guess no amount of hard fact is going to change your mind. You’ve already gone down the “a report on the internet proves etc etc” multiple times. There’s no talking to people like you. Mazdas right, you need rounding up and fucking shooting :olo:

[raw]

What dont these weapons understand about the load on health systems?

The very first point they argue is it “wOn’t stoP you gettiING a CoViD vIrUs”.

I don’t think I’ve seen any paper or article over the two years that have EVER said you’re safe from contracting it after getting vaccinated. Jesus fucking Christ I swear to black Jesus we’d be better off in a two tier society for 10 years while the trumpers all fuck off.

:olo: :olo: :olo:

[raw]

People are leaving due to mandates and bias regulations. You can't impose vaccinations on people that don't want them and then complain because you don't have the staff when they leave. What kind of fucktardary do you subscribe to? You are literally blaming a problem on a problem you've created.

This makes absolutely no sense! Almost every child in America attending a public school is REQUIRED to be immunized. How is this seen as anything more than another vaccine requirement on the existing list? Do you feel we need to remove all vaccine requirements?

[xer0s]

Well, Gramps got what he wanted. He threw the bait, set the hook, and now you’re all arguing with a square-top water head…

[raw]

:olo:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ruce-boros

[Captain]

I found gwamps :olo:

[Eraser]

Credit where credit's due: I'm surprised he got the than/then thing right

[Captain]

I think we can chalk that up to a statistical anomaly, like the perimeter of gwamps' cranium.

[Transient]

Scietists :olo:

[Eraser]

So it's official, I've got the 'vid.
Last week my eldest two kids got tested positive so we were already quarantined. I got a fever Monday and got tested yesterday, which came back positive today.

So yeah, GrandPa is entirely right. Vaccines don't help at all :olo:

[Doombrain]

Lol. U ok tho?